Hello, theres probly a thread about this somewhere within this Forum about the new "updates" to Gathering. Mainly the removal of all HQ mats (other than crafted items) Primarily Gathering. I myself am what I consider a Professional Gatherer. Its been for the most part my livelyhood within FF. I've spent hours, days, weeks, gathering for myself, my friends, my FC, and a bit on the side to sell, thousands of mats, all HQ, I would sell the NQ for cheap, because for me, it was easier crafting what i wanted with HQ mats to get an HQ item. I've heard some have complained this takes too long and is overly boring to gather for your own crafting mats. Well yes it is, but its something i've always done without complaint. I've spent millions of Gil on Aesthetes, melding, penta melding, days getting perfected skysteel tools. Just so I can have an easier time getting HQ mats for myself and others to use. Now I'm being told that there will no longer be HQ mats with endwalkers? To make it easier, to be able to increase yeild, to flood the market and drive prices down? To essentially kill the professional gatherer. I've tested a theory, i purchased a complete set of the lowest 80 gear, was all HQ cause that's all I could find, entire set cost about the same as two pieces of Aesthetes. No melds. I went to a lvl 80 legendary node, hit leafturn III and boom perfect gather of NQ triple star legendary cotton bolls... This is telling me, that with the new "update" to gathering, I just wasted millions of gil, theres no need for any of this special equipment anymore (except maybe for Fsh still, I understand they are still trying to figure this out) But yeah, I for one am a bit upset about the new changes coming, and i know some will say quit your whining, or troll me. Oh well. Its just upsetting that my chosen source of income in game is being taken from me because others felt it was too tedious and boring to do what a lot of us have done for years. Well they must understand, once all mats are NQ, crafters will have to struggle more to make an HQ item out of those mats, larger chance at failure, unless your specked out to do it easily. Again im just one person, a bit upset but will get over it, find a new source of income. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.
The new Endwalker update for Gatherers?
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10-10-2021, 09:21 PMKikiyoDThe new Endwalker update for Gatherers?
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10-10-2021, 09:50 PMMilkieTea
HQ gathered items essentially doubles the amount of space your gathered items take up. Crafting HQ gear does not require HQ items, therefore there is no need for gathered HQ drops.
They’re not doing this in some nefarious plan to screw gatherers over - they’re doing this to help. As it is now, inventory gets extremely bloated. -
10-10-2021, 11:32 PMCalystoIf crafting HQ gear does not require HQ mats, why can you still craft HQ intermediate items then ?Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkieTea
Even if it's not "some nefarious plan to screw gatherers", SE tends to sometime screw a role for "the greater good" that nobody asked for.
A stance preventing gathering/craft of HQ items was an easy thing to make if it was just that.
I think there are some others reasons tied to "to many items in game" , but this "fix" is only short term then . It would better to "fix the code" and/or spend a bit of money on the game -
10-11-2021, 04:14 AMKikiyoD
I never had issue with inventory space, i mean, it requires two spaces? one for the NQ and one for the HQ when gathering a certain item? In which the NQ is normally sold to MB or Merchant? So im not understanding the inventory space issue, with crafters, yeah you can use both, so double space use, but when i craft i used only HQ, therefore same amount of inventory space used as it will be when the update hits. I dont see this as a good reason to kill a part of the game that has been in place for years. If its a Yeild issue, why not increase the amount of yeild for NQ items, and in order to get HQ, make the person use leafturn I, II, III to get said HQ item, but the yeild drops to 1 item per hit. Ending and reprogramming an entire job set doesnt make sense just to conserve one spot in your inventory. If its truely an inventory issue, why not make a specific inventory bag that only mats can go into, same with fishing lures/baits. then the rest of your inventory slots will be free to have whatever you want in them? Also i never said to craft HQ items it was required to have HQ mats, just that it was easier to craft the HQ items with HQ mats.
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10-11-2021, 05:58 AMSqwallI think you’re missing the point of removing hq level items. Gathering in this game literally drives the ENTIRE market/crafting economy. It always has and always will. Removing hq drops makes gathering even easier and faster. I feel crafting got the short end of the stick here as they will more then likely have to purchase/use more gathered items. I’m guessing something like craft something normally, but add a certain item to make it hq.Quote:
Originally Posted by KikiyoD
Believe it or not but I’m pretty sure gathering was always brain dead. I have never once thought hey crafting needs to be more complex. Because it’s not. Could it be yes, but that is where collectibles made gathering with choices. Gathering has an entire meta and it’s collectibles. I can spend 2 hours farming seals and purchase a bunch of materia. Or maybe some bait for fishing. Or I can sell it all on the mb. Selling a bunch of low level mats is great. But that stuffs for chumps. I gather the Mats that are annoying. The more annoying. The more Gil. That’s basic economics. -
10-11-2021, 06:28 AMKikiyoD
People purchasing gathered mats for crafting is a choice. I personally always gathered my own mats for crafting. 100% profit. So economically, arent it getting the bigger bang for my time gathering my own HQ or NQ mats? Its not the mats driving the market higher, its people not wanting to go for the High end mats, and even the low end mats themselves, so its quicker to buy what some one else had gone out and gathered. As far as the market being driven up? I have characters on two different servers, both economies are polar opposites. where my main character is, there are gatherers/crafters out the yin yang, so mats/items dont go for extra high prices, with exception of the timed mats that you can only get a few per game hour. On my alts server theres few gatherers/crafters, so everything is super expensive. Not only mats, but the items created with the mats. The economies are run by supply and demand (like in the real world) if you dont want to get your own supplies, then your going to buy them from some one who has those supplys. Besides when did this turn into an economics lesson? Yes i said i made my gil by gathering, and honestly its not an amount most people would consider amazing, its just enough here and there to buy something once in a while when i want to. Ive done all MSQ so gathering is just something i do when im not doing any content, helping a friend, for the FC, and just to pass the time. So i may be a chump, but im a penta melded chump that can gather anything currently in the game at HQ (besides FSH, thats random as hell)
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10-11-2021, 02:51 PMJojoyaYou say you've been doing it for weeks but not for months. If that's the case, you're probably lacking sufficient experience to understand what happens as we move from one expansion to the next. There are always systems changes for MMO expansion launches that change what we're used to doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by KikiyoD
It's only the gathered materials that will no longer be HQ. Crafted materials can still be HQ for making HQ final products. Naturally, starting with HQ raw materials will make it easier to craft HQ intermediate materials because you can drop several of the steps you would normally need to increase quality. That doesn't mean that HQ raw materials have been needed to craft HQ materials this expansion because they haven't.
I'm not certain why you feel gathering being boring has anything to do with removal of HQ materials. It doesn't. The change is being made to clean out some inventory bloat and make room on the marketboard for new items to be listed.Quote:
Originally Posted by KikiyoD
It's not going to do anything to the "professional gatherer" other than free up inventory space so you don't have to head to a summoning bell as often. There are still going to be players like me willing to pay you for your time gathering so we don't have to do it ourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by KikiyoD
We don't know what changes SE will be making to gathering and crafting next expansion other than HQ raw materials can no longer be gathered. Those have yet to be announced.Quote:
Originally Posted by KikiyoD
I'm not certain why you're complaining that you were able to gather from the node when nothing about current gathering has changed. The main barrier has always been acquiring the folklore tome, not a need to equip cutting edge gear. Gear requirements have always been fairly low to access a node. You could have been gathering with that other set of gear all along. It was your choice to go with a more expensive set of gear so you could get a higher percentage of HQ items. That is still relevant to crafting right now for those who want the shortcuts offered by HQ raw materials.
Your gil would have been "wasted" regardless. Every time there's a new expansion and a new level cap, we need to get new gear for the new end game nodes. You seem to have entered the game late and so got a lesser return on your investment compared to those of us who crafted and pentamelded our Aesthete gear when it was originally released in 5.3 (over a year ago).
Your feelings are your feelings but I assure you that there's no need to worry. It will all work out.Quote:
Originally Posted by KikiyoD
Your chosen source of income - gathering - is not being taken away from you. You'll still be able to make gil from gathering because there will still be great demand for raw materials. One of the complaints about gathering, as you pointed out, is that it's boring. There will always be others will to pay gatherers to do the work for them.
This will be especially true at the start of Endwalker when end game crafters are going to be in a rush to power level their crafting classes to prepare for the first crafted endgame gear release in 6.05. Not all of them do their own gathering so they, along with others who enjoy crafting but not gathering, will be paying premium prices for all the new materials needed.
If you've never been at level cap for a MMO expansion launch before, get ready for chaos.
Probably because there will always be those players who never really understand how to use their crafting actions and so need the HQ "crutch" to have a better chance of getting HQ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calysto
It could be that SE will be increasing quality difficulty in Endwalker so those HQ intermediate materials will be needed to guarantee a HQ result. Part of the current problem with bots is that crafting overall was made too easy this expansion.
There's a good chance that Exarchic difficulty was a test for the quality changes. Getting HQ intermediate from all NQ raw is fairly easy even with Handsaint. But pentamelded Aesthete still needs a dose of good RNG to get HQ final craft if the crafter isn't using at least a couple of HQ intermediates (not counting the Aethersands since those are currently all HQ).
Sounds like you were focused on only gathering a few different types of items at a time.Quote:
Originally Posted by KikiyoD
When I'm going on a gathering spree for what I need, I may be getting up to 20 different items and that means up to 40 different inventory spaces needed depending on HQ procs (sometimes I run out of GP for Pick Clean). Then there are the non-gathered materials also required for making the intermediate crafts on end game gear along with the intermediate crafts themselves. It's rare that I'll only get the exact amount of raw materials I need when gathering which means I'll still have some left once I'm finished making my intermediates. That all adds up fast compared to what little space you need if you're just gathering a couple of different items and then immediately listing them on the MB.
Personally I wouldn't have a problem with SE saying "no more HQ intermediate materials either" because I don't need them. But that would really upset your customers who feel like they need something HQ to complete their crafts. -
10-11-2021, 09:03 PMKikiyoD
Could you be more insulting, yes i said, ive gathered for hours, days, weeks... im given a list by friends, fc, sometimes that list may take me a few hours, sometimes a few days, once in a while a week or more... Ive been gathering for a year... im not some noob. You say no one needs/wants HQ and its my own fault for wasting my gil and time getting the best equipment for gathering HQ? Have you looked at your own MB, people are buying HQ, hell if youve done the Job Quest, its forced into your brain.. HQ this, HQ that, give me HQ.. Instead of just insulting me, youve insulted everyone thats ever used HQ mats to make HQ items, because HQ (that the game created to be used) is a crutch.. sorry not everyone can afford to be perfect and have no trouble with NQ mats. Yes i agree, there is a learning curve that people will have to learn to deal with, but have you ever tried to HQ an item with the given quest armors? Which by the way some will be stuck with doing because guess what, the mat industry isnt the only thing driving prices up.. Its typical supply/demand even with the crafting... We as a people set our own prices.. You cant tell me youve never had to use HQ mats to HQ something crafted, no one is that perfect unless you started the game with max armors, tools, melds.. So dont give me that crap that HQ is a total crutch. Oh ive never experiance changes in an MMO? Ive played them all, you assume I am just some whining noob, ive seen changes, mostly buffing or debuffing a Damage, mage, or tank. Ive never seen a game basically obliterate an industry. https://www.siliconera.com/yoshi-p-w...e-as-possible/ either this person miss quoted him and he needs to sue them, or theres two sides to this argument, one being the Inventory.. the other being this, to dumb down gathering, to jam up the MB with mats and reduce prices, to make it easier to aquire said mats.. You say ill still have my income? Not when theres so much NQ on the market that it all drops to 1g, wont be worth gathering, so i will just stick with my friends and family in the FC and gather for myself and them. You seem to have answers for everything, Thank you for your input. Im not perfect, i dont think anyone is or could be, but i have a right to feel angry about this situation, because it does effect how i play the game. I know you keep harping, you can live without HQ mats, we all will have to learn to live with it, just dont go around assuming that some one venting their thoughts knows nothing.
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10-11-2021, 09:56 PMSqwall
I don't understand this argument. You're saying you pentamelded to get HQ primarily, but we are telling you HQ mats are not really needed for high end crafting. To each his own I suppose, but I have never seen the benefits of melding for perception. Maybe when you're trying to get your Skysteel relics as those are entirely dependent on HQ mat turn in.
For example I am pentamelded for GP/gathering yield. Why, because I know that I don't need HQ to craft a 510 atheses or exarch piece of gear. SOO when they say HQ items for gathering is being removed....I personally don't care because I never really needed them. Now can I sell the overages that I gathered from a day of gathering absolutely. Is it going to make a difference in 6.0...not really. I'm still going to gather mats to craft, and that fact that I don't have to sell an item with 2 different price points is kind of nice.
At the end of the day it's NQ that I can turn a profit on time and time again. Why? Higher volume. I can farm 500 mithrite sand in about 30-45 min and make 200 per unit = 100,000 gil. That's 3,333 gil per minute.
If I was gunning for HQ mithrite sand, that would take hours (6 hours for 500) and knowing NOBODY needed it for dwarven nuggets to HQ them. But for the example... that's keep the same math. 500 HQ at maybe 400 gil per unit = 200,000 gil. 360min/200,000 = 555 gil per min.
3,333 - 555 = 2,778 gil is lost per min when farming HQ. Personally this makes me uneasy just thinking about all the time when gunning for HQ only, all the extra materia used and melded, the amount of gil used to pentameld astheses gathering gear.
I have made countless spread sheets on increasing my gil gain per hour and NQ win's nearly every single time. And it's all due to yield per min and time spent. Whatever get's you to the MB faster always makes the most money. I'm happy HQ gathered mats are going away, makes more room for other mats.
When 5.3 came out I made a killing on HQ mats, but it was short-lived. MAYBE a 48 hour period of selling HQ blue crabs at 10,000 gil a pop, but then people got there fully pentamelded ahestes crafting gear. Price dropped and NQ was being sold for 2,000 per crab. -
10-12-2021, 09:25 AMJojoyaYou asked for us to tell you if you were wrong. If you feel insulted, that's a you problem. All I was doing was addressing your points as you requested.Quote:
Originally Posted by KikiyoD
I did say no one needs HQ raw materials. I never said no one wanted them. There are always those who want a short cut.
It was your choice to spend millions of gil on HQ Aesthete and pentamelding so yes, it's your fault in that case if you feel like you wasted the gil. There were other options you could have chosen. But you've also implied you've made a fair amount of gil from selling HQ materials gathered in the past year using that gear. Was it really a waste in that case? It's not like you would have been using that gear past leveling in Endwalker. The 6.0 end game crafting/gathering will require new sets of gear to meet stat requirements.
I never said people don't buy HQ off the MB. But have you really looked at prices on the MB closely? HQ for many materials frequently is selling for about the same price as NQ because the demand for HQ is so low. A lot of the HQ which does sell isn't selling because the buyer wants HQ. It's selling because the buyer will spend less by purchasing that specific stack. So do I buy HQ sometimes? Yes, when it's the cheapest way to get the quantity I need. I then turn around and lower it to NQ to save inventory space.
Have I tried making HQ items with the NQ quest reward gear? Of course. I've done it many times. Just to make things more interesting for myself when leveling a new alt I use quest rewards then fill in any missing gear with what I craft myself. Are the items I craft for myself HQ? Past level 20 gear of course because it's easy enough to do even when I only have NQ materials to work with. I will say that the HW 51-54 recipes are a pain in the neck with only NQ ARR quest gear and materials because they were balanced around ARR end game gear that no one wants to bother to grind out while leveling. That's one area I hope SE addresses.
If supply is so low it's driving up prices, then that's an opportunity for a leveling crafter to profit while earning XP. New crafters shouldn't be complaining. They should be capitalizing on it. Someone who is leveling crafting shouldn't be relying on the MB for their gear - they should be making it themselves. Obviously that would be different for someone who is only leveling gathering, but most gatherers will have crafting friends willing to make the gear if provided the materials (I do that a lot for friends and have even done it for players I've randomly met while gathering when I hear the miss sound effect).
Yes, when I first started crafting I was using HQ materials because I didn't know what I was doing. But I also chose to become a better crafter so it would no longer be necessary. If the HQ crutch had never been there in the first place, I would have had the incentive to learn sooner. Crafting is a math puzzle. There's no physical skill involved. My approach is if someone else can do it, then so can I. At times when I was first learning (long before the Calculations window was added), it meant I pulled out a pencil, paper and a calculator so I could see how the numbers fit together.
Sorry, I'm going to disagre with you here. HQ raw materials is 100% a crutch until such time as SE makes it impossible to reliably get HQ materials from only NQ materials. You have your opinion on the subject. That is mine.
Please don't exaggerate. There aren't enough hours in a person's life to have played every single MMO out there. Not even Josh Strife Hayes has done it though he's trying so we don't have to play the bad ones.
When you talk like a whining noob, people are going to assume you're a whining noob. If you don't want them to make that assumption, don't talk like one.
We don't know that gathering is being dumbed down. We don't know what changes they're making yet. It could be they came up with new ways of making Perception relevant beyond node bonuses and Pick Clean yield. Personally, I would love to see Hidden items make a comeback using Perception based skills. That would add back some of the complexity. Wait for the live letter. Panic at that point if all your worst fears are confirmed.
But go ahead and panic over your fears of a MB crash if you want. HQ materials were never that large a percentage of what was sold (not that you would have noticed since you were mainly selling HQ). If anything you should be happy since by your reasoning, removal of HQ materials means crafters will fail to produce HQ more often. Wouldn't that mean they need to buy even more NQ materials to try again? More demand means prices go up.
Again, you feel the way you feel. We can't invalidate that. All we can do is try to reassure you that it's not going to be the catastrophe you envision. There will still be profit to be made from gathering.
No one has said you know nothing but clearly there is more you have to learn. -
10-12-2021, 09:35 PMSqwall
I'll be honest here. Crafting and gathering in this game is by far the most complex iteration out of ANY MMO out there (EvE online might have the #1 spot). Making miner/botanist/fisher it's own job I found to be very ambitious. And the same goes for all the crafting jobs.
Shadowbringers has spoiled crafting and gathering CONSIDERABLY. Although, I do miss the more complex crafting in ARR and Heavensward, but I don't want to go backwards as that type of crafting was cryptic and required quite a bit of know how.
My guess is SE will possibly try to make it harder to macro a craft to prevent high supply on coveted items, and in an attempt to stave off insane competition of "the undercutting game" that it currently is now. I don't have time to sit there and constantly adjust all my posting. In a expansion or patch week that is the one thing that I can't STAND is that I just can't get away from the retainer bell due to bot's undercutting and people driving the price of something into the basement.
I didn't become a good crafter until it was to late. Late stormblood when I really started to focus and spent a crap load of gil to get into the high end crafting game. Boy did I have it all wrong, and I learned real fast on what was a waste of time and what made me the most profits.
Crafting and Gathering in this game is sooo much better then any other game. Why? Because like you are doing now, you can be specifically a gatherer and be ok. You can lose yourself in the Market Board for days on end....I know I have. And at the end of the week when I empty the pockets of my retainers to count up my haul...that's a good feeling. -
10-15-2021, 07:52 AMTheRealQuah
Of course you have "wasted" your money. The new expansion coming out and going up 10 levels means new gear will be needed whether this change was made or not. Complaining about wasting your money though is the same as saying raiders wasted their time getting BiS when it's going to change, or players wasting their time on the relic weapon seeing as better ones will be coming soon.
Can you even waste fictitious money?
Secondly, the reason that NQ items currently sell for less is because HQ exist. When HQ items don't exist anymore then you will be able to sell the NQ ones for more. People still want them. The demand for items will still be there. More people will be buying NQ items instead of HQ, so the minimum price NQ sells for will increase.
People will still be able to make tons of money selling gathered mats.
Removing HQ is actually one of the best things they can do for the game. It's thousands of items that the servers do not have to track anymore and will massively help with the game infrastructure. It's likely a forced change, come about by the global transistor shortage.