Upset about 6.0? It's time to ditch the Scholar.

They literally said, and I quote: "With the Scholar there wasn't really much we would have changed significantly, uhh...we did make adjustments, uh-umm and part of it was changing or updating the behaviors of the pet..."

Really guys? I mean, REALLY?

It's clear they are dead-set on this job's design philosophy and are utterly ignoring any criticism directed their way. If we want to see the SCH become something better it's time to just put it up, stop logging into play the SCH, and let the players metrics finally get their attention. At this point nothing else will work.

All they really debuted was some stupid run-speed buff that doesn't even stack with Sprint. What a disappointment. The development team must honestly believe people actually enjoy spamming "Broil," which coincidentally we'll now be able to do on an even shorter cast timer.

So, please look forward to even more 1-button mashing. Or not.

It's time to move on and stop playing SCH IF you're unhappy about the choices Square Enix is making.

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Originally Posted by Truen

It's time to move on and stop playing SCH IF you're unhappy about the choices Square Enix is making.

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Already done. I haven't touched SCH in months and unless the media tour reveals some MAJOR additions to SCH that they kept secret for some reason it goes straight into the trash.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Already done. I haven't touched SCH in months and unless the media tour reveals some MAJOR additions to SCH that they kept secret for some reason it goes straight into the trash.

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I won't even touch it in EW, period. I have absolutely zero interest in it anymore. They literally laughed at the job and said screw you.

Enough is enough

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Originally Posted by FoxCh40s

I won't even touch it in EW, period. I have absolutely zero interest in it anymore. They literally laughed at the job and said screw you.

Enough is enough

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What's sad is that with all these people excited for summoner (myself included) it will result in a lot of SCH's at lvl 90 and SE can point to that and say "See? People have SCH at max level, they must like it!" when it might be completely inaccurate.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

What's sad is that with all these people excited for summoner (myself included) it will result in a lot of SCH's at lvl 90 and SE can point to that and say "See? People have SCH at max level, they must like it!" when it might be completely inaccurate.

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Even if it wasnt for smn, lot of people would probably level it , just because of a possible reward for getting all jobs to lvl 90, like the mount for ShB... :/

It hit especially hard for me.. Especially when im not particularly impressed with the changes to SMN. I mean, sure its nice and fancy to have new skills/animations. But I felt like losing pets and dots instead of improving it.. removed what made SMN felt unique from your traditional casters... To think that they even contemplated removing combat raise.. gives me shivers... and... scholar... rip... I felt like all of a sudden both jobs just got a lot less interesting.. Being new to the game, I only really played Arcanist-based jobs from the beginning, now im sad. I don't want to use an Ifrit/Titan/Garuda-themed spell.. at its core, its just a fancy Primal-themed spell, it wouldn't matter if Ifrit/Titan/Garuda showed up or not for 2 seconds to use a spell before disappearing then you'd proceed to cast your own spells as usual..

I will still give it a try when it releases, it at least deserves a chance..

A bit of a rant on SMN, but also SCH.. Sorry

When a job is so laughably bad it couldn't be made much worse if someone was paid to break it on purpose, you got a problem lol.

It's 'tactical' application of one button so distant from the glory of the past that you might as well just be punching things to death as a fisher. Someone must be having a laugh at SE if they think it's ok. Anyone I've worked with in that side of the world in the past, would be too embarrassed to showcase what they have thus far - comparatively its a joke and all too apparent compared to the effort invested elsewhere.

Lets not let it be said that SCH players didn't voice up. It was blatantly ignored. Hurr durr 'its all we got' just isn't good enough. Not when Healers have been dumbed down to absurdium already.

I was planning on making a thread pretty much stating the same once I got home from work, ty for saving me the task++

To quote Branded from another thread:

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

If a game is not fun for you dont play it. All you're doing is making yourself miserable.

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This is the absolute truth of the matter and for more reasons than just stated as above.

Look at how WHM was still ahead in duty participation vs AST for patch 3.2-3.3 despite the two being quite evenly matched. That led to AST being quite considerably overbuffed for 3.4, despite all the commentary that it was going to render WHM obsolete in Savage, WHM still saw very healthy casual usage and nothing was changed for 3.5 at which point Zurvan happened and WHM started getting effectively excluded from content.

4.0 is another example, SCH launched in a state where it was nigh obsolete in dungeons and was just a hateful undertuned mess (Far worse than it is now or likely will be come 6.0). Casuals didn't want to use it in dungeons, raiders fled to WHM/AST in Savage and it promptly got fixed faster than I've ever seen before.

TLDR: Don't like it, vote with your feet and play a different job. SE will notice the numbers shifting.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...748/image0.jpg

Honestly, assuming that the ACN jobs are still linked, this may be the first time since Brayflox Longstop I actually level ACN via SMN over SCH. I need more information on what SCH is getting, but I'm...Not really impressed.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...748/image0.jpg

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Is it bad if I laugh more at the "This is not the full list of additions and adjustments, only examples" part than I do at the edit? I seriously imagine them sitting around making these slides and being like:

"Well we need to include something on the Scholar slide. Doesn't need to be everything we changed, but just some examples."

"Uhh..."

"For the other roles we put their new expansion abilities and changes to their job gauge mostly. Just write how Endwalker Scholar is going to evolve from Shadowbringers Scholar and give people an idea of what's in store."

"S-sure... (crap, what the hell do I write? I didn't even play Shadowbringers Scholar. Nobody on the dev team did.)"

✓ Peloton: Griefer Edition added

"I'm gonna go for a smoke break. Can I start doing the DPS slides when I get back?"

"Yeah, sure."

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...748/image0.jpg

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This would be a hilarious addition to that healer meme thread that went around for a while.

I haven't ditched SCH. I will always be a SCH. SCH to me is like Woody is to Andy. However, if I was to look at the jobs I have leveled to max like tools in the shed; my SCH would be the tool collecting dust because while it is a great tool to have at first, it gets tossed aside after the groundwork is laid out.

IOW, SCH will definitely have its time in the sun when the new expansion comes out, and again and again as patches are released.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I was planning on making a thread pretty much stating the same once I got home from work, ty for saving me the task++

To quote Branded from another thread:



This is the absolute truth of the matter and for more reasons than just stated as above.

Look at how WHM was still ahead in duty participation vs AST for patch 3.2-3.3 despite the two being quite evenly matched. That led to AST being quite considerably overbuffed for 3.4, despite all the commentary that it was going to render WHM obsolete in Savage, WHM still saw very healthy casual usage and nothing was changed for 3.5 at which point Zurvan happened and WHM started getting effectively excluded from content.

4.0 is another example, SCH launched in a state where it was nigh obsolete in dungeons and was just a hateful undertuned mess (Far worse than it is now or likely will be come 6.0). Casuals didn't want to use it in dungeons, raiders fled to WHM/AST in Savage and it promptly got fixed faster than I've ever seen before.

TLDR: Don't like it, vote with your feet and play a different job. SE will notice the numbers shifting.

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To further emphasise this from a non-healer role. Look no further than Monk. It took forever but when Shadowbringers released and they literally changed nothing despite claiming they were "most proud" of Monk, it led to an immediate panic buff, followed by a sweeping overhaul they have since continued going into Endwalker.

Samurai is another example. Entirely meme'd throughout Stormblood for being weak in spite of it's supposed "top DPS" status, they actually made it extremely strong when the hype died down and Dragoon and Ninja's dominance wasn't touched.

Ultimately, the dev team only listens when player participation declines. If enough people dislike Scholar to the point it's by far the least played healer, you'll suddenly start seeing buffs and overhauls.

That new expansion live letter makes me so demoralized, I don't even want to log in anymore even though I got like a week of sub left.

Good thing I didn't preorder Endwalker. I'll just wait till it goes on sale in about a year or two. Just in time for the 7.0 live letter.

At the end of the day the things that made me stick through with SCH in spite of hating its overloaded state in Stormblood and poorly tuned state in Shadowbringers are going to keep me on it in spite of it getting no legitimate attention. Ya’ll make Sage FotM happen, I’m sticking to it for the same reasons my static’s healer vet stuck to WHM. Seething.

Arcanist for life.

So much Salt! Rivers and oceans of Salt! Yes this is what the Blood Lily needs to fully bloom. Just watch guys , I predict Scholar will be the go to raid shielder and the Sage wont be able to keep up with the demands. Sage is the flashy new dish but Scholar is the meat and potatoes when you get real hungry for a shield thats where your gonna go.

It's going to take SCHs not clearing the new raid series nearly as often as the SGE or the other healers for them to take a good hard look at the sorry state SCH is in. It angers me that SGE got all of the things I wanted for SCH. God, I'm angry.

If 5.0 didnt stop me from playing SCH then what makes you think 6.0 is going to?

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Ultimately, the dev team only listens when player participation declines. If enough people dislike Scholar to the point it's by far the least played healer, you'll suddenly start seeing buffs and overhauls.

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Is it not already the least-played healer in the game? Has the dev team not been receiving feedback/complaints all expansion long?

They can't think of anything new to add to SCH? Take one quick look at the healer forums.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

If 5.0 didnt stop me from playing SCH then what makes you think 6.0 is going to?

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/fistbump!

I'm keeping my hopes up and will adjust my opinion as more info comes out, but I'm probably just going to play sage in EW. Scholar has remained my favorite class for a long time, so I'll probably keep it leveled, but if Sage is truly as cool and as fun to play as it looks in the trailer, I have little reason to stick to SCH besides nostalgia.

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

Is it not already the least-played healer in the game?

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With only 3 healers and all content needing at least one healer to clear it, healer participation numbers get bloated compared to every other class in the game. Like, even imagining all 3 healers seeing equal amounts of play, all 3 would be among the most played jobs just from the fact they have to be there. A healer needs to be reaaaally bad compared to the other two to be at the bottom of job participation numbers. This is compounded by the fact that in 8 man content, if one healer is taken, youll almost always have to pick one of the other two. The only time a healer's participation was so low it was among the least played jobs was AST in eden's gate, and because of it it saw a few adjustments during the expasion.


However with a fourth healer in the equation (and one that fulfills the same role as sch, no less) youre no longer forced to pick between two options if another slot is already taken. Low participation of scholars could become pronounced enough that the devs might want to take action if they see it seeing as little play as ast did in 5.1.


With this in mind i will probably not level scholar until i see them make some changes, even if i like leveling my all healers first. AST and SGE look like plenty of fun to me from the trailer alone for me to be entertained for a few patches.

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

Is it not already the least-played healer in the game? Has the dev team not been receiving feedback/complaints all expansion long?

They can't think of anything new to add to SCH? Take one quick look at the healer forums.

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I think it is played a bit more than AST.
Data is from April, but it probably did not change much.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...11_april_2021/
https://i.imgur.com/DB6NyjN.png

And they did not say they cannot think of anything. They said they cannot think of anything "significant", which doesn't say much.
They did not say that for WHM, but from what we know, the only thing 'significant' that it got is a fancy new AoE HoT, which IMO, is not anything more significant than the new AoE shield that SCH got.

I agree with the sentiment of the thread.

If SGE offers what benefit I think it offers, I will just heal with that.

If SGE is offering more DPS options to a healer job that more people stick within than something like SCH, it might at least show that more DPS options aren't detrimental. And that SCH's want the benefit SGE offers.

That's on the basis of SGE being able to avoid the 1 button spam. Else, I might just stick with AST as a I did for ShB after hating SCH's changes. But sadly, AST wasn't very popular either because it got shafted too.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Ultimately, the dev team only listens when player participation declines. If enough people dislike Scholar to the point it's by far the least played healer, you'll suddenly start seeing buffs and overhauls.

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EXACTLY. To save the Scholar we have to quit playing it.

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Originally Posted by Garnix

And they did not say they cannot think of anything. They said they cannot think of anything "significant", which doesn't say much.
They did not say that for WHM, but from what we know, the only thing 'significant' that it got is a fancy new AoE HoT, which IMO, is not anything more significant than the new AoE shield that SCH got.

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If we ignore all the "lol SCH dead" memes for a moment then yes, WHM basically got shafted just as hard as SCH.

The difference is basically that WHM actually got some improvements with ShB, so people didn't go into the action reveal already pissed off.
For SCH on the other hand people have been complaining for over 2 years now and the trailer just told them that nothing is gonna change for another 2.

I'm just coming to realize Square Enix doesn't know how to design fun healers anymore; the entire dev team should be shifted. We need new people.

I haven't seen any of my friends like the Scholar changes; two of them are even Scholar mains and they were depressed with the state of the job after the latest live letter... Can there at least be more DPS actions added again? The lack of DPS variety for healers is kind of appalling at this point.

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Originally Posted by MellowMink

Can there at least be more DPS actions added again?

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Do we know Sage is the only 6.0 healer getting more DPS buttons? Forgive me if I missed it, but I don't remember them revealing the other healers kits.
How do we know what SCH's 6.0 DPS game looks like?

I mean, yes I think we can say we know what 6.0 Scholar kits will look like. From their own mouth they admitted there won't be changes coming except for some wacky runspeed buff that doesn't even stack with sprint.
And, I don't care about the faster cast time for "broil." I want to cast it LESS frequently, damn it all--not more!

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Originally Posted by Truen

I mean, yes I think we can say we know [...]

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Ah, so I didn't miss any info.
People are just working off inferences and speculation.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Ah, so I didn't miss any info.
People are just working off inferences and speculation.

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if they were adding more dps buttons they would have put it in the slides, it's a pretty big thing.

I wanna see SCH get Fester, Bane, and Bio III since SMNs not going to have them anymore. Move Biolysis to the fairy and have it on a 60s cooldown timer. At least we'll have more DoTs like we want. I'd say, "Have it cost 50 Fairy Gauge" but then we'd be back at the problem I have with current SCH which is we have to choose between healing and damage. While the Fey's Union is not great, it is still a healing resource, and I'd rather not be punished for healing.

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Originally Posted by Acece

if they were adding more dps buttons they would have put it in the slides, it's a pretty big thing.

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That is an compelling assertion, but without teeth or fact behind it.
It's easy to say that but we don't know if they would or would not have. Honestly, considering the way they treat healers,I'd expect them to show off the new healing moved the healers get instead of their DPS abilities (like they did).

Regardless of how likely we may feel it to be, just because no new ones were shown doesn't mean we've confirmed no new ones exist.

small reminder we had a thread titled "has anyone quit healing"
it reached 80 pages if memory serves, of people who quit in shb because of the awful mess healing became.

since they are continuing, it might be worth bringing it back

for the record, I found it galling they deleted nocturnal sect for no reason since Sage has tons of regens and barely any shields, and they also decided whm could keep holy with a stun because of "identity" after an entire expansion that set out to destroy identity. Then they proceeded to wreck Ast's identity further and now schs

I stopped playing sch in hw. I was a whm main in ARR and occasionaly played Sch (couldnt quite get to grips with it in ARR) and in hw, I played it a bit then fell in love with Ast. Didn't touch it much in SB since I still loved my Ast. I certainly refused to touch Sch or Ast in shb. Picked up my dusty old dreadwyrm cane from storage to heal as a salt mage.

Except I quit healing farily quick in shb because of how awful it was to play clipping everything and spamming glare constantly. Unless Ast gets its cards back and the new tools are at least decent (i had wanted some self buffing on Ast) it looks like ew will be my last expansion. If Ast is in a state that I can stomach, I might play it once in a while. It certainly wont be my main, and like in shb, i probably wont have a main because no job has the depth and playstyle i am after. If it isnt, that's sealed my journey in ff14 is over.
I play a game to have fun, and having fun in shb was difficult with such poor job gameplay across the board. Gnb was nice enough but its a rotation job and I've been wanting a resource job or a buffer with some depth/thought. Both became almost extinct in shb. I get bored of gnb fairly quickly, though i cant deny its nice for a short while.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

That is an compelling assertion, but without teeth or fact behind it.
It's easy to say that but we don't know if they would or would not have. Honestly, considering the way they treat healers,I'd expect them to show off the new healing moved the healers get instead of their DPS abilities (like they did).

Regardless of how likely we may feel it to be, just because no new ones were shown doesn't mean we've confirmed no new ones exist.

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Didn't they show all the dps abilities in the job trailer? they showed glare 2 holy 2 and such, same thing with sch they showed broi, bio, and art of war 2. Ast got a whole new phase of dps spells. they very clearly show dps spells.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

What's sad is that with all these people excited for summoner (myself included) it will result in a lot of SCH's at lvl 90 and SE can point to that and say "See? People have SCH at max level, they must like it!" when it might be completely inaccurate.

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Mm. With all the credit XIV gets for its storywriting, we often forget how good the developers are at spinning narratives, too...

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Originally Posted by Acece

Didn't they show all the dps abilities in the job trailer?

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Not necessarily. There are a few reasons an animation might not be included in the trailer.
The big one being that the job action trailer is almost never complete as not all animations might be done yet.
But also, the trailer is there to show new animations and traditionally it doesn't show animations that aren't changing (or, unlikely enough, any old animations that may be getting repurposed or coming back).

Again, it isn't looking likely SCH is getting more DPS buttons, but acting like we know what's fact is not helpful to the overall conversation. And I asked my initial question about SCH's kit because I thought someone had more facts to contribute.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...748/image0.jpg

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I laughed way too hard at this.

https://i.imgur.com/ycJhiAU.gif