To start with. Im not a veteran player and i cant give a damn about how it used to be in whatever content before. Im just a player who started playing since SHB. After playing all 4 tanks i do feel like DRK is unfair treated compare to other tanks.
1. TBN: a defensive cd bind with dps output. U gonna make sure it pops which requires knowledgement of the fight in and out. And it's not good enough to take majority of the endgame tankbusters.
2. Bloodweapon: well.. i m not sure about what to say about it. If Delirium can be changed why not bloodweapon? Pretty much the same issue as others has with Delirium unless ppl dont know u can fit 5 gcds into it instead of 4.
3. Living dead: isn't 100% hp a bit too much to remove the debuff? So many healers complain whenever they see a DRK being MT.
4. Rotations: DRK rotations feel more "busy" compare to War and PLD. Yet it doesnt feel more rewarding cause of dps output. Let's just skip GNB ok? U have no idea how often i have to switch to GNB cause "some"of the healers.
So sum it all up. The cons of DRK is also what makes this job so much more interesting for me to play compare to others. I actually have to use my brain and learn the timing of the fight instead of just pressing whatever cd i have like some other jobs. But I do believe DRK deserves more potency output to compensate the cons of the job if nothing changes.
DRK vs Other tanks
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10-24-2021, 09:28 PMRyomaUchiDRK vs Other tanks
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10-24-2021, 10:20 PMAelin_Ashryver
I wouldn't even say DRK rotation is more busy at all. You blow everything in opener and then ur stuck doing 123 and ogcd slash when u have the mana till they all come back up. It feels slow and boring as all hell. TBN is not at all rewarding, your only reward is having your normal dps output. Cucked warrior clone is all DRK is atm imo.
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10-24-2021, 10:56 PMRyomaUchiu just proved my 2nd point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver
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10-27-2021, 02:31 PMHalfgeeek
DRK suffers from being WAR-lite.
It seems busier, but its front-loaded, alpha strike, after your MP is gone, you're gimped for the rest of the fight.
While WAR gains Infuriate charges based on time, and Inner Release is nearing ready again for huge burst.
TBN will be worse in EW due to scaled HP. If tanks have 80K, thats a 20K shield.
As a SCH healer, I really don't like Living Dead. :p Have to save Recitation to Emergency Tactics Adlo just for DRK..
DRK needs a better identity, and not copy the blood/rage mechanic and Berserk/Inner Release-lite system. Until it gets major revamps, even if they buff Living Dead or a few minor thing, in the end, it's still WAR-lite. -
10-27-2021, 03:46 PMMagiusNecros
Paladin, Gunbreaker, and Warrior are all evolving as jobs. Dark Knight is just stagnating or just getting worse with each expansion.
TBN - Factor in HP squish and TBN is objectively better or worse based on less total HP means weaker shield. Bad for mitigation but good for likelihood it will break for one free Flood or Edge. Currently Tanks have over 100k, if the stat squish and Media Tour is anything go by you are looking at what 65k HP at 90?
So that 25% shield goes from 25k damage shield to 16.2k. Big OOF considering DRK has little to no HP sustain.
15 second recast. Costs 3k MP.
Holy Sheltron - Blocks attacks for 8 seconds, 4s of 15% reduced damage that will stack with block so probably 30% mitigation for 4s, gives you a 250 potency regen over 10 seconds.
5 second recast. Cost 50 Oath gauge.
Bloodwhetting - 10% reduced damage for 8s, additional mitigation of 10% so 20% stacked, weaponskills heal for 400 potency each for 8s so 4 weaponskills therefore 1200 heal potency, 400 potency damage shield.
Heart of Corundum - 15% mitigation 8s, 15% additional mitigation for 4s so effectively 30% mitigation, Excog effect if you reach 50% HP or effect expires so you get a big heal.
I dunno man looks like these TBN successors are leagues better then the original.
And that's just a comparison for just the TBN type skills. -
10-27-2021, 06:03 PMHalfgeeekIt's worse than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiusNecros
Currently tanks have 200K end-game. TBN is 50K shield, quite beefy.
Come EW, we're looking at 60-80K HP, so 15-20K shield only.
There's no way it's even close to Bloodwhetting, 20% DR and total 1600 potency self-healing. -
10-27-2021, 07:32 PMJOsha
I agree.
As Much as I like TBN its true that it isn't anywhere as useful as it is if you don't know the fight beforehand, Otherwise its a great CD but your point still stands.
Absolutely hate Living Dead too, GNB's invul is meme'd upon but i honestly think DRK's is the worst. -
10-27-2021, 10:42 PMHanayumi
While I like the idea of living dead, it really does need a change so all healers can deal with it just fine, why not just make it esuna-able instead? Still need a heal or 2 to bring the Drk up from 1hp, but the overall effect being removed by esuna would even things out for healers.
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10-28-2021, 03:10 AMArthurATDayne
And something else that PLD, WAR & even GNB have in common on top of those awesome Level 82 Upgrades to their 25s CD Mitigation... They All have better Self Healing Sustain skills they can use vs Dark Knight's fluff junk Abyssal Drain skill.
We know WAR & PLD are Comeback Kings when things go south quickly or in open world Bozja, but GNB looks like it's going to have way more longevity vs DRK with Heart of Corundum and also...
If it was a choice between DRK's fluff junk Abyssal Drain/1,2,3 combo vs GNB's Aurora Heal Over Time (Endwalker 2 charges!) I'd take Aurora AND the 1,2 combo spam for Healing :P
As an aside, I didn't take GNB as seriously before because I'm not a fan of Heart of Stone (I thought it was lackluster for a 25s mitigation cooldown) and wasted too much time on DRK because Big Greatswords, but these Endwalker changes are just so damn good to pass up.
I really believe those online rumors of SquareEnix purposely making DRK shittier to get more players to play the other 3 Tank Jobs might be true LMAO. Now people can't make excuses going "Well GNB is kinda screwed after blowing their personal mitigation like DRK so it's fair design". -
10-28-2021, 10:28 AMYhisa
Just stop
Ur comparing a 20k shield over % mitigation....
If a tank buster hit a tank for 20k
The dark knight TBN pops and gets a free flood proc
Now for the other tanks they have a % mitigation, if they get hit for 20k with bloodwhetting they prevented 3k damage
TBN >>>> bloodwhetting in this situation
U all forget NO ONE KNOWS how hard the the new tank busters will hit for
With the above hit for 20k tank buster Vs 20k tbn...... For the other tanks to get the "same" value those tanks need to be hit for 100k to mitigate 20k damage
(Not accounting the healings on them btw so it be slightly less, but no one knows how much the healing is at this current time) -
10-28-2021, 10:34 AMYhisa
I will agree the dark job is boring, once Ur front load is spend and the downtime is soooo mindless and feel like Ur falling asleep until u can unload again
But everyone is comparing "tooltip" numbers without actually knowing "ANY" of the new bosses or raid tier or even what the new tank busters will even do
For this everyone will legit have to wait until the first raid tier to come out to find out which tank is better
And I will pmsl if dark comes out on top because of TBN -
10-28-2021, 10:43 AMYhisa
For example
No one knows the actual "healing" potency just because it says 400 doesnt mean it's going to heal a lot, and the scaling number might be different on tanks in general in endwalker when it comes to self healing
All we know is tanks will have around 80k hp which is a 20k hp shield for the dark knight , also u can throw oblation on urself aswell so it's 20k hp shield + 10% damage reduction if u use this combo which just bumped up the dark knight shield to be even stronger....which have 2 charges btw -
10-28-2021, 03:00 PMHalfgeeek20K is not a tank buster for >80 content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
A tank buster is be designed to threaten a tank that has no DR cooldowns, as such it would have to hit way harder than that.
Give we've seen tanks around 65K hp, perhaps 80K HP with end-game gear.. TB will hit way harder than 20k. -
10-28-2021, 03:02 PMHalfgeeekThis so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanayumi
Esuna needs to be more useful overall for healers, and DRK's Living Dead being a raw healing test, makes some healers worse at dealing with it (SCH).. -
10-28-2021, 03:35 PMDaneloI stopped reading at “free flood proc”…. Getting the dark arts proc makes it DPS neutral at best. By comparison in ew the other tanks will benefit from their tbn-like abilities regardless of whether it’s used to it’s fullest potential and will also be not steal a DPS tool for a defensive cd…. They are better in almost everyway. TBN was a bandaid for how crappy LD is but now that war and gnb got theirs buffed plus these new tbn like abilities DRK is, comparatively, worse. And these jobs are not in a vacuum so the comparison matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
I’m just glad all this came out before I finished the last step on the relic for DRK… pass. -
10-28-2021, 04:58 PMIgnimortisExcept since tank HP is gonna be around 80k, any real tankbuster will hit for at least 60k to be remotely threatening. That's a normal-level tankbuster, not a savage-level one. The savage TB will hit for 100k and more, because they're designed around you using mitigation to survive. So a 20k shield is gonna outright lose to anything that gives ~18% DR or more in savage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
Which will keep it DPS neutral, since you spend 3k MP whether you use EoS or TBN. You know, all the other tanks get their defensive CDs at no cost to their offense by default.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
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10-30-2021, 09:52 PMArgyle_DarkheartThat's the same as saying that all the tanks will be nerfed massively in Endwalker because their HP will be lower. That's simply not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Halfgeeek
HP will be reduced in Endwalker, but so will incoming damage.
20k HP in Shadowbringers does not have the same value as 20k HP in Endwalker.