Understanding why I was kicked from my static, and how to improve.

To begin, I have only been playing XIV for about 5 months total. I played WoW for about 10 years before that, and that time includes Mythic raiding and even older stuff like AQ40. I played XIV for about 3 or 4 months until the end of the final tier of Ish. Resto. (mostly MSQ and crafting), then took a break until about a month-and-a-half ago. I joined this static 2 weeks ago for a trial run. I was clear that I was new and did not have BiS gear (my weapon is only i500) or savage experience, and the static leader indicated that they just wanted to prog E9-12S before EW dropped so that we could learn to work together as a group and get some experience. The group was billed as mid-core, if it matters. The static itself is also relatively young, although it does include some vets, so it seemed like a good opportunity to learn along with the rest of the group and, personally, to learn from more experienced players.

Week one went, I thought, very well. I was getting along with everyone, and I managed to learn and clear both E9S and E10S multiple times. My parses were not good, only about 8% of total damage, but everyone told me to focus on learning the mechanics and to practice my rotation in my off time, and no one indicated that my damage was bad enough to be a deal breaker.

This week we started progging 11S, and it didn't go as well. We had multiple members misunderstand mechanics, including myself, and on the last evening I was with them everyone seemed a little sour in general. There were no heated words exchanged or anything like that, these are nice and chill people, but it was obvious that most of us were feeling tired and frustrated.

Today I received a message from the static co-lead, asking me to leave the static. The reasons cited were that my damage was so bad that it seemed like I didn't know my class, and my inability to adjust on the fly if the boss was out of position or if a critical member was dead and I had to pick up something I would normally not have to. Additionally, I was told that I was not receptive to criticism of my play, and that it seemed like I was not putting in the same effort as the rest of the group. I was caught off guard by much of this, as I felt my performance during the previous week had been a good indicator of what I am generally capable of.

So, long story short (too late), I am left wondering if A) they really wanted someone who was already up to speed and could parse better and knew the fights, B) someone didn't like me or something I said and tore me down in private instead of speaking to me, or C) I really am not good at taking feedback and just ignorant of the signals people were sending me to change my behaviour. I honestly don't know what to think right now, so if you have experience with this kind of thing I would appreciate any insight. Thanks for taking the time to read this giant novel of a post.

It was most likely a combination of A and C, however I don’t know you personally so i can’t for sure say C.

That being said, we’re 2 weeks out from early access of the new expansion and you have an i500 weapon, idk what the rest of your gear looks like but you can buy high quality 510 gear from the market board and augment it to 520. It’s not the best gear but the stat gains are worth it. Relic, while being best in slot, is a massive grind that wouldn’t be worth it this late IMO, or you could learn the Diamond weapon fight and get a 525 weapon from there.

Your weapon is the most important piece of gear you can keep up to date, the weapon damage (or magic damage) on it effects everything you do, both healing and dps. Low weapons heal for less making you and your coheal have to work harder.

Learning the fight, especially e11s, is very important as well. In FFXIV all fights are scripted with some very minor rng of who gets what mechanics sometimes. E11s compounds this by also adding in fire lightning and light elements to his attacks, which changes the follow up mechanic to many of his attacks, being able to read that as well as adjust on the fly is very important.

It could be a number of things, unfortunately I don’t know you or your static to give a definitive answer but at the very least I would say if you plan to raid more before endwalker work on your gear and brush up on fights using guides.

While I don't think this is the right section for this sorta thing.. and the forums aren't a blog as well..

Were you tanking? Healing? DPS? Assuming you were tanking from, well, tank section, and you've listed gunbreaker as your main class.
As far as performance.. Telling someone "go practice your rotation" is, in my opinion, a subtle way of saying your damage is low / bad. Now, if all the person(s) looking at numbers saw was your numbers, and didn't factor in things like your gear, comfort with your played class, comfort in that fight, etc, then frankly eff em.

Most ""mid-core"" groups don't seem to get what being "mid-core" means. As far as learning from the group, can you identify areas in which you feel you're lacking? Are you able to maximize uptime to the best of your abilities? Are you keeping your GCD spinning and not standing/moving whilst not using any GCDs? Are you stopping your GCDs while a mechanic is happening to try and see what's going on?

Nothing I see for you is open to the public so I can't just dig and find these answers myself, nor could anyone frankly, so again hearing just from you is only half the story. Especially this bit: "The reasons cited were that my damage was so bad that it seemed like I didn't know my class, and my inability to adjust on the fly if the boss was out of position or if a critical member was dead and I had to pick up something I would normally not have to. Additionally, I was told that I was not receptive to criticism of my play, and that it seemed like I was not putting in the same effort as the rest of the group."
My takeaways are:
>Assuming you were off tank; the main tank died to stupid and you werent as fast as they wanted in picking up aggro
>Damage can be factored in with lesser gear, but also were you breaking combos (i.e. breaking your 1-2-3 with a ranged GCD)? were you stopping your rotation at any point?
>Communication issues could be at play. They could have said something which to them was a point of "do this please," but that might not've been understood.
>How much research into the fights have you put, i.e. read guides on the fight(s) and the timeline of mechanics? Or were you just adapting to things as they happened?

Finally... its ultimately not that big of a deal if one static says their goodbyes. Just find another. But if the next one has similar feedback to you / your gameplay, maybe some introspection's called for. You say you're not *that* experienced with 14 playtime-wise, so having these moments of learning / growth are fine. Don't take it to heart such that you're disparaged from trying to find another group. Especially a ""midcore"" group. More often than not people aren't honest with themselves in what they really want. If they weren't happy with how you performed, take the time to see what useful insights could be gleaned from their feedback versus your gameplay, and look for a static that would be willing to help you improve.

Right off the bat, if I was trialing you and you had an i500 weapon, then that would be a massive mark against you. Your probably didn't mean it this way, but it suggests you're either lazy or don't care about making a good impression. That said, I would question you on it pretty quickly.

As for the other stuff, I don't know since I didn't play with you. Did you research the fights ahead of time? How extensively? Do you, in fact, know your rotation?

Without knowing a lot more, all I can say is take their feedback to heart and answer this question yourself.

Sorry about the lack of clarity, yes, I am playing GNB and was tanking in the static. I had this in my original post but had to trim it for length.

Thank you both for your comments. Just to reply to a few things:
-My overall iLVL is now 520. I wasn't aware I could buy/aug a 520 weapon and no one suggested it to me.
-I put several hours into learning each fight beforehand, including watching the specific strategy videos suggested, talking through mechs with the other members, and watching additional videos to see how other people were doing it.
-For my rotation, I am aware that keeping your GCD rolling is #1 priority, and I do my best to always try to do that and maintain uptime during mechanics. I rarely fat finger a combo, but since GNB is more of a priority based job I certainly make the wrong decisions sometimes, due to lack of experience or panicking if a mech is going badly.

At the end of the day I do understand that this isn't the end of the world, and I certainly have a lot of room for improvement. I guess I should just accept that I will never really know the reason and move on.

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Originally Posted by GerPronouncedGrr

Sorry about the lack of clarity, yes, I am playing GNB and was tanking in the static. I had this in my original post but had to trim it for length.

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just as another tip: you can always edit your message after the fact to get around the character limit.
What I do is if a message is too long, i just copy it, post 1 through 0, then edit that post with the original message.

I mean, that all sounds good, so I don't know what to tell you lol. Looking at the rest of your gear, I wouldn't hold the i500 weapon against you after questioning. So, I doubt that was it. If it was, then the people trialing you failed at communication, as far as I'm concerned.

It could be that your situational awareness or on-the-fly decision making were truly lacking. But it sounds like other members were messing up too, so I'm not sure how high their standards should realistically be.

Were they trialing other tanks? It could just be that there was a better candidate, although I always inform trials when that's the case.

My situational awareness tends to be pretty good, though obviously not perfect. I caused two wipes early on in 11S due to not adjusting the lightning tether away from the group properly when he was in an odd rotation. My on the fly decision making in this game is definitely lacking. I can learn the fight robotically, it's something I've always been good at, but when the situation gets spicy I don't always make the right decisions in the moment.

E11S is a VERY huge jump from E10S. It's like comparing apples to oranges, so you can't really use 10S to gauge your ability to savage raid.

I'm not certain on how other DCs handle raids, but Crystal (ime) is a lot more lax than other places, so it may just be the pressure from the time constraint(s) until EW.

If I were a static accepting people in a "mid-core" group, I definitely wouldn't have taken in someone who's been MIA for a while, nor do they not bother with the relic/getting augmented exarchic at the least (many ppl cleared w/o relic, but it does help massively)
All-in-all, I dont know you as a person so i couldnt confirm if it was a personality thing, but it was most likely just them not understanding what mid-core is, I would definitely recommend trying to get into a casual group tho if you continue with raiding.

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Originally Posted by GerPronouncedGrr

I played WoW for about 10 years before that, and that time includes Mythic raiding and even older stuff like AQ40.

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Drop this story, it isn't going to bring merits in groups having interest in you, many high level Wow players who raided hardcore in the raids claimed 14 is easy and they perform horribly bad.

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Originally Posted by GerPronouncedGrr

My parses were not good, only about 8% of total damage, but everyone told me to focus on learning the mechanics and to practice my rotation in my off time, and no one indicated that my damage was bad enough to be a deal breaker.

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No one cares about parses in progression, as long you make the DPS check who cares, and you lack gear to even come close in comparisons. Week 1 groups give up time just to stay alive and get more prog time spent in.

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Originally Posted by GerPronouncedGrr

This week we started progging 11S, and it didn't go as well. We had multiple members misunderstand mechanics, including myself, and on the last evening I was with them everyone seemed a little sour in general. There were no heated words exchanged or anything like that, these are nice and chill people, but it was obvious that most of us were feeling tired and frustrated.

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Don't over think on mechanics, E11S mechanics are far more simple than you actually believe. Prog is prog, we all get frustrated trying to push the fight but the point is you have to keep it fun and enjoyable, and everyone is on the same page.

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Originally Posted by GerPronouncedGrr

Today I received a message from the static co-lead, asking me to leave the static.

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We can't answer this if we don't have any footage, words are words.

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Originally Posted by GerPronouncedGrr

So, long story short A)
B)
C)

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A: Only possible if that was the statement, no one would go time wasting who is new when they expected everyone to know the fights. Parses doesn't matter in progging, whoever thinks otherwise needs a brain check since you should focus mechanics 1st. If you get stuck an impasse then worry about DPS.

B: We can't answer much to this.

C: Raid Leader should be talking to you private if there's a problem in a constructive way. It's either one you have issues yourself, or the raid leader is incompetent. I raid hardcore now which I started in SHBs and cleared week 1, I was just a Mid-core > Semi-Hardcore player before in the older times of 14.

I will give my best insight I can.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

Drop this story, it isn't going to bring merits in groups having interest in you, many high level Wow players who raided hardcore in the raids claimed 14 is easy and they perform horribly bad.

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I didn't say this to claim clout, I said it for context. I'm new to XIV but not new to raiding or the mentality required for progression raiding.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

No one cares about parses in progression, as long you make the DPS check who cares, and you lack gear to even come close in comparisons. Week 1 groups give up time just to stay alive and get more prog time spent in.

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I've been told this before, and I agree with you from experience. However, it has not been my experience that everyone agrees on this point, and have seen people get kicked for low parses many times.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

We can't answer this if we don't have any footage, words are words.

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I don't understand what you're trying to say here, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

C: Raid Leader should be talking to you private if there's a problem in a constructive way.

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Yes, I completely agree.

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Originally Posted by GerPronouncedGrr

I didn't say this to claim clout, I said it for context. I'm new to XIV but not new to raiding or the mentality required for progression raiding.

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Still nobody wants to know this, I'm from FFXI and it hasn't got anything like Wow/FFXIV raiding and I climbed from the bottom.

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Originally Posted by GerPronouncedGrr

I don't understand what you're trying to say here, sorry.

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No video footage, or link to your parses, though asking for fflogs not sure how GMs would respond here so risk at your own leisure. Without knowing what you're doing in the fight we can't give insight what you're doing and if the raid leader is speaking the truth, and I mean if.

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Originally Posted by GerPronouncedGrr

However, it has not been my experience that everyone agrees on this point, and have seen people get kicked for low parses many times.

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This only happens in dedicated raid groups if you fail expectations in a trial, and trial runs are meant to be judged 3-4 raid days. People who are pulling uno reverse card after just accepting the raid member not long ago are groups who will die quick.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

No video footage, or link to your parses, though asking for fflogs not sure how GMs would respond here so risk at your own leisure. Without knowing what you're doing in the fight we can't give insight what you're doing and if the raid leader is speaking the truth, and I mean if.

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There is nothing.
Just do a little legwork. Their character name's right there, it's not hidden. There was no data on that place to pull any sort of info.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

There is nothing.
Just do a little legwork. Their character name's right there, it's not hidden. There was no data on that place to pull any sort of info.

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I'm well aware and checked before hand.

I think the problem lies more with the static than you. Sure, you are new and didn't get a weapon upgrade, but the static should've picked up on that easily on their own and told you about it. They knew you were new.

Its rough but I don't expect them to be doing much together very soon at least you got out of it early. Coming EW, everyone's going to be the same so at least you got some thicker skin for both dealing with the raiding scene and the bosses.

The problem with raiding (in 14 and especially in WoW!) is that the moment things stop going well teeth are bared and true character starts to show. It's extra bad when there is a clear and close deadline to finish content before the new stuff comes out.

Sounds like the leadership (if it can be called that with such actions) panicked and decided to start cherry picking. I have seen it many, many times during my years of WoW raiding.

I'm glad that ugly breakup is finished, but I still expect I'll see it in 14 too, but I also expect to see it less.

Frankly, if they acted like this in your second week, you dodged a bullet. Or rather, you got hit with a BB gun now rather than the shotgun blast it would have been when they did the same thing later in fresh content. You're actually super lucky, though it might not feel like it atm.

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

The problem with raiding (in 14 and especially in WoW!) is that the moment things stop going well teeth are bared and true character starts to show. It's extra bad when there is a clear and close deadline to finish content before the new stuff comes out.

Sounds like the leadership (if it can be called that with such actions) panicked and decided to start cherry picking. I have seen it many, many times during my years of WoW raiding.

I'm glad that ugly breakup is finished, but I still expect I'll see it in 14 too, but I also expect to see it less.

Frankly, if they acted like this in your second week, you dodged a bullet. Or rather, you got hit with a BB gun now rather than the shotgun blast it would have been when they did the same thing later in fresh content. You're actually super lucky, though it might not feel like it atm.

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Yeah, the more I think about this, the more I tend to agree with you. By no means am I a perfect person or player, but I legitimately was trying my best and making an effort to get along. The thing that irks me the most now is that, instead of having a conversation with me, they had a conversation about me then informed me of a unilateral decision. To me, this says that the raid leader isn't ready to be a raid leader, and that I should be happy for the experience and move on.

Thank you to everyone who posted responses and helped me wrap my head around this. I won't be checking this post anymore, but I'm grateful to everyone who responded.

If the main issue was low damage and if the static gave a rat's ass they would have offered to help you upgrade your gear. As well as have an open forum on discussing the fights themselves. After your group hit a progression roadblock they started cannibalizing each other. And then you got kicked.

Not the end of the world. I'd take the experience you received from the static and use that if and when you get into a different raid group.

Would honestly just go EW raids, there are always groups accepting people new to Savage raids and many other tiers up to 1st Week/World prog.

Just looking at fflogs tells me the following:

a. That group as a whole is allergic to button pressing and seems like a bad environment to be in if you want to improve.

b. You have absolutely no idea how your rotation works and struggle to press your 123 without breaking combo.
Bottom lines moving forward into savage is looking up guides on the balance and spending a good amount of time hitting the dummy

Agreed on both counts after looking at the logs.

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Originally Posted by acceleratedben

Just looking at fflogs tells me the following:

b. You have absolutely no idea how your rotation works and struggle to press your 123 without breaking combo.
Bottom lines moving forward into savage is looking up guides on the balance and spending a good amount of time hitting the dummy

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Could you please share how you found that information? I was told the logs had all been uploaded as private, and when I search myself on FFLogs all of the fights show no data.

E9S and E10S logs are there under the "Echo" tab.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

E9S and E10S logs are there under the "Echo" tab.

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Thank you very much.

I would recommend putting your logs into xivanalysis.com and seeing what you can improve on. Your biggest rotation issues seem to be breaking combos, your No Mercy Windows and your dps cooldown usage. Remember Rough Divide deals damage and should ideally never cap. If you get 18-20 uses in a fight, that's a lot of potency worth. You should ideally be aiming for an always-be-casting uptime of at least 90%, then from there pushing as close as you can to 100%. Uptime in ff14 is extremely important (even more so than getting the rotation perfect) and while it can feel difficult with mechanics, tank swaps, boss positioning and so on, it's still possible to reach almost 100% so you should always be on the lookout for any little tricks that can get you extra GCDs before you move, or help you avoid breaking melee range for more than a second or two. I'd recommend just hopping into Normal raids or EX and practicing that until it becomes more natural.

Your static has their own issues which I won't analyze, that's their business. Kicking you won't be the magical fix to those problems though.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

You should ideally be aiming for an always-be-casting uptime of at least 90%, then from there pushing as close as you can to 100%. Uptime in ff14 is extremely important (even more so than getting the rotation perfect) and while it can feel difficult with mechanics, tank swaps, boss positioning and so on, it's still possible to reach almost 100% so you should always be on the lookout for any little tricks that can get you extra GCDs before you move, or help you avoid breaking melee range for more than a second or two.

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While uptime is probably not the only issue, E9S is absolutely atrocious for tank uptime without some kind of uptime strat.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I would recommend putting your logs into xivanalysis.com and seeing what you can improve on. Your biggest rotation issues seem to be breaking combos, your No Mercy Windows and your dps cooldown usage. Remember Rough Divide deals damage and should ideally never cap. If you get 18-20 uses in a fight, that's a lot of potency worth. You should ideally be aiming for an always-be-casting uptime of at least 90%, then from there pushing as close as you can to 100%. Uptime in ff14 is extremely important (even more so than getting the rotation perfect) and while it can feel difficult with mechanics, tank swaps, boss positioning and so on, it's still possible to reach almost 100% so you should always be on the lookout for any little tricks that can get you extra GCDs before you move, or help you avoid breaking melee range for more than a second or two. I'd recommend just hopping into Normal raids or EX and practicing that until it becomes more natural.

Your static has their own issues which I won't analyze, that's their business. Kicking you won't be the magical fix to those problems though.

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Thank you for the actionable advice!

Interesting story.
1. They knew you're new
2. I bet they are checked your gear
3. The static cleared the planned trials and moved to the next
4. They knew and saw you have less experience
5. You has been their for 2 weeks

So my theoretical question is - and I think you will find the answer as well on your own:
1. If they knew you have low gear why didn't they help to get better?
2. Why was it all good for two weeks and just humiliated you in this way?
3. How do they know that your dps was bad? They are using ACT? Hahahaaa that's the point where they made a big mistake. ACT is prohibited in this game. YoshiP categorically said: DOn't use that! Abuse of someone because of bad dps is the biggest sin against the game and using ACT is toxic. (Linked video suggested to watch for everyone)

I suggest forgetting them. Entirely. Video to watch (YoshiP interview)
https://youtu.be/jpqkeWZO-8k

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Originally Posted by FujikoN

3. How do they know that your dps was bad? They are using ACT? Hahahaaa that's the point where they made a big mistake. ACT is prohibited in this game. YoshiP categorically said: DOn't use that! Abuse of someone because of bad dps is the biggest sin against the game and using ACT is toxic. (Linked video suggested to watch for everyone)

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It isn't going to stop people. High tier raids groups will always use ACT regardless of rules or not, it keeps bad apples out, avoids time wasting, stops finger pointing. Raiders will not carry peoples poor performances, we all want to be with people on the same skill levels.

Please understand the purpose of the sentence and question context. So, reflect to your post may I mention: If they used act, they exactly knew he is underperforming. Why they kept him for 2 weeks and forced him to leave. No make sense to keep someone for 2 weeks and tell him after, he is underperforming. Makes sense????

As player that cameback , i feel the pain too, it took me for example 4-5 DR to not even die once and even then u make mistakes. watching guides help but u need to practice.

FFXIV is a different beast in raiding , and once u get the rythm u will IMPROVE A LOT , is not like other mmorpgs tbh. But to get to that point u need to PRACTICE. and dummy wont help u outside helping u on opener.

Every boss is different , u need to adapt to it , maybe use the CD sooner o later , party buffs are the most vital , if u dont put your "dmg" on the party dmg window your dps will suffer a lot. And to do that u need to adapt to your party and the boss.

First thing in FFXIV raiding is learning the boss , if u die or get hit by mechanics your dps will suffer, if a party member makes a mistake and kills u , your dps will suffer. To "not fail" u need to do the boss over and over , the issue is that it takes time and in FFXIV 1 player mistake is huge and can wipe or invalidate the try (pt doesnt die but boss gets a dmg buff so next raid wide probably kill every1)

once u know the boss timing your Cds accordinly to that boss maybe goes inmune too soon or a mechanic can interrupt it...but usually ffxiv raid bosses are dummys for a while so ppl can do the opener with easy.

FFXIV is mostly about patience , FFXIV mechanics is like learning to ride / drive , u have to remember so many things, mirros , seatbelt , the clutch , ect , but once u learn that driving is as natural as breathing and then u can improve your riding/driving to max.


About your static , why they didnt talk to you before ? u killed 2 bosses with them , 2 weeks and not even a word ? hell the RL should have talked to you in private or the other tank asked if u need any help , they knew u were new to ffxiv and savage.

Maybe it wasnt about you , maybe they got a friend wanting to join and u just were the new guy ¿? who knows...

But dont feel bad about it , get another static for EW , is a fresh expansion :D so time to catch up .

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Originally Posted by FujikoN

Please understand the purpose of the sentence and question context. So, reflect to your post may I mention: If they used act, they exactly knew he is underperforming. Why they kept him for 2 weeks and forced him to leave. No make sense to keep someone for 2 weeks and tell him after, he is underperforming. Makes sense????

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Feel like a "lol echo buff savage easy lol let's clean fast before EW" case, and when they hit a wall they look for someone to take all the responsability.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

FFXIV is a different beast in raiding , and once u get the rythm u will IMPROVE A LOT , is not like other mmorpgs tbh. But to get to that point u need to PRACTICE. and dummy wont help u outside helping u on opener.

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Dummy practice is there to ingrain and make sense of your rotation. As it becomes second nature, you'll be able to focus more and more easily on mechanics and optimization.

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First thing in FFXIV raiding is learning the boss , if u die or get hit by mechanics your dps will suffer, if a party member makes a mistake and kills u , your dps will suffer.

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It may just be the way you've framed this statement, but I have to disagree.

You first need to understand the basic game mechanics and gameplay fundamentals (rolling your GCD, attack and healing ranges, mechanic markers/telegraphs, position snapshotting, etc.).
Following that, you need to understand how your job and role function. Ideally, you also try to grasp why your job works the way it does (e.g. why is your opener and rotation structured the way that it is).

If you don't have a firm understanding of these things, then you're not ready for Savage raiding, frankly.
And when I say "understanding," I mean only that. How well you can practically apply that understanding in a given encounter is an open question.

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Originally Posted by Imragarn

Feel like a "lol echo buff savage easy lol let's clean fast before EW" case, and when they hit a wall they look for someone to take all the responsability.

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Exactly. What those players did to him that was disgusting.

That's a hard one. Assuming it was only a couple of hours of prog, my gut says that they had somebody else in mind to take your place, and that your damage/gear was a convenient excuse to get somebody else in. But without logs or footage, I can't really say how much that's down to your actual performance.

It's not as easy to figure as it was with I got kicked from my static. I was an ass.

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Originally Posted by FujikoN

Please understand the purpose of the sentence and question context. So, reflect to your post may I mention: If they used act, they exactly knew he is underperforming. Why they kept him for 2 weeks and forced him to leave. No make sense to keep someone for 2 weeks and tell him after, he is underperforming. Makes sense????

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Maybe they did look for another tank in the meantime and just didn’t tell him because they thought they find another one decently fast ? Hard too say what they thought but I would think that’s more or less the case here. And I mean it’s not hard even as a returner or newcomer too ask what is the best weapon and what other pieces of gear you can use before you can get these. You always will have people helping you and tell you that you can get 520 ilvl gear that makes the entire raid tier easy possible with echo and I know even some people who would craft you the gear for it for free in the Odin novice network if you ask nicely.