No love for Sch

For those that want to see the Sch changes that it so badly needs, simply do not play Sch. Devs generally take a look the numbers when complaints are made...

Or they just grind it down like they did with MCH, numbers low let’s make it “accessible” and give it freaking Aoes so it will remain stagnant for 2 more years

https://c.tenor.com/ibaQezq_VuoAAAAC...dan-crying.gif

I may not main SCH, but I feel the pain for my fellow healers. Gotta pour one out for the SCH's out there who are disappointed :c

Really I think SCH will be fine. My assumptions here are WHM/SCH are gonna have the stronger heals/barriers, while AST/SGE have semi weaker potency in return for some other benefits.

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Originally Posted by Robert_Ilcri

Really I think SCH will be fine. My assumptions here are WHM/SCH are gonna have the stronger heals/barriers, while AST/SGE have semi weaker potency in return for some other benefits.

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You don't need that stronger heals. Jobs are designed to clear all content. When SCH will have stronger barriers and Sage will have other benefits - people will choose Sage. Remember WHM in HW / SB? Yeah...

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Or they just grind it down like they did with MCH, numbers low let’s make it “accessible” and give it freaking Aoes so it will remain stagnant for 2 more years

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They made Summoner awesome so that the increase in summoners will lead to an increase in scholars by default.

From watching the trailer and comparing SCH and SGE... SGE is just way more cooler and got a lot of love, probably considering it is the newest healer to join the bunch. SCH got what... like a less cooler peloton?

SCH ?
What class is this?

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

SCH ?
What class is this?

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Scholar, the now less cooler barrier healer which is unfortunate. Really was hoping they would be able to give Scholar some love

I think it can't be helped that there aren't many changes in SCH, but my friends are shocked at the way the producer said, "This is all we have".
My friend was really looking forward to it, but now she's losing her energy.
Couldn't the producer have said it in a more gentle way?

↓Japanese language
「SCH」に変更点が少ないのはしょうがないと思うのですが、それをプロデューサーが 「これくらいしかない」 と言い方にフレンドがショックを受けています。
フレンドはすごく楽しみにしていたのに、元気が無くなってしまいました。
もう少し優しい言い方は出来なかったのでしょうか

As a SCH main, I can't hide my disappointment with the in-combat sprint. *At least its a damage reduction as well?* But its odd. Could help for places like Savage Titan where you need to hide behind rock, but then run back to another rock. Something like that? /shrug? - It doesn't cost Aetherflow either so its basically a moving Sacred Soil w/out regen.

But Hum, If Excog is AOE heal that would be amazing. Art of War 2 looks good. Maybe tactical deployment got a buff. Who knows. But it certainly lacked the "flashy" from the other healers.

I also didn't see any new abilities costing aetherflow - so It will be interesting /good .

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Also Summoner making me want to play it again. FFXI inner main calling for me but SCH is not dead. It's just they know its a strong class as it is now.
We've been nerfed so many times. That the fact that they are making DPS - Broil - basically - cast times reduced is nice change.

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Edit:
They added speed run to boss. Mobs no longer exp gain. SCH is now good for speed run. ( =D )

im so disappointed, there is no way to describe it.
i'ts the very first time I'm not going to lvl up scholar first as my main in this expansion (since ARR). sage looks better in ! every ! single ! way ! possible !.
scholar is a mess of an identity, first it gets ripped off of all it's core abilities of arcanist, dumbed down in it's rotation and all the cool stuff gets pushed to summoner and now this underwhelming presentation of "new" skills.
can't say how disappointed I am, there is job bias in the dev team - and it shows so much.


I'm glad sage turned out this good at least, I love everything about it, from it's design, to the skills and I absolutely love the sound effects !! never looking back until scholar gets the attention it needs so much!
https://i.imgur.com/q6pcRTJ.jpg

The presentation for SCH was definitely lack luster but I'm making the heavily assumption that SCH is just shifting to a more pure Shield healer in a similar capacity that WHM is a better for prog mentality but not a post prog meta pick.

My gripe is more with the fixes SCH inherently needs in its kit from Pet Skill delay, to dissipation overwriting Pet placement (stay positioning) and a lack of some "action" on the job. Broil spam to Energy Drain is not exactly a fleshed out experience. So idk, Sage definitely looks strong coming out which I'm happy for just sad it comes at the expense of seemingly all of the SCH QoL stuff.

You never know but the lack of them saying any noticeable change was extremely telling.

[QUOTE=Otal;5660602]I think it can't be helped that there aren't many changes in SCH, but my friends are shocked at the way the producer said, "This is all we have".
My friend was really looking forward to it, but now she's losing her energy.
Couldn't the producer have said it in a more gentle way?


So one day Yoshi P was playing on his black mage and when he was just about to sneak in another Fire 4 cast before his timer ran out, a scholar rescued him and he dropped enochian. So now he hates scholars.

That’s the explanation I’m going with.

this is not the first expansion they do this to sch unfortunately ,
still sch was the first class i ever main when i started playing this game so even if it's the worst healer now i will still be maining it sadly but yeah this is really sad :((

I started playing SCH 4 days ago.






I already want to quit it but have no other healer leveled...

I know that in terms of how much each job makes you go "oooh! Ahhhh! Pretty!", Scholar was at the bottom. But one thing I don't see being picked up on much is the instant response of the fairy. That's something people were asking for right? Fey Blessing is pretty weak, but they could have (hopefully have) buffed it. With healers shifting into a clear "Main healer / main shielder" subtype (which worked beautifully in 2.X I should add), that should be a promising thing for SCH. SCH excelled when it was focussed more on shielding instead of trying to be the weird hybrid it is now that stands in AST's shadow (allegedly...even if it is the weakest healer it's still pretty good and it's all relative). Surely its healing and shielding skills will be refitted to a satisfying state? They don't need new heals with over the top green explosions to dazzle you in a trailer, they already have countless forms of heals, just need to rebalance each one. And if they're as satisfying as they were in ARR and HW, then great.

I mean, look at PLD in the trailer. Everyone's going "HOLY *****TTTTTT" in their reaction videos at the Confiteor combo. But that's literally all it got, except like a prettier Sheltron. In terms of gameplay, you're just going to be, presumably, pressing the same button 4 times in a row when you reach that part of your rotation, before it's old news again. Samurai, it wasn't super different or impressive to watch, but the QoL we know it did get is actually really good. Sch is likely to be like that, no?

Edit: I suppose I'm saying, not every job that's disatisfactory needs to be burnt to the ground like SMN and MCH; and especially in the case of healers, you're not going to be able to feel the nuance of how their kit feels recontextualised with the new healer dichotomy, even if the skills at their core are the same.

The biggest thing I want for Scholar is bringing Selene back properly. She shouldn't just be an Eos recolor.

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Originally Posted by gotaname1

I started playing SCH 4 days ago.






I already want to quit it but have no other healer leveled...

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Just pick up WHM.. or Sage when EW drops.

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

For those that want to see the Sch changes that it so badly needs, simply do not play Sch. Devs generally take a look the numbers when complaints are made...

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With SCH tied to SMN and people LOVING SMN right now, those metrics are going to be skewed pretty badly if people level as a SMN and never touch their SCH.

I do wonder at which mechanic that needs "in-combat Peloton"? Savage? Ultimate?

"Oh more AoE oGCD healing for SCH? Perfect..."
"Oh even more AoE oGCD healing for WHM? Holy gets upgraded? Fluid aura deleted? Perfect..."
"Astro is chad? Perfect..."
"Sage, what the fuck is."

Hey at least every healer has a 1.5 GCD now, that's cool.

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

I do wonder at which mechanic that needs "in-combat Peloton"? Savage? Ultimate?

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The way they described it, the movement speed isn't the primary effect... It's apparently an added effect alongside a generic damage taken reduction. I imagine it's effectively a second Sacred Soil, that also buffs movement speed.

We'll need to wait on Media Tour stuff and the lifted Embargo in mid-October for proper info.

I'm legitimately hoping it's that Scholar simply gained nothing flashy except the numbers behind what it has aleady.

I'm remaining cautiously hopeful, but it's a cold comfort nonetheless. At least from what we've heard about Sage, it will play distinctly different, so shields aside, they're not stepping on each others' toes.

Nothing really stood out for me, and SCH feels like the spare to an heir. I am not sure why SCH is the red-headed step child, but I will continue to give it love anyway.

From what I can tell as far as updates, it looks like Broil is getting upgraded, nothing for Biolysis, Fey Blessing doesn't cost any Fey Gauge, and AoW II

New toys are some enhancement that every healer is getting, which is an oGCD; whatever effect is going to be added to AoE to compete with Holy (not shown), and In-combat Peloton. The last of which does have a really pretty animation, so I will give it that.

When it comes to the increased movement speed, I can admit that this enhancement has served me well when I did tours in Bozja. While not necessarily needed, it was nevertheless appreciated to facilitate handling some mechs. I know that the enhancement to speed won't be as drastic as it is in Bozja, so it is something I will have to just try out. I am quite sure that most players will find it "meh", and I will agree that it is a far cry from the pizazz a lot of us were hoping to see with SCH.

I'm fine with SCH never returning back to its 3.x glory days, but I do wish they would utilize the nearly untapped resource that is its Fey gauge to do something interesting with it. It is saddening to me that two of its coolest additions (added effect to AoE and oGCD ST beneficial skill) are also given to all the other healers. Both of those could have been unique to SCH and uses the Fey Gauge as the resource to give them more individuality.

my bestie, who plays a sch main healer, thinks SCH is fun, is looking forward to the added buff and doesnt think the job is in any way "broken"

I play healers and main whm, have little interest in SGE because it looks like the combat healer the people who whined about SCH losing its dps focus have been waiting on. SCH always was a barrier healer. what more did you expect them to get?

I never liked Scholar, but I play it for the Leveling Jobs Achievements, so I have seen whats been happening to it over time.
The job has ALWAYS been a Shield Healer, I think the most it lost was its Dots. I dont like the job as much as others so I probably just dont understand why people are broken up about Selene and Eos being streamlined; but to me that makes sense because why have 2 Faries with 2 different abilies when you could have 1 that can do both. Thats just me though.

But overall...even if Scholar barley got anything new, I think what it truely needs is Potency Buffs. That and maybe more Aetherflow, or less heals that demand Aetherflow. Maybe they could change Aetherflow to BUFF heals or certain moves instead of Requiring it to do most of the best spells.

Even though I used to main SCH for 2 expansions, I've pretty much realized that things are never going back the way they are and it's better to just cut your losses and move on to something better.

But hey, at least if summoner is too big brain for you to want to level with, you have SCH as an option for a break from actually being busy.

Honestly I think SCH might be the next job to me massively overhauled by 7.0, they look like they got next to nothing for Endwalker and the job to me feels like a cumbersome mess which is why I tend to lean heavily to my WHM and to a lesser effect AST.

The fact that even Yoshi doesnt seem to know what to do with it means it REALLY needs a drastic rework, the Job was reasonably good until they butchered it in Shadowbringers and it looks to be the same again with Endwalker. Some might hold judgement until release day of course but we've been through this now with 2 expansions and it really feels like they need to do a serious rework like with MCH and SMN.

The saddest part in all of this is that SCH was fun when we had a few more attacks, a melee component when you optimized (miasma II), gauging when to use your resources for healing and when to use them for dps. All things that were slowly stripped away and are now on full display with sage. Sage is quite literally what SCH should have become.

We'll need to wait until the media tour but WHM AST comp looking really good right about now. If sage's DPS is better than the other healers then I could see AST/SGE being meta.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

my bestie, who plays a sch main healer, thinks SCH is fun, is looking forward to the added buff and doesnt think the job is in any way "broken"

I play healers and main whm, have little interest in SGE because it looks like the combat healer the people who whined about SCH losing its dps focus have been waiting on. SCH always was a barrier healer. what more did you expect them to get?

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Fixes to multiple abilities in the kit that clash. More Fae Gauge spenders so it's not such a worthless thing, for as of right now it's only used for Fey Union and Fey Blessing, one of which is only single target and the other a 60s cooldown, neither of which you use all that often. Maybe a new flashy ability that looks good, which we did not get.

I'm hoping for the kit fixes and fae gauge being more useful, but those are things they could have stated as bullet points during the Live Letter. Which btw, they did not do, only telling us that the speed boost was also damage mitigation, and they also outright admitted that they don't know what they can do with Scholar anymore.

just leaving this here
https://youtu.be/eApcdeIyQRg

Don't know what you guys are talking about the new gap closer is amazing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...oks_fantastic/

Genuinely don't understand why people are in such disarray over SCH.

They literally said that they are building upon the foundation that Shb laid, and currently SCH is in a fine spot, its still picked pretty frequently and its abilities are still good enough to be used in optimization situations. The worst parts about the job that I've observed are simply pet AI and needing to use Ruin 2 to weave. Both of which are being changed (the pet one is a maybe though.)

I don't see DRK players whining, when they arguably got even less new things than SCH. Its just a sign that the job is probably well designed enough to not need changes.

Not to mention, we haven't seen any of the new traits yet, which can really make a big differences in how a job feels.

SGE is obviously going to steal the spotlight because it is a new job and they want people to actually play it, but there is value in jobs remaining stable design-wise. Not everything needs to change drastically otherwise we get another AST situation where the playerbase is always torn over new vs old iterations.

If you are a SCH main currently, nothing should stop you from being a SCH main in EW because they still have their identifying features (big group shields and mitigation tools.) If that's not enough for you then I question why you would ever consider maining the job since from what I gather that has always been the intended identity since it was implemented.


Just my 2c.

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Originally Posted by Euphares

Genuinely don't understand why people are in such disarray over SCH.

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Because they outright admitted they don't know what they can do for the class anymore. The devs outright admitted they don't know what to add to one of the base game classes. That means that not only do they not know how to fix it, but that it's likely going to get hit with a rework sometime either in EW or by 7.0.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Because they outright admitted they don't know what they can do for the class anymore. The devs outright admitted they don't know what to add to one of the base game classes. That means that not only do they not know how to fix it, but that it's likely going to get hit with a rework sometime either in EW or by 7.0.

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What about it needs fixing though? Its a shield healer that has strong mitigation and shields with a pet that enhances its mitigation and shields. Current SCH covers that just fine.

That segment doesn't read to me like "this is broken" more that "this job is meeting all our design goals and we are unsure how to be innovative with additions without losing the identity we want." They would be right, there isn't a whole lot they can add to the job without it becoming cluttered, so they defaulted to unique utility that is still in-line with the theme (new movement speed ability.)


Summoner gets changed so much because prior to its upcoming iteration it didn't seem to ever meet its intended design identity, SCH isn't nearly in the same boat.

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Originally Posted by Euphares

What about it needs fixing though? Its a shield healer that has strong mitigation and shields with a pet that enhances its mitigation and shields. Current SCH covers that just fine.

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Dissipation removes your fairy and gives you Aetherflow stacks. But you need your fairy out to get Fae Gauge buildup using Aetherflow stacks. You need your fairy out to use Seraph, your level 80 ability, which will then lock out the Fae Gauge moves. You need your fairy out to use one of your party regens and a party mitigation, which do not get stronger when you use your limited time Seraph form of your fairy. Fae Gauge only has 2 moves, neither of which are used much at all despite this, one of which is the weakest AoE heal in the game and has a 60s cooldown, the other a tether to a single target that the fairy will end the second you use any other fairy ability. Lustrate, Excogitation, Sacred Soil, Indomitability, Energy Drain, are fighting to use the 3 Aetherflow Stacks. The entire kit fights with and contradicts itself instead of working together.

Are there situations in which you need to pump all 3 (Dissipation, Fey Union, and Summon Seraph) at the same time?

Genuinely curious.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Dissipation removes your fairy and gives you Aetherflow stacks. But you need your fairy out to get Fae Gauge buildup using Aetherflow stacks. You need your fairy out to use Seraph, your level 80 ability, which will then lock out the Fae Gauge moves. You need your fairy out to use one of your party regens and a party mitigation, which do not get stronger when you use your limited time Seraph form of your fairy. Fae Gauge only has 2 moves, neither of which are used much at all despite this, one of which is the weakest AoE heal in the game and has a 60s cooldown, the other a tether to a single target that the fairy will end the second you use any other fairy ability. Lustrate, Excogitation, Sacred Soil, Indomitability, Energy Drain, are fighting to use the 3 Aetherflow Stacks. The entire kit fights with and contradicts itself instead of working together.

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Dissipation not letting you build gauge seems intended to me, the whole point of the ability is to sacrifice your pet in exchange for making the Scholar more powerful, which it achieves. Its not contradictory more-so its just a tradeoff for using the ability. Scholar is supposed to be a tactical healer and sacrifice is part of tactical gameplay.


Seraph letting you use gauge moves on top of also having enhanced fairy abilities and Consolation would most likely require a re-tuning of the class which would probably include nerfing the default fairy and its abilities.


The fairy gauge is only underwhelming because nothing in the game requires so much healing, blessing could get numbers tuning, and union just suffers from crappy pet ai but is still often used to prevent reliance on gcd heals to recover from tank damage.


Aetherflow abilities are fine because you are supposed to make a tactical decision with your resources. These abilities are balanced by the fact that you cannot use all of them and the ones you do use you can only use sparingly. If you could just fire and forget them, the job would once again need re-tuning which would result in all of them getting watered down which wouldn't be pleasing to anyone. And this design falls in line with the tactical, shield/mit healer identity.

The only aspects of SCH's kit that is underwhelming are fey blessing due to being undertuned, and Lustrate due to never needing to ST heal so much, in addition to overall bad pet ai due to the game engine. None of these are symptoms of SCH's design not creating a solid identity and none of these issues warrant a groundbreaking rework or the addition of groundbreaking new tools.

As disappointed as I am due to the job trailer as a SCH main, what bothered me the most was how they were laughing and chuckling the whole time, it was like they weren't taking it seriously and just considered it a joke but I get it, Yoshida-san was tired AF he and the Devs and the comms team bust their ass working on this game I enjoy. So if these small moments get them to laugh and chuckle then I'll let them have it, they work themselves to the bone as it already is and they've long since earned any moment of levity that comes their way as they continue to work hard. But they should have tempered expectations when it came to SCH (and WHM), the last thing we heard from the Devs about healers in general was around 5.0 launch where they said they wanted to bring the healers to about the same level before they do anything drastic and to be fair to them a lot of the issues people brought up were implemented but they were given to Sage but yes they did listen, and rather attentively given that Sage has more than 1 DPS button.

But to go from "We wanna even things out before we do any more" only to then hear from them (in the run up to the following expansion 2 years later [give or take]) that "Oh we couldn't really think of anything" absolutely gutted me and I know I'm not alone in feeling that, I am personally not gonna give the Devs any grief, and just accept the disappointment as I have for 3 expansions now (going on 4) and just accept the fact that they simply don't have the means to give SCH the attention I would wish them to, whether b/c they're putting fires out everywhere else in the game or not being able to find a Dev team member who mains a healer/act as an advocate for the healer role during their meetings or because given balance considerations the more interesting things they do come up with are deemed unfeasible.

I'm still gonna play SCH, level Sage and if anything ditch WHM since AST changes seem to be up my alley (Starfall is one of my favorite spells in FF franchise history after all). I'll only walk away from SCH if the healer community with any seriousness wants to boycott the Job, otherwise I'll keep playing SCH even if it does get unpopular (unlikely but Sage is their first real competitor for the role of shield healer so if anything it's simply a realistic possibility this expansion), as an FFXI player I'm used to SCHs being a rarity given their lore in Vanadiel so seeing fewer of them won't bother me personally. I just wanted healers to have a dash for mobility cuz I personally enjoy expressing my fight knowledge with those movement tools provided on other classes and roles and hey a healer was given one this expansion, just not my healer (but they did give one to SMN hah) so I'll just have to get used to it. Just like how I got used to the Devs constantly looking over SCH's shoulder making sure we weren't capable of any busted shit for balance reasons for the last 8 years or so ( balance concerns which were 100% valid), but it didn't make the Job experience pleasant knowing that they'd just take more and more away from the Job w/o giving it much of anything in return the way other Jobs got treated when removals had to occur for them (for the most part). To say nothing of how ever since 2.0 WAR has gotten nothing but close attention and given buffs just because the 2.0 cover Job faceplanted upon its debut(and yet that close attention persisted long after it was fixed in the 2.x patch series, I wish other Jobs had that kind of attention). It just sucks that for something monumental like the job action trailer where every Job gets a chance to shine SCH just ended up looking like a joke. But I'm not gonna give the Devs any grief over it, they have enough problems to solve and even though I feel slighted I'm personally not gonna add to their plate.