Ok so yeah, I can't get into this without touching on spoilers, but I doubt I'm the only one, relatively new as I may be, to see that the only thing that gets as much work put into it as the current lore, are hints at past lore in FFXIV.
There have been 7 eras of lost civilizations and fallen kingdoms, hinted at in so many ARR dungeons and Shadowbringers worldbuilding of the first. While this can be waved away as "it's just the world building that you need to do for a world this deep," there are multiple iterations of time travel opportunities in the game now, and other worlds that do this kind of world building have either done it with prior games or put in time travel to see these moments in dungeons. The Crystal Exarch himself could end up being the "Dr Who of the FFXIV universe," with the WoL as his faithful companion! And let's not forget that while Yoshi-P basically said "do all the 8-person raids, they're relevant," Alexander being specifically named puts time travel on the table.
I don't know, maybe I'm just hyper aware of this angle right now because I'm touring all the non-mandatory dungeon content in ARR, and so many of these things reference a past that deserves to be front and center, and at the same time, I can't think we're just going to start over on another planet with 7.0: We should still be rooted on "this star," and the greatest stories to tell here now are the ones that have been told, just not before our eyes.
Oh yeah, and Sharlayan are pretty sure that "if the end was here, we'd know." They're totally timetravel aware! And who says the Isle of Val isn't so much gone as it is time-shifted or something?
And don't get me started on the first! Literally every zone is "built on the bones" of older civilizations!
I'm new-ish to FFXIV lore, but everything I'm seeing is painting pictures of a history that begs to be explored! Maybe the double entendre of "endwalker" is that we go forth into places that have ended to solve the end that faces Eorzea in the present, and we are zapped out right before the actual apocalypse to learn from the lessons of eras past, and their rises and falls!
[SPOILERS] The future of FFXIV should be its past.
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11-11-2021, 04:23 AMOmedon[SPOILERS] The future of FFXIV should be its past.
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11-11-2021, 04:50 AMKranel_San
Ahhh....... I don't like time travel so please no. Lets me explore Hingashi, Meracydia, New world, and most of all... Northrend... I mean The northpole!
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11-11-2021, 04:54 AMlezard21I heard it's pretty dissapointing and no one plays it anymoreQuote:
Originally Posted by Kranel_San
On the topic at hand, I do agree that events like the War of the Magi would be interesting story telling, but yeah, let's not do time travel.
Maybe reserve it for a raid where you use one of those memory crystals from Bozja to "relieve the events of the past" but not as a whole expansion. That would be weird. -
11-11-2021, 04:57 AMKranel_SanI knew someone would meme this xDQuote:
Originally Posted by lezard21
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11-11-2021, 05:27 AMTheRealQuahThe first era was pretty well described in 5.3, and we played through the crystal tower and shadow of mhach series to flesh out 2 of the other era. We lived through tbe 6th and 7th. I think there is plenty of content in the game that explores the past eras through gameplay and not worldbuildingQuote:
Originally Posted by Omedon
The Isle of val isn't missing, its Eureka.
Sharlayan don't do time travel, they have a series of prophetic books called the Gerun oracles that loosly prophecise future events. They don't think the final days are here because their book is predicting the eighth umbral calamity. They don't really we averted it, accidently putting the final days into effect.
Alexander was powerful enough to be able to go back in time and change events, specifically he could have easily defeated Bahamut. However Alexander reviewed all times lines and came to the conclusion that the best timeline was the one we are in. So he won't go back in time and change anything. -
11-11-2021, 05:34 AMOmedonWell that was a studium level education on some details I either didn't know or missed! Thank you very much!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealQuah
I'd still like to to see, say, the war of the magi live and in color though! -
11-11-2021, 05:38 AMaveyond-dreams
I have 0 interest in any further time travel. The gimmick with the Crystal Tower was enough of a stretch. The WoL already can see visions of the past through the echo anyway.
Hard pass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omedon
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11-11-2021, 05:41 AMArthurATDayneI wouldn't mind seeing a cutscene where The Crystal Exarch travels to a really shady alleyway that's in a middle of a gang warfare shootout, steps out of his TARDIS like an idiot and gets blasted 100 times and dies right there. Like what happened to Dr Who in that stupid TV Movie, except this time no revival or coming back. THE END of Time Travel in 1st Quest of the MSQ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omedon
Maybe pan camera to WOL's face for a reaction shot OMG Face :eek:
As The Crystal Exarch gets riddled with more firepower in overly dramatic manner. -
11-11-2021, 06:24 AMnebby00
To be honest, lore wise I want to explore Mercydia or any other region that had been previously mentioned but lost to time for reasons of war or otherwise. Time travel honestly makes the story messy if the writers aren't careful, and typically I wouldn't be for it unless it's guaranteed to not cause too much confusion or muddle potential plot points.
And as others had said before, we already have touched on previous era events in the raids. I would like to be able to adventure in the current time line in potentially new continents; since after all the WoL is an adventurerer first and foremost and what is an adventurer without exploring new lands? I wouldn't be against traveling to other stars either! -
11-11-2021, 06:31 AMLarirawiel
Time travel and altering the past has always made many problems. I hope, SQEX will never touch it. It will cause many retcons etc.
Cheers -
11-11-2021, 06:38 AMfrostmagemari
We've already had time travel (sort of) in this expansion as a tertiary element, but i'd rather not have a time travel focused expansion. Now, i can really get behind a resurgence of Allagans (like, on an imperial scale, not just Xande's tower) or Mhach or some other old power that's come back after being hidden away for generations and we have to deal with it. That's the kind of "ffxiv's future is its past" is something i can get behind.
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11-11-2021, 06:43 AMTheMightyMollusk
The only source of time travel in-game is Alexander, who sealed himself outside of time because his power was too dangerous to use. The Ironworks in the Bad Future resorted to bootlegging Alexander and Omega to turn their Crystal Tower into a time machine, but A: It's still on the First, and B: It's non-functional. We destroyed the core of it, the Tycoon, as the final boss of the Twinning dungeon, and nobody knows how to build another one. G'raha might have some idea of how it works, but he can't freely travel across the Rift to go back and tinker with it. And building it in the first place was an act of massive desperation that still took decades. And even if we got it running again, time travel is inexact. G'raha arrived on the First over a century earlier than he intended. So we still couldn't just hop around the time stream at will.
So no, time travel's off the table. -
11-11-2021, 08:02 AMMoofiaBossVal
Keep the past unexplored and mysterious.
World of Warcraft's lore felt vast and mysterious way back when you don't know everything, when you had only heard whispers about a group called "the Titans" and they were some big force in the past, and that was it. That sense of grandeur and history faded away as the Titans and their era were increasingly fleshed out to the point that we knew literally everything that happened. If FFXIV did the same thing, then the mystery of Amdapor and Mhach or the other Astral Eras would go away.
I'd much rather move on to exploring other continents, shards, and worlds. -
11-11-2021, 08:04 AMLaurontIf this is the future Fandaniel is labouring to end... I think I'll be joining the Telophoroi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omedon
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11-11-2021, 08:09 AMSturmChurro
Yeah, a full expansion would be too much. 'Back in time' content I think is more digestible when it's done sparingly, and more so ties into current or future events.
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11-11-2021, 08:16 AMmyahele
I would like to know more of each eras. Something like Void Ark, Crystal Tower, Warring Triad and Coils were nice ways to learn more of the past eras.
But I don't want want time travel to experience these eras. In fact, I don't want any more time travel. -
11-11-2021, 08:21 AMItMeThese eras actually have pretty robust write ups in the Encyclopedia Eorzea~Quote:
Originally Posted by myahele
The info you seek is already available. -
11-11-2021, 08:24 AMRosenstrauch
I'd be pretty interested in more creative uses of the WoL's Echo. Exploring memories of the past and such. But a whole time travel expansion would probably just cause headaches.
That said, I liked the idea behind Warlords of Draenor significantly more than its execution. The idea of exploring an ancient, alien world is cool. Maybe they could do something like that with Omega's home world or the Dragonstar. -
11-11-2021, 08:32 AMmyaheleI was mostly talking from a game play perspective as not everyone can or will get the lore book and they also came after those raids were done.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItMe
I'd to have a dungeon or raid that sheds more light on civilizations from __ era instead of a time traveling to those eras to experience them. -
11-11-2021, 08:41 AMIscahThe time of the Ancients is actually the "zeroeth" era, prior to the beginning of the cycle of calamities.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealQuah
And the Sharlayans have an entire library of prophetic books. The Gerun Oracles is just one book, and not a highly regarded one judging from Urianger's reaction when Elidibus first suggests it to him. -
11-11-2021, 09:09 AMStriderShinryuYeah, that turn of things would honestly make me quit the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omedon
As for time travel in general, no. I wouldn't mind being able to experience certain moments and places first hand via the echo but no actual time travel. -
11-11-2021, 10:13 AMKnot_D
Ew no, I really hate those time travel to past and change the history thing. It's fine if the past is like what we encountered with Cid's past memory, but not about changing the history...
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11-11-2021, 11:15 AMMomo_Kozuki
Eh, I'm not sure if I want more time travel. We already have echo to tell what happens in the past already.
I'm not keen on dimensional travel to other shards either. ShB is cool and stuff thanks to brilliant story-writing, but the moment WoL finished his business over there, the First immediately feel disconnected to the rest of the Source and I don't really feel want to visit The First again in near future. This would happen to other shards if they are ever introduced. I prefer to see things happen in the Source and how it will grow, instead of being an isekai hero who go to kill the demon king (in this case, Lightwardens and Ascians) then get returned to modern world without any fanfare. -
11-11-2021, 12:05 PMTanis_Ebonhart
Didn't Shadowbringers already use Time Travel?
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11-11-2021, 12:08 PMAsari5yes... and the alexander story used it even before shbQuote:
Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart
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11-11-2021, 03:28 PMArzalisYes and then we literally went to kill the the deus ex machina (or at least the machina part) to rule out any future time travel shenanigans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart
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11-11-2021, 05:18 PMKageTokage
No thanks.
We still have two entire continents and most of Aldenard left to use for expansion material before we start delving further into inter-dimensional and/or timey wimey shenanigans. -
11-11-2021, 05:21 PMWarlyx
time travel exist already....the start of 2.0 for example , alexander , and we can see the past thanks to echo. FFXI had an expasion based around traveling to the past.
But i prefer to expand our world or traveling to others worlds (like we did in SHB ) , but now come EW , there is no point to go back to the first , while HW/SB zones are still relevant to the story. -
11-11-2021, 05:32 PMBearded
Time travel, phases to see the world in - no thanks. When a TV series runs out of ideas you get the "flashback" episodes. Lazy writing.
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11-11-2021, 06:23 PMSotaris
Please no time travel. If we want a "new start" then blow up the world again, a new ARR event or something.
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11-11-2021, 08:32 PMKaitoAsaha
I'm pretty laid back, so wouldn't mind this, so long as the writing is top notch and handled very well. I find that vanilla time travel is harder to deal with due to cause and affect from actions done in the past meaning tons of potential retcons, while time travel creating alternate timelines give us more freedom for what we're allowed and not allowed to do. At the moment XIV is following.. alternate timelines, otherwise G'raha should've ceased to exist in the present, yes? And if that's right then I see no harm in it, as Scion's or anyone dead from the past still can't return or be saved.
Introducing role duties where we play as NPCs from the past should suffice too, to experience what they went through via their own perspective. Though I'm a sucker for getting to visit established characters when they were just snot nosed brats. All of the future Scion's when they were yet undecided on the path they would take and very rough around the edges? Sign me up.
But I'm also for the multiverse theory and there being actual mirror universes where there's just inverted versions of everyone(criminally simple, I know), and the norm of their world is for evil to be the natural course of things. Something moreso along the lines of DC's Earth Prime/0 and Earth 3. So here the Garleans would be the force trying to save the world through benevolence and peaceful conclusions. They came pretty close with the WoLs from The First but it isn't the same. I'm giddy about the concept of interfering with mirrored earths, in attempts to establish our morals there, only for it to realign itself back to its evil norm and then pay the price for mingling by them crossing over to return the favor on a much larger scale. It's definitely the kid in me that's amused by simple stuff like a world of evil doppelgangers.
Personally I'm curious to what the entire player base feels about this as a whole, as the opinions on just the forum alone is too small to base things off of, whether it's for or against the idea.
Tldr; I'm interested. Curious to how the entire player base feels about it. -
11-11-2021, 10:11 PMIscahAt least as I understand it, it's a hybrid stable time loop and splittable timeline system where ideally a single consistent version of the timeline is maintained and if you travel back in time anything you do is simply "the way it always was" – but if you manage to change something that can't be reconciled with your present-day reality (say, preventing a world-altering calamity) then that creates a split in the timeline to prevent a paradox. This locks you into the new timeline and you can't go back to the old one.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaitoAsaha
Actually jumping between timelines would require a higher class of reality-shifting power than anything we have access to.
The shards are functionally alternate timelines of each other, having all started as identical copies of the Source at the moment of the sundering, but that was 12,000 years ago (give or take some fluctuations) and the similarities aren't much more than the basic geography being in the same places. It's too distant in time to encounter copies of the same people, besides a few gameplay gimmicks.
The "inverted morality mirror universe" sounds far too contrived for my liking. -
11-11-2021, 10:11 PMlinayar
Time travel is unnecessary to "explore" the past. Being a fantasy world, things of the past can survive into the future in some ways. And in some ways, we've been doing that with some of the dungeons over the years. Even both the upcoming raid and alliance raid could tie into the past in some ways.
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11-12-2021, 03:35 AMKaitoAsahaThanks for this, because only later did I realize that this was more the case than I originally thought. I forgot how it seemed to work in Alexander, so it being a hybrid rule seems fitting. As for the mortality mirror thing it's always been a sort of Saturday morning cartoon concept to me, so I don't really expect to see it in writing that's even remotely wanting to be taken seriously. Unless..Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
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11-12-2021, 04:27 AMArthurATDayne
I don't mind having just 1 hilarious quest in a MSQ with "Dr Who" time traveling as long as the "Dr Who" Sacrificial Lamb gets riddled with overwhelming firepower and obscene violence and we get funny close up reaction shots of the WOL's OMG Face and generous horrific bloody shots of the now overkilled "Dead Dr. Who" still being blasted apart.
Maybe make it a Single MSQ Roulette event where 8 players can go along for the ride with "Dr Who" Time Traveling and experience the horrific and hilarious end of it.
Bonus points for some semi deep narrator commentary "Those who dare to Time Travel and try to Retcon and/or Alter History will often end up as its punchline lol" and pan camera for another gratuitous shot of the "Dr Who" still getting bloody ripped apart without any dignity, maybe have a screamer sound "Ahhhhhhhhhhhh" before players leave with Gil & Token rewards.