I hate expert crafting

To much RNG and can never get the quality built up due to it. I seen some macros that almost let you get the minimum quality possibly. If I may ask who can I blame for this hot mess lol. Couldn't leave well enough alone

a lot of it will depend heavily on your rotation and gearing.

I typically can get maximum quality easily with food and my gear.

definitely if you ware crafting exarchic it will depend on what you are using rotation wise. what are your stats like?

non-specialist 2764/2796/554. specialist 2784/2816/569

*wince* that Crafting Point is just so low.

Control exceeds the amount needed with buff to craft the hardest items, but it's never fun to remove pentameld and start over.

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Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

non-specialist 2764/2796/554. specialist 2784/2816/569

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that should easily be enough to HQ things, better than what I normally run even.

I am assuming you are also using hq chili crab and hq cunning craftsmans syrup as well?

If that is the case, then the rotation is whats killing your quality.

I either get normal most of the time and not pliat, center etc that much. I went by a guide for materia melding guess it's still not high enough -.- Feel liike saying screw the skybuilder tool and just be happy with my HQ stuff

something I also gave up was macros for the current tier end game crafts unless its the raw materials or alkahests since it gave me the ability to take advantage of crits and save CP I have it all memorized now, but I basically run this manually, and I have no problem with probably 98% HQ rate. doing it "by hand" is a bit more time consuming, but it works for me

/ac "Reflect" <wait.3>
/ac "Manipulation" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Manipulation" <wait.2>


/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Great Strides" <wait.2>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <wait.3>
/ac "Name of the Elements" <wait.2>
/ac "Veneration" <wait.2>
/ac "Brand of the Elements" <wait.3>
/ac "Brand of the Elements" <wait.3>
/ac "Groundwork" <wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis" <wait.3>

oooh, this is for skybuilder? yeah, I seriously dislike that stuff. my suggestion is only for non skybuilder things. sorry

I just would like to get it for possibly glam down the way but considering how random and difficult it is

I get the idea behind expert crafting is using RNG to battle macro-able craft.



In the end, it boils down "if condition A happens, press button X", until you reach the limit of your CP. Gathering collectibles do the same thing, but it feels much more engaging.



I think expert crafting should have a new UI and a more intriguing mechanic.

With the removal of HQ gathered items, SE wanting to put an end to macro crafting, and changes to either the formulas or all equips in general to accommodate the loss of stats from belts, I can't help but be a bit suspicious that they're going to to shift all of crafting towards the expert way of doing things. I just hope that's as far as they take it though, and don't do a repeat of the goddamned dumpster fire that was 3.1~ high-end crafting and gathering.

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Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

To much RNG ?

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When you have the stat and the right cycle, it's 100% young newbie, even from NQ.

I am wondering if when we are 90 it will be just a couple buttons. Using 100% fill quality skill or they will nerf that.

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Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

To much RNG and can never get the quality built up due to it. I seen some macros that almost let you get the minimum quality possibly. If I may ask who can I blame for this hot mess lol. Couldn't leave well enough alone

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Expert was intended for end game crafters who like a challenge, not for the average crafter. Personally, I've have fun with it even the rewards are a bit lacking compared to normal crafting.

If you don't enjoy it, don't do it. If you're just trying to get your Skybuilder tools and you're on the last part, use one of the macros that will get you minimum required rating.

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Originally Posted by Limecat

With the removal of HQ gathered items, SE wanting to put an end to macro crafting, and changes to either the formulas or all equips in general to accommodate the loss of stats from belts, I can't help but be a bit suspicious that they're going to to shift all of crafting towards the expert way of doing things. I just hope that's as far as they take it though, and don't do a repeat of the goddamned dumpster fire that was 3.1~ high-end crafting and gathering.

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I doubt that. Expert will continue to be the "hardcore" side game within crafting. They want crafting in general, including Master, to be accessible.

This is just my suggestion on expert crafting, start with muscle memory and try to proc mallable status in the 5 turn, use veneration, manipulation and inner quite, etc and when you get mallable, use rapid synthesis, if that fail and you lose your muscle memory just reset to not waste time, i get my 100 expert crafting this way, if the start not working, you can at least save time to not do the rest

Expert Crafting feels like a return to ARR endgame crafting... which I actually welcome.

Regular crafting has become way too simple and everything can be accomplished with enough stats and brute force macros.

For now, Expert crafting is isolated to side content... curious to see if they'll try to roll over any of the stuff from 80 expert crafting into 90 endgame crafting in EW.

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Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

To much RNG and can never get the quality built up due to it. I seen some macros that almost let you get the minimum quality possibly. If I may ask who can I blame for this hot mess lol. Couldn't leave well enough alone

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Heaven forbid the crafting community gets something challenging to do.

Expert crafts aren't needed for anything other than personal achievements. If you enjoy getting personal achievements then you will enjoy trying to learn expert crafts.

Expert crafting mechanics aren’t really meant for the average player that relies on macros to craft everything. You have to really understand what you’re doing kind of like a savage or ultimate raid. Hence the word “expert”

Macro's do....not....equal 100% thats all I will say on that.

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Originally Posted by Krojack

Heaven forbid the crafting community gets something challenging to do.

Expert crafts aren't needed for anything other than personal achievements. If you enjoy getting personal achievements then you will enjoy trying to learn expert crafts.

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As an omnicrafter who also has the Skybuilder version, I'm curious how you don't realize that these relics are better than the penta-meleded Aesthete's? Unless I'm missing something, that seems to qualify as something more than "personal achievements".

If your crafting system results in macros being used most of the time, that's a flaw in your system. People aren't crafting because they want to, but because they feel that they have to. Especially with how easily crafters make Gil.

I don't know a single average non crafter that's swimming in tens to hundreds of millions of gil, but I know crafters that are, and whenever asked how to make money, the response is "it's so easy! Coffee biscuits!"

It makes me hate omnicrafters. Smugness. Makes me ill.

But yeah, if people are macroing your crafting, there's a flaw with the system.

As for solutions, well, they could try blacklisting crafter actions from the macro syntax. That'd break them all right there.

who actually enjoys crafting in any video game?
this game probably has one of the best crafting systems ive come across but thats not saying much.

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Originally Posted by Menriq

As an omnicrafter who also has the Skybuilder version, I'm curious how you don't realize that these relics are better than the penta-meleded Aesthete's? Unless I'm missing something, that seems to qualify as something more than "personal achievements".

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Because the Skybuilder weapon is a relic which is a personal achievement thing. I have one skybuilder weapon, for my BSM, however I can craft HQ 4 star items with all of my crafters just fine without it. The ONLY thing having the skybuilder tool for my BSM helps me with is, wait for it, Expert crafting.

Oh jeez, the Skybuilder tools were just annoying. Going 33 steps without a single Pliant. There is definitely far too much RNG.

Having events that you need to react to isn't a bad thing. That's one thing I enjoyed about EQII's crafting. But they algorithm for the RNG is far too random. And they would benefit from boosts for reacting to the events, maybe something like successfully reacting to one increases the likelihood of the next, etc. Just something more interactive and intriguing.

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Originally Posted by _Pigzig

who actually enjoys crafting in any video game?
this game probably has one of the best crafting systems ive come across but thats not saying much.

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I see you have a deep obession with the word pigzig *whips out pad and pen* So when did you first become attach to this word.

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Originally Posted by _Pigzig

who actually enjoys crafting in any video game?
this game probably has one of the best crafting systems ive come across but thats not saying much.

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\o

First thing I do in any MMO is look for the tradeskill system. I've crafted more in this game than any other activity combined. I also enjoy it when it's included in single player games, too.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

I see you have a deep obession with the word pigzig *whips out pad and pen* So when did you first become attach to this word.

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made it up as a kid when my cousin stole "zugbop" and I needed a new name
im 31 now

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Originally Posted by Vrankyl

Because the Skybuilder weapon is a relic which is a personal achievement thing. I have one skybuilder weapon, for my BSM, however I can craft HQ 4 star items with all of my crafters just fine without it. The ONLY thing having the skybuilder tool for my BSM helps me with is, wait for it, Expert crafting.

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So you admit it's better than penta-melded, which by definition is, wait for it, more than just a personal achievement. That's like saying you wouldn't take raid drops because you can get the same ilevel gear with tomes, even though most classes use a combination for the best itemization.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

To much RNG and can never get the quality built up due to it. I seen some macros that almost let you get the minimum quality possibly. If I may ask who can I blame for this hot mess lol. Couldn't leave well enough alone

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SE did come out and say that expert recipes would be difficult, and that they didn't want players to be able to just use a macro.

The crafters who were already taking on the starred recipes situationally are the players that are far more adept to take on the expert recipes. A big reason for this is because they don't use macros. Because they don't use macros, they also don't go online looking for them; nor do they drive themselves up the wall fighting with RNG to pentameld all their gear in order to qualify for said macros. The result is much easier time circumventing the various situations that happen while doing expert crafting.

If a player can go from reliably getting HQ with posted macros, to diddly squat (even losing their materials) when forced to free-craft; their system is working exactly as intended. That being said, even proficient crafters can still just get blasted with really crappy RNG. Sometimes the game simply says, "You're not maxing this one out bud. No matter what."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Menriq

As an omnicrafter who also has the Skybuilder version, I'm curious how you don't realize that these relics are better than the penta-meleded Aesthete's? Unless I'm missing something, that seems to qualify as something more than "personal achievements".

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https://i.imgur.com/Y5uM42t.jpg

Not a big difference. In fact, I stuck with my 490 melded tools because I wanted the extra control. I have more than enough crafting.

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Originally Posted by Menriq

So you admit it's better than penta-melded, which by definition is, wait for it, more than just a personal achievement. That's like saying you wouldn't take raid drops because you can get the same ilevel gear with tomes, even though most classes use a combination for the best itemization.

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Only if you are going to Expert craft. So if you want to go for the personal achievement crafting, then yes you are better off having the personal achievement crafting tool. If all you are doing is crafting normal items, then you can indeed ignore the existence of Skysteel tools. There is no need to go after it for any other reason than personal achievement. As someone else pointed out in some scenarios, depending on how you melded, your penta-melded tool can actually be better than the skysteel.

As a pterodon owner, all I can really add is that crafter’s delineations and Careful Observation are your friends.

Hi, am Saint and have finished all of the relic tools. My best advice is to watch YouTube vids and expect for your crafts to fail a lot until you start getting cozy with how they work.

Here's some vids I'd recommend as they also helped me learn:
https://youtu.be/xad1rGxpkOA (mainly for Ishgard restoration but it does touch on the basics and general theory for experts)

https://youtu.be/OuN8ZeND1xk (More specific for Skysteel tools and goes into possible scenarios you can encounter.)

If you happen to be in Primal and need some help, feel free to message me! I'd be happy to give some extra advice on top.

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Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

non-specialist 2764/2796/554. specialist 2784/2816/569

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/ac "Muscle Memory" <wait.3>
/ac "Inner Quiet" <wait.2>
/ac Manipulation <wait.2>
/ac Veneration <wait.2>
/ac "Waste Not" <wait.2>
/ac Groundwork <wait.3>
/ac Groundwork <wait.3>
/ac Groundwork <wait.3>
/ac "Preparatory Touch" <wait.3>
/ac Innovation <wait.2>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Prudent Touch" <wait.3>
/ac Manipulation <wait.2>
/echo Macro #1 finished <se.1>

/ac Innovation <wait.2>
/ac "Basic Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Standard Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Basic Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Standard Touch" <wait.3>
/ac Innovation <wait.2>
/ac Observe <wait.3>
/ac "Focused Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Great Strides" <wait.2>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <wait.3>
/ac "Basic Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Basic Synthesis" <wait.3>
/echo Craft finished <se.2>

Here. This requires a Specialist, HQ Chili Crab and HQ Cunning Syrup. It should reach tier 2 about 94% of the time dependent on a Pliant proc, otherwise just tier 1. Test it once or twice on a Trial Synthesis first with the mentioned consumables. It's a little longer than manual crafting but should get your Skysteel Tools done.

Otherwise I'd watch a few guides. I had a 97% rate of tier 3 quality across 8 Skysteel tools with similar stats to yours. Go for a Reflect opener if you dislike high rng, read up on finisher breakpoints and it's quite straightforward. Sure, it's frustrating when you've been used to plugging in a macro for years and you almost feel entitled to have the craft be easy because you have good gear and can make Master Recipe's (I don't mean that in a condescending way, I can understand it), but it's worth figuring out. It's quite satisfying when you do.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

*wince* that Crafting Point is just so low.

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All of their stats are fine.