Hello so where do i start, i played ff14 from arr up to hw, had around 4k hours in the game but from those 4k hours maybe 3,5k where exclusively on scholar. I dabbled a bit in dps roles but while i do pretty well on dps i dont enjoy it since i tend to tunnel vision very hard on my action bars and esentially spend most of every fight staring at cooldowns and procs instead of enjoying the game.
Right now i returned to the game because a certain new mmo release dissapointed me and reawakened my thirst for mmos and i am having a blast with tanks a role which i never played in mmos.
My question is simply how demanding is this role for prog content? Is it a very hard to master/play role compared to a dps class ? And what is the best ways to practice being a tank in said content, is it forgiving to rotational mistakes?
Thank you very much !
Question for experienced tanks.
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11-07-2021, 06:08 AMSenzorialBoundriesQuestion for experienced tanks.
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11-07-2021, 11:29 AMHierro
How demanding? Hard to say as I don't really play any other role but tank, but I feel it's pretty chill.
If you want to practice, just join a fresh prog party for whatever the current tier's first fight is. In prog, rotational mistakes are a given. In fact, some would argue that your priority should lie in learning the mechanics, first and foremost. Those same people would argue you could be spamming your projectile for all you care, assuming there's no DPS check built into the phase. The important thing is to learn the fight. But if you ask me, it's best to just get your rotation down from the start as you learn, so when you do reach the stage where you're ready to clear, your DPS is up to par. In prog, dps does not matter. In clear parties, dps does matter. -
11-07-2021, 12:54 PMUndeadfire
It depends on how much you're talking on demand. Every MMORPG has a class of Casual, Midcore, Semi-Hardcore and Hardcore.
Demanding wise it's Melee/Caster DPS > Tank > Healer > Ranged DPS.
Balance Discord exists for optimal rotations for general players every job. Some jobs have a custom setup for the hardcore players only as they tend to very care about optimising everyone's tool kit and expect everyone to be on high level. If you really wanna improve, get some practice from doing EX trials doing the general rotation and start investing time joining a raid group. If you wanna keep getting better, you gotta climb from the bottom like everyone else has. -
11-07-2021, 02:52 PMItMeTanking is straightforward enough that most tank mains I know are also the primary person doing callouts for their team.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries
The rotation is far simpler than any of the DPS jobs, so you're able to focus on what you're doing much better. It gives you ample opportunity to pay attention to what the boss is doing, as well as stay firmly on top of your own responsibilities and help cover for any mistakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries
I personally find it to be easier to master than DPS classes, but I tunnel vision as most DPS so take that with a grain of salt. Tanks being able (and asked) to focus more on what the boss/enemies are doing is really helpful for me.
Yes, it is quite forgiving to rotational mistakes.
For starters, because the rotations are pretty short.
And if you do mess up your rotation, worst case scenario you miss out on some DPS or some resource generation that goes to more DPS, which is important but as a tank that will rarely make or break your prog.
The best way to practice being a tank in said content is to just do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries
Go into whatever level of content you're comfortable with, once you acclimate consider doing something harder.
There is a general difficulty curve from beginning to end of each expac.
So if you're looking to tank EXes, the two you get through MSQ are excellent places to start.
If you're looking to tank Savage, the first tier is always designed as a bit of an introductory one and a perfect place to hop in.
And if you're looking to tank Ultimates, I'd probably recommend starting with UWU.
But you don't need to wait until 6.0. Especially with the 2 week delay you can get your feet wet tanking Innocence EX or Eden. Being quite over geared will probably help quite a bit if you're nervous, so give it a shot.
Have fun and good luck~Quote:
Originally Posted by SenzorialBoundries
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11-07-2021, 03:47 PMArgyle_Darkheart
Research your job's opener, rotation, and preferred GCD speed(s). Looking at a job guide is also helpful to make sure you understand the full breadth and depth of your job's kit and any nuances it may have. Then, go practice on a dummy, a lot. Trust me, don't underestimate the value of this (I still regularly practice on a dummy).
You don't need to be doing optimal DPS, particularly as a tank, but you will be performing your rotation at all times (or trying to). The more you ingrain your rotation, the less you'll focus on it—you want it to become "natural."
Getting to this point is important as it'll allow you to concentrate more on fight mechanics, positioning, CD management, etc.
Once you're reasonably comfortable with your job fundamentals, enter fights in ascending difficulty. Encounter research isn't imperative depending on who you're running with, but it's good etiquette and will accelerate the learning process.
Communicate with your party. Ask if you're making any mistakes or if there's anything you could/should be doing differently. Ideally, you should also ask for their reasoning. As long as you come off as polite and earnest, people will be more than happy to help, if they're able. -
11-07-2021, 09:30 PMRatCopter
1. Demand depends on the fight, really. Some fights have pretty intensive moments for tanks, some just ask for a tank swap and that's about it. So long as you use your mitigation properly, know when to provoke/shirk, know where you should be positioning and facing a boss, and have a general idea of what's happening in a fight, you'll be alright.
2. I'd say tanking is easier than dps, simply by virtue of having far more eHP than dps. You can eat a mechanic and a raidwide, and still be relatively alright on health while any other role will probably die.
3. The best way to practice is to just do it, simply put. Best places to start would be dungeon runs normal raids, it get you into a similar environment with more room for error.
4. Rotational mistakes isn't really a major issue, being that the dps are going to be doing the majority of the, uh, dps.
Tl;Dr just do it lmao. -
11-09-2021, 01:16 AMBluexBird
Tanking is literally a melee DPS with no positionals. Also unlike healers, you have a rotation/damage window with buffs that will let you do tons of damage.
The difference is that at the same time you will also have to do tank mechanics, like putting the boss in a certain place, using cooldowns to take big hits, and swapping agro with the other tank. So you have to get used to skills like Provoke and Shirk. Besides that, everything else is pretty much like a normal DPS job.
And in dungeons, as long as you make sure no one else is getting hit by anything, you'll be fine. -
11-09-2021, 04:17 AMSqwall
Been tanking for around 8 years, and Warrior is my main (switched from Paladin). Tanking in general is actually fairly relaxing. Compared to when I DPS or Heal...Tanking is very easy from a job standpoint.
Where tanking get's complex and stressful is:
1. Boss Positioning (raiding specific). Standing still and keeping the boss situated correctly to prevent frontal cleaves/tankbusters/positionals for DPS/centered in the arena. This requires situational awareness, understanding ground markers, understanding your minimap. This comes easier the more you do it, and helps when raiding.
2. Tank Swaps. Not around how the swaps are done...but making sure your co-tank understands when to provoke/shirk. Example: PUG'ed Hades EX once. The ice/fire add phase you need to grab hate on one of the adds AFTER you see your debuff. Ice debuff grabs the fire add. Vice Versa. I had a co-tank that just started DPSing one of the adds BEFORE the debuff appeared...50/50 chance they were right, but this time they were wrong. Now they have hate on the wrong add, and I need to voke it off of them wasting my provoke for the tank swap when they swap the debuff right after the. To add insult to injury the co-tank should have shield lobed, and pull the add...but RAN UPTO the add to get hate, and passed it near me....the adds link....both tanks die. Now pugging is mixed bag, shame on me for assuming the tank knew how to handle that phase.
3. Battle Knowledge. This goes for ALL roles, but Tanks pretty much have to know EVERY part of a battle/boss more then any role (imo). Where to stand, north/south/east/west...sometimes in reverse when MTing (east is west and west is east),
Boss percentages for phase changes, adds, sneak attacks you may not see. (eden fulmination horses).
I find myself calling out fights MUCH more when on my tank then on DPS or healer.
Cast bar attacks and knowing what each one means. This isn't to say that you will never know a fight...it just takes practice as most extreme/savage are extremely scripted. Seat of Sacrifice is exempt due to it's 2nd phase RNG for 4 major mechanics. One of the better designed Extremes...if not the best.
4. Mitigation judgement. When to mitigate and which skill to use. Example: My HP is high...use Raw Intuition. Tank buster incoming....vengeance and/or with low HP add Thrill of Battle. If I have a TBN from co-tank with tank buster coming in...just pop rampart. Mitigation is a tanks gameplay vs. DPS positionals/healers...well healing/DPS buttons.
Tanking isn't scary....being scolded for not understanding fight mechanics or where to stand is. That's where most the tanxiety comes from. Just learn to get comfortable with the fight. -
11-09-2021, 02:07 PMUndeadfireWhile most of your statements are correct, this is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqwall
Nascent Flash completely outvalues Raw Intuition you may as well think it doesn't exist, Nascent Flash can be shared with another player and using it during Inner Release/Infuriate the Healer can completely ignore you. You don't hold cooldowns until a buster shows up, you use cooldowns efficiently timed to a point it's back up for busters vice versa. Having your cooldowns soak a lot of auto attacks and damage mechanics is just as good value taking a tank buster. It's another good reason to let the OT take hits to use their cooldowns instead of DPSing with no involvement making the Healer burn all their OCDs on the MT. -
11-09-2021, 10:28 PMSqwallRight about that. They were just examples. The OP will find out the higher complexity of tanking when they get there. DPS on a tank is easy. Understanding all the intricate parts of mitigation takes a lot more work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Undeadfire
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11-10-2021, 06:57 AMUndeadfireIf I am to be frank getting really high DPS isn't either unless you really practiced the job. Claiming can be easy, actually doing it is a different story and easy to reveal it. Paladin is notably a difficult tank to optimise for having 3 Rotations and one custom rotation for TEA this current Xpac. It's simple if you go for basic play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqwall