MNK still lacking range...

Hello, everyone!

It is my first time posting here, but as I am watching the most recent live letter, I noticed talks about combos not being broken by range attacks. While this is great for the vast majority of my favourite classes to play, my most favourite aesthetically (and in terms of raw buttons pressed) is still lacking!

I was thinking it might be cool if monks received a range attack that cost one chakra. This keeps the base fantasy of being a physical character there, but allows you to perform a weaker version of Enlightenment. The cost of one chakra is easily generated, either manually or through your standard rotation, and would allow for it to be slightly stronger than a standard ranged attack.

I'd love to hear what people think, whether they have other ideas or would just like to lament monks watching during downtime and hopping from foot to foot!

Probably not.. Since they just took away our only ranged attack: Shoulder Tackle.

RIP MNK

Needs a rocket punch.

I will ask the question, does Monk really need a ranged attack? At range, Monk will mostly be charging Chakra's anyway, so it will conflict with that. Then you have to consider, if I spend a Chakra on this ranged attack, would that one stack potentially been better spent on Forbidden Chakra, especially since charges are (presumably) still RNG gated.

Even if you don't have the chakra cost, you then have to weight it up with chakra generation. Am I gaining more potency spending this GCD on a ranged attack or generating Chakra. Most jobs don't have anything on the GCD that they use to build resources that can be used at range, which is why they can have a ranged attack in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

I will ask the question, does Monk really need a ranged attack? At range, Monk will mostly be charging Chakra's anyway, so it will conflict with that. Then you have to consider, if I spend a Chakra on this ranged attack, would that one stack potentially been better spent on Forbidden Chakra, especially since charges are (presumably) still RNG gated.

Even if you don't have the chakra cost, you then have to weight it up with chakra generation. Am I gaining more potency spending this GCD on a ranged attack or generating Chakra. Most jobs don't have anything on the GCD that they use to build resources that can be used at range, which is why they can have a ranged attack in the first place.

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No one really '' needs '' a ranged, it's just that it's free damage everyone has except MNK.
SAM still has it and they have a channel skill too, and now combos won't be broken by it.
It's about fun and also a tool everyone except MNK has, and often times when you disengage you already have chakras and charge up really fast and then you're just kinda sitting there ( Anatman is crap everyone hates it anyways ).

I don't agree that it should cost a Chakra tho I don't exactly see the point with that, no one else has to spend resources on it.

Edit: If anything it could build a Chakra, sorta like how Throwing Daggers builds Ninki for NIN.

They should give us back Howling Fist for our ranged skill.... but they probably won't since they expect us to meditate while we're disengaged.

A ranged attack would be nice even if it's just for niche things like potd or HoH for pulling away from a pack. I mean monk in 11 had chi blast which was 18 yalms.

If you make it cost chakra, it is likely nobody would use it.

That said, if a ranged attack is added, it would just be like most of the others jobs' ranged attack: not really flashy. (well, aside from Reaper, for some reasons...)
There was a lot more flashiness to show for Monk in the trailer. Showing such a move was not needed.
It doesn't mean they did not add one. The job trailers do not show every single move.

I doubt they added one but...there is still a chance that your wish could be fulfilled.

SE please give mnk really long sleeves we can put rocks in so we can start slapping at range

Range in Monk is currently dead. They should have given Monk Rose of Destruction from Ivon Coeurlfist.

The fact you'll have 3 charges of DBZ dash is evident you have no range options outside of maybe Enlightenment.

Monk doesn't need any long ranged skills. It's utterly ridiculous to even have one to begin with. There is always so many other things to do while having to stay away from boss, like build chakra, formless fist to prep for the next dash in, hell you can even change stance to mitigate any damage u might get.

I hope they don't remove our stances oh dear lord up high, I really don't want our stances removed; the movement speed buff can be done away with that's fine but keep the atk buff and Def buff.

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Originally Posted by Sorzai

Monk doesn't need any long ranged skills. It's utterly ridiculous to even have one to begin with. There is always so many other things to do while having to stay away from boss, like build chakra, formless fist to prep for the next dash in, hell you can even change stance to mitigate any damage u might get.

I hope they don't remove our stances oh dear lord up high, I really don't want our stances removed; the movement speed buff can be done away with that's fine but keep the atk buff and Def buff.

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Likely they remove them and if anything, turn them into passive skills. Firsts of Fire will almost certainly be this (since it's not shown as a skill in the trailer, and not on Yoshi's hotbar when he was showing off new monk) Would have to watch really closely to compare that job and summoner/reaper to see if potentially Fists of Wind is also made a passive trait.

MNK doesn't need a ranged attack. Especially with two (soon-to-be-three) charges of mobility and the ability to build chakras, it's just not necessary. It would also go completely against the job fantasy if we started throwing things.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Likely they remove them and if anything, turn them into passive skills. Firsts of Fire will almost certainly be this (since it's not shown as a skill in the trailer, and not on Yoshi's hotbar when he was showing off new monk) Would have to watch really closely to compare that job and summoner/reaper to see if potentially Fists of Wind is also made a passive trait.

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yeah i didn't see any of them on his Hotbars, but it's just sad that they're turning them into passive skills. sure it's nice that we get more hotbar real estate, but do we really need it? i kinda wished they expanded more upon these stances rather than simply giving buffs. but turning them into passives to me removes the job fantasy, it's like how they removed cleric stance too, i liked that.

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Originally Posted by Coba

It would also go completely against the job fantasy if we started throwing things.

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FFXI's Chi Blast would work just as well for the job fantasy as Enlightenment does.

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Originally Posted by Sorzai

Monk doesn't need any long ranged skills. It's utterly ridiculous to even have one to begin with. There is always so many other things to do while having to stay away from boss, like build chakra, formless fist to prep for the next dash in, hell you can even change stance to mitigate any damage u might get.

I hope they don't remove our stances oh dear lord up high, I really don't want our stances removed; the movement speed buff can be done away with that's fine but keep the atk buff and Def buff.

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It's not only about bosses.
I am doing Eureka right now for example and the lack of range is really painful for safely pulling mobs...

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Originally Posted by Coba

MNK doesn't need a ranged attack. Especially with two (soon-to-be-three) charges of mobility and the ability to build chakras, it's just not necessary. It would also go completely against the job fantasy if we started throwing things.

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Why? We already have a ranged blast only not far enough and it costs resources.
Why would a more traditional range go against our fantasy?
How does it with MNK but not SAM?

Does DRG carry infinite spears on their backs too?
Why can a PLD lob his shield but not lose it?
This is silly imo, it doesn't go against our fantasy.

There is zero need for a ranged attack, per se. We need only a use for our GCD that does not require melee range. A ranged attack is one such means, but so too was Meditation.

We don't need to homogenize the means to a given capacity.

Hell, before TFC was nerfed to compensate for Deep Meditation, MNK's Meditation skill had by far the highest flexibility and potency-per-GCD of any non-melee weaponskill on a melee job.

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Originally Posted by Garnix

FFXI's Chi Blast would work just as well for the job fantasy as Enlightenment does.

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yeah but the chi blast is the same as Enlightenment, hence it requires full stack of chakra.

serious answer
mnk doesnt need a long range attack IF it has something to do in its downtime that can contribute to its overall dps
previously this was meditate and (supposed to be) anatman
if we have higher than average dps at close range, theres no need for ranged attacks for it to compete with other dps

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

it's free damage everyone has except MNK.

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This simply is not true. Monk does have a system that counts towards potency contribution while away from the boss. Let me explain.


If by damage = potency then utilizing Meditation while away from boss produces the same effect.

Meditation can be stacked 5 times, has a recast time of 1.0 seconds, and are consumed to perform Forbidden Chakra which has a potency of 340.

If we do some quick math.. 340/5=68. Each stack of meditation produces 68 potency and with a quick recast time of 1.0 second.


I understand that Dragoon has Piercing Talon which has a potency of 150 and a recast time of 2.5 seconds...

In 2.5 seconds, Dragoon can produce 150 potency.
In 3 seconds, Monk can produce 204 potency.

Monk accumulates more potency than DRG when accounting for their basic ranged attacks. Dragoon can only produce more potency than Monk after performing Piercing Talon three times.

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Originally Posted by Sorzai

yeah i didn't see any of them on his Hotbars, but it's just sad that they're turning them into passive skills. sure it's nice that we get more hotbar real estate, but do we really need it? i kinda wished they expanded more upon these stances rather than simply giving buffs. but turning them into passives to me removes the job fantasy, it's like how they removed cleric stance too, i liked that.

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They did try in Stormblood to make stances more relevant... but it didn't really turn out very well. Problem is that with three options, one will always be superior. And for monks, that option will always be the one that raises your damage output the most. Even if they all did similar things, like one gives flat potency buff, one raises crit rate, and one reduces GCD, people will math it out, figure out which one gives you the most advantage, and that will be the one and only stance you use.

This was a thing we saw with Scholar too. Selene was widely considered to be vastly superior to Eos, and now both the fairies just do the same thing as each other.

They showed being able to dash on very short cooldown for monk if that makes it in you have no need for range damage

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Originally Posted by wereotter

They did try in Stormblood to make stances more relevant... but it didn't really turn out very well. Problem is that with three options, one will always be superior. And for monks, that option will always be the one that raises your damage output the most.

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One will always be superior in a particular moment. But that was the thing about 4.3 Monk: the option optimal at that moment... varied. You spent most of your time in Fire, but RoW and RoE made the other stances quite relevant.

Did that effectively turn FoW (a la Tornado Kick) and FoE (a la Riddle of Earth's GL retention over jump phases), each lackluster in themselves, into mere clunk or bloat that slowed access to the effects we really wanted? Arguably, yes. But, you certainly weren't running a single stance 24/7 in optimal play; variance was damn near obligatory.

And that was with only the faintest, most dismissive effort put into making the stances relevant...

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Originally Posted by wereotter

This was a thing we saw with Scholar too. Selene was widely considered to be vastly superior to Eos, and now both the fairies just do the same thing as each other.

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Not really. Whenever Whispering Dawn was available, the difference between their potential outputs were huge, certainly making a frequent case for Eos over Selene, or even for using both over a given encounter.

SSS + a frequently available gap closer is more than enough for MNK. I mean, why would MNK even need more ranged options when fights are designed in such a way that melee jobs can stick to the boss 99%+ of the time?

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Originally Posted by Flynn89

Needs a rocket punch.

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Like the punches Goku does against Kefla in UI, it would be sooooo cool, coupled with Bleach sonido style dash.

But more seriously, I think the chakra is a good "generate potency while away" as many said that differentiate with other melees.