So for the first time since ARR i decided to look at my 50 Pali.
It was a switch over from trying GNB since i heard Pali is easier
With my Gnb i had been doing Command missions to try and get some confidence to try leveling roulettes and found it pretty easy over all, had no hiccups or wipes.
Today I tried the same thing with my Pali... first Pharos... wiped on the first boss, my Squad healer couldn't keep me up and the adds were spawning nonstop so overwhelmed us.
Ok i thought, try something easier, so i went with Aurum Vale, Second boss, flattened me.
Gave it another try and scraped by the skin of my teeth, my GNB walked over this with the healer keeping up.
First trash pack after that boss? Flattened again. Once more i couldn't mitigate enough damage for my healer to keep me up, once again something that was effortless with my GNB.
I really dont know whats going wrong here? With Pali I run out of defense move quickly and Sheltron barely does anything, but even without defensives my GNB handled things fine, Youi cant tell me a Pali decked out in a full set of Bahamut gear cant tank Aurum Vale of all places?
After looking at guides etc i honestly cant find what im doing wrong, Why am i getting flattened when i play pali in level appropriate content?
Whats up with pali?
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11-02-2021, 10:08 AMSililosWhats up with pali?
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11-02-2021, 10:12 AMVahlnir
By the sound of things there are some important mechanics that you are missing, perhaps because you are learning another job. It's somewhat difficult to juggle boss mechanics and job mechanics sometimes, especially if you are still trying to learn said job.
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11-02-2021, 10:20 AMSililos
Naa im well aware of the mechanics and pulling it all off. I just keep dropping regardless.
I just tried a fate and even my healer focused Chocobo couldn't keep up with the damage i was taking with defensives up.
*Edit* pretty much using Sentinel and Rampart on cooldown with no crossover.
Sheltron every chance i can.
Seeing damage mitigation from moves of about 18% across the board. -
11-02-2021, 10:24 AMVahlnirPLD is very good at keeping themselves alive so I'm not really sure what you tell you then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sililos
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11-02-2021, 10:31 AMSililos
I think thats in large due to Devine veil and Clemency which I dont get until 56 and 58, at this stage, no self heals.
Sentinel has a huge cooldown, There is hallowed Ground but also on a massive cooldown.
I had thought Sheltron was supposed to block incoming damage? For me its blocking a very small portion instead, weaker than the other moves. -
11-02-2021, 10:32 AMSenorPatty
Just sounds like you were having bad runs is all. Maybe you executed mechs properly but your party members didn't? It's easy to drop if your healer's not healing and/or dead.
As for fates, depends on what kind of fate you were doing too. Also, how well is your choco healing you?
Like Vahlnir said, PLD does a pretty good job defensively at lvl 50. Heck, just having access to HG at that level--and doing duties in that level--gives it a slight edge over the other tanks. -
11-02-2021, 11:12 AMSililos
Yeah i think my Shelton is bugged. Its not blocking damage, just did some tests to be sure.
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11-02-2021, 11:17 AMDeaconMoorebroken gear?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sililos
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11-02-2021, 11:44 AMTranquilmelody7I'm going to have go ahead and disagree here.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorPatty
Paladin is possibly the worst tank for ARR, as they the only TANK that doesn't have a heal baked into their rotation.
10 seconds of invulnerability every 7 minutes doesn't mean much if all the other Tanks have access their own invulnerability skills at that level with shorter CDs(Albeit, all with their own drawbacks).
No idea what the OP is experiencing though, as Shelltron alone is still more than a capable CD on it's own for general content. -
11-02-2021, 11:45 AMSilverObiSomething like that would need screenshots and to be submitted to the Bug Report forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sililos
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11-02-2021, 01:09 PMKageTokage
Server ticks/snapshots necessitate using Sheltron a fair bit sooner then on-screen visuals would suggest.
There are some weird mechanics that simply cannot be blocked, though; usually things that do fixed/percentage-based damage. -
11-02-2021, 02:01 PMYeol
A tip I can offer is to use Reprisal on pulls. It's an AoE mitigation. Reduces damage dealt by nearby enemies by 10% for 10s.
Keep in mind that PLD has no self-heals on their skills/abilities (This will change with Endwalker). GNB has Brutal Shell and Aurora. -
11-02-2021, 02:17 PMValkyrie_LennethDo you have a shield equipped?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sililos
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11-02-2021, 02:34 PMKrotoanQuote:
Originally Posted by Sililos
... That's Coincounter right? He shouldn't even HIT you most of the time. IIRC that fight is like 80% telegraphed avoidable hits. I'm now convinced you're the type of tank who expects a healer to keep you up through telegraphs because "they don't kill me and that's your job". Paladins can't live through that kind of damage without their heal and other later mitigation on just a "trust" healer.
Correct me if I'm wrong of course but are you just taking telegraphs and expecting to live? -
11-02-2021, 05:34 PMRavor
I thought DK is the weakest tank of all...... once i lvled my DK i wanna try pally....... is pally that bad at early lvl ???
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11-02-2021, 05:39 PM_Pigzig
if youre having trouble as tank you are definitely doing something wrong
123 on boss. dont even need to avoid mechanics. if boss uses a move pop a coolie and just heal through it
dont even need to do mechanics, in fact may as well sit in them once you are geared. let healer do something for once in its life -
11-02-2021, 05:42 PMGarnix
If you die so fast, it must mean that either your gear is not level-appropriate, or broken.
Even without mitigation skills you should be able to survive easily in most dungeons. -
11-02-2021, 06:23 PMRein_eon_OsborneConsidering you're using Squadrons, I can imagine several unfortunate situations that could've lead to your wipes. But the most glaring of all issues that I can think of would be their AI, particularly speaking: the healer's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sililos
The most common cause of wipe in Pharos first boss is due to the damage taken from crystalline combustion stacks. Squadrons do not do mechanics nor dodge bad stuffs, at all. Their healer AI does not interrupt casts & adjust very poorly to the situations unfolding, i.e. Medica I/II too far back to reach you and/or prioritizing Esuna to cleanse trivial debuff over topping you up from certain death in next 3-5s. They're just that slow. I even had few times when my ACN squadron would Physick (lmao) the tank/me instead because how terrible their AI is.
For Aurum's Coincounter, you can dodge virtually every of their attacks besides auto attacks and their occasional frontal cleave (non-telegraphed). The only way you can get pounded hard here as a tank is if you eat up the large circle AoE. It's guaranteed to take away almost all of your health even as a tank and possibly one shotting your squishier squadron members. My best guess is the healer AI simply do not react accordingly and left you to die, or you just happened to take one of those telegraphed AoE. Another possibility is your other squadron members eats up their lightning AoE and your healer AI decides to neglect you by trying to Esuna all those Electrocution & Paralysis off your squadrons.
Under normal circumstances, as squishy as PLD can be in ARR content, they should -not- have too much trouble so long as cooldowns are rotated well and healers are not sleeping.
Also wanting to add: GNB also have an edge over other tanks for ARR contents for having way more self preservation means. Discounting invulns, they have Rampart, Camouflage, Nebula, Aurora(!!), and on top of that like you've said, there's a heal+shield baked into their 1-2-3. PLD truly feels more dependent at those levels to their healer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7
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11-02-2021, 06:57 PMBeddictDon't Critical Hits also bypass Block? It's not a problem in Shadowbringers since enemy attacks no longer crit in content from 5.0+, but a bunch of mobs critting in Pharos will still hurt like hell when they ignore Sheltron.Quote:
Originally Posted by KageTokage
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11-02-2021, 07:00 PMAbsurdityI was just about to say...I'm pretty sure SE did not go back and remove crits from old bosses, so Shelltron can end up being completely useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beddict
It's one of the reasons why I suggested that they just change it to a flat 20% mitigation for 6 seconds, you can't even go past that amount of mitigation anymore, since they capped Block Rating and Block Strength on shields.
In dungeons especially Shelltron is just a worse version of Raw Intuition or Heart of Stone, because guess what is the most dangerous thing in current max level dungeons? The trash. And what's the thing that can still crit you with auto attacks in current max level dungeons? The trash. -
11-02-2021, 07:17 PMNishira
I haven’t played GNB at all, and my paladin is only 46 so uh… this may not be helpful :D But Sheltron doesn’t block everything, from what I remember when I read up on it, it’s 15-25% iirc, and then on top of that some things are just not mitigated by it at all. So that may explain why you concluded it must be bugged. I could imagine you might be pulling with the idea that overall you’ll have stronger mitigation than you factually do, pull big and kill yourself that way. As I am completely clueless as to how GNB plays, I can’t estimate at all whether it is just stronger at that level.
That said, to me paladin feels decidedly chunky with reprisal, rampart and sentinel + sheltron, and my chocobo has had no issues with fates and such. But from what I remember early HW content hits quite a bit harder than late ARR content, maybe that’s causing it? I won’t even comment on the squadron healer, it definitely feels like living on the edge at times! If GNB is more self sufficient at those levels, I would understand your differing experiences on the two tanks. Paladin does need a heal now and then. If you think you’ve got the hang of the class, tbh I’d just give it a go in DF because I’m guessing with a player healer it may feel more like it should. -
11-02-2021, 08:24 PMJeeqbit
The first boss of Pharos quickly spawns a lot of adds and you need to kill them quick or they build up and wipe you. I've wiped there many times in DF because of people thinking they can ignore them. Sometimes ignoring them does actually work but not always.
In Aurum Vale, there are some geysers that shoot up and hit you. You might also be standing in the yellow area which reduces your health until you move out of it. You might still have the damage over time from the first boss if you didn't cleanse it with the fruit.
All leveling dungeons hit hard too and require frequent healing without mitigation (these are dungeons 1-49, 51-59, 61-69, 71-79), but you shouldn't die in one hit so check your gear and that you repaired.
Paladin has a problem where it lacks both mitigation and self-healing compared to other tanks (unless they use Clemency), but that will be improved in EW. -
11-02-2021, 09:03 PMKes13a
I only took my squadrons out a couple times personally and wouldnt trust them to boil water and not get hit by it
make sure your gear is repaired, that will make a huge difference if its broken. make sure it is up to date
are squadrons handy if you dont like people? sure... but they also fail to anticipate
coincounter used to be worse before they put in the telegraph areas instead of just the boss windup and you hoping you can get out of the way. I would say unless your party is a bit on the dim side, should be little reason to wipe after the changes. so I am leaning towards gear and, well, your party of AI's -
11-04-2021, 07:11 AMTranquilmelody7Glossing over DRK'S endgame viability(They are projected to be the worst TNK in most regards, if not by far), DRK is actually one of the better tanks for ARR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravor
Comparatively at ARR, the tanks fare like this(Excluding all contemporary CDs)
PLD:
Sheltron
Hallowed Ground
WAR:
Thrill of battle
Thorns effect on vengeance
Storm's Path(250 Potency)
Holmang
DRK:
Dark Mind
Soul Eater(300 Potency heal)
...Living Dead(Actually tolerable for ARR)
GUN:
Camouflage
Brutal Shell(200 Potency heal)
Aurora
Superbollide
As someone previously mentioned, Gunbreaker clearly has an advantage over the tanks.
DRK however is also relatively strong, possessing the strongest rotation heal... not to mention spammable OGCD skills in the form of Edge and Flood of Darkness(That you can generally execute with little regard to MP).
Paladin is shaping up to be a fantastic tank this expansion, but mainly for Endwalker content.
Most of the bluffs to their kit manifest in the form of traits acquired at level 82 and above(Including the heals for Holy Spirit and Circle), while Clemency received 2 nerfs(No requisecat buff and a 200 potency reduction).
So yeah, Paladin will be rewarding endgame, but the leveling process will be a bit rough.