[Question] Why do casual players suddenly want XIV to die?

I don't understand it at all. There's been a large number of people aggressively attacking new players recently and I don't understand it at all.

People are constantly attacking and harassing people because a few streamers recently have been reskinning their UI into something that makes the game accessible for them.

A lot of players from other games - namely WoW - are used to UIs that are presented significantly differently than XIV's UI. So they have been using mods that change the way the information is presented to them. Nothing else. None of these UI mods give any advantage to them in any way, they just change the visuals to something they are familiar with so that they can actually play the game.

Because this reskinning doesn't give any advantage that isn't already in the game, there's no way it can impact high end gameplay. Even if it did, it doesn't affect anyone that doesn't want to use them. Some person I've never met using a mod doesn't affect how fast I clear a savage tier in the slightest.

Personally I feel that the game's base UI is fantastic and there's no need to change it, however everyone has their own things that make them comfortable and they should be allowed to.

Every single high end player I've talked to or heard opinions from is in favor as well, because it doesn't affect them and increases player population by increasing game accessibility.

It's very well known that the "no 3rd party programs" mentioned in the ToS is primarily used to prevent harassment due to damage meters (I was literally told this day 2 of playing by a stranger) and to prevent lewd mods for lalafells.

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The most important part of this is that a majority of the people using these reskins are all new players, coming from WoW.

And as such, there is a portion of the playerbase that is actively attacking and harassing new players during one of the largest growth rate periods the game has seen in it's history.

This harassment will undoubtedly push new players away from the game, or present the image that XIV has a toxic community (which at this point I have no way to deny - the number of toxic people harassing sprouts and new players out of game has been insane lately)

Pushing new players away from the game and presenting the image of a toxic community that pushes new players away are the two ways to stagnate game growth and kill a game before it's time.

Who would want to play a game where they are hated and harassed the moment they leave character creation? Why do all these toxic casuals want to kill the game?

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Originally Posted by Kyoshirin

I don't understand it at all. There's been a large number of people aggressively attacking new players recently and I don't understand it at all.

People are constantly attacking and harassing people because a few streamers recently have been reskinning their UI into something that makes the game accessible for them.

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where is this happening? I don't ever hear anything in game and here in the forums is not " a large number".. that's just troll threads really. Look at the names.. see them happen again and again with contrary takes on every subject.


I'm curious where you're seeing people being "attacked" except for people posting here and possibly reporting former WoW content creators, in which case haters will ALWAYS find something to harass them with.

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Originally Posted by Kyoshirin

People are constantly attacking and harassing people because a few streamers recently have been reskinning their UI into something that makes the game accessible for them. [...] Why[?]

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If you are talking about the WoW mods, we actually have a whole thread going about that here:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-%28ui-mods%29

If not, please ignore my whole post because it will be irrelevant to your concern.

Tl : dr
Harassment is never ok, but to answer your question about why people are upset:

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Some UI mods are distributed through XIVlauncher, which also gives players access to a number of other features that give clear advantages. Some examples:

- Allows you to see player hitbox
- Can automatically find and relay hunt mobs
- Condenses combos to one button
- Allows macros to be daisy-chained
- Allows mouseover targeting without macro delay
- Gives player realtime information about mobs in PoTD
- Shows different damage types visually (magic/physical))

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

[...]Even taking the console argument away, SE has historically done a great job making addons not feel necessary to make good progress. But the more people who use them, the more people expect others to use them and it becomes a gatekeeping issue to progress in high end content. I know it for a fact, I've seen it in other games and it's already becoming a problem that will only grow. Don't use damage meters? No invite. Don't use addons to automark things? No invite. It's time to put the foot down.

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Again though, the harassment is not ok and that's going way too far.

if you see something reportable.. REPORT IT.

its as simple as that. SE does this one thing reasonably well, and they will do something about people attacking/harassing others in game.

how do you know these people are...casual? is there a new flag I do not know about?

There was already a thread about UI mods by the way. if people are attacking /harassing others over their use, either for or against... REPORT THEM.

your post is kind of all over by the way, first on about people harassing new player, the next, on about the UI.

its rather confusing to be honest

I don't care if people change their UI or use mods (cact being an exception), but you'll have to forgive me for laughing at the ones claiming they like a challenge then do everything to make this game what it isn't... aka WoW. But hey, do you.

I don't think it's the mods or UI tbh (similar mods have existed for quite some time here) I think it's more that trying to push a mentality that it should look/function more like WoW (while also watching streamers use these mods live and not have punishment given to them since they are against the ToS) is gonna clash with people. Like, ya'll chose to come here, why not play by our rules for a while?

At the very least they should be kept private like we have to keep them and those that use them publicly (famous or not) should be held to the same standards as everyone else if they flaunt them publicly.

The loud few don't speak for the mass

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Originally Posted by Kyoshirin

I don't understand it at all. There's been a large number of people aggressively attacking new players recently and I don't understand it at all.

People are constantly attacking and harassing people because a few streamers recently have been reskinning their UI into something that makes the game accessible for them.

A lot of players from other games - namely WoW - are used to UIs that are presented significantly differently than XIV's UI. So they have been using mods that change the way the information is presented to them. Nothing else. None of these UI mods give any advantage to them in any way, they just change the visuals to something they are familiar with so that they can actually play the game.

Because this reskinning doesn't give any advantage that isn't already in the game, there's no way it can impact high end gameplay. Even if it did, it doesn't affect anyone that doesn't want to use them. Some person I've never met using a mod doesn't affect how fast I clear a savage tier in the slightest.

Personally I feel that the game's base UI is fantastic and there's no need to change it, however everyone has their own things that make them comfortable and they should be allowed to.

Every single high end player I've talked to or heard opinions from is in favor as well, because it doesn't affect them and increases player population by increasing game accessibility.

It's very well known that the "no 3rd party programs" mentioned in the ToS is primarily used to prevent harassment due to damage meters (I was literally told this day 2 of playing by a stranger) and to prevent lewd mods for lalafells.

----
The most important part of this is that a majority of the people using these reskins are all new players, coming from WoW.

And as such, there is a portion of the playerbase that is actively attacking and harassing new players during one of the largest growth rate periods the game has seen in it's history.

This harassment will undoubtedly push new players away from the game, or present the image that XIV has a toxic community (which at this point I have no way to deny - the number of toxic people harassing sprouts and new players out of game has been insane lately)

Pushing new players away from the game and presenting the image of a toxic community that pushes new players away are the two ways to stagnate game growth and kill a game before it's time.

Who would want to play a game where they are hated and harassed the moment they leave character creation? Why do all these toxic casuals want to kill the game?

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Mods are against the ToS and you are a single post troll.

I spent far too long trying to figure out wtf the title has to do with the post and think I just took like 3d6 psychic damage so gg I guess

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Originally Posted by Reap00

Mods are against the ToS and you are a single post troll.

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Yoshi-P has spoken on this. Acording to him technically Discord, any razer, logitech, etc program are against the ToS. He also stated that if youare getting in trouble for the 3rd party things, it is likely something far more serious that led to than simply using a 3rd party thing.

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Originally Posted by Kyoshirin

I don't understand it at all. There's been a large number of people aggressively attacking new players recently and I don't understand it at all.

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I still hear from people about the community being positive toward them, so it's probably still a minority of people doing that if at all.

Why do casual players suddenly hate new players? easy, they them self are bad at the game and cant do end game raids but here come some new players and they can. and on top of it they don't care for the thing i love in the game. soon they start saying this UI mods are cheats. or do they now as well? i am not some one that is so good he ca do raids as soon as they out and its ok i don't care how they people that can do it. its the two face of the community in large really, on one hand baby sit bad players to fell superior an don the other try to bring te good players down and take the content from them.

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Originally Posted by Kyoshirin

I don't understand it at all. There's been a large number of people aggressively attacking new players recently and I don't understand it at all.

People are constantly attacking and harassing people because a few streamers recently have been reskinning their UI into something that makes the game accessible for them.

A lot of players from other games - namely WoW - are used to UIs that are presented significantly differently than XIV's UI. So they have been using mods that change the way the information is presented to them. Nothing else. None of these UI mods give any advantage to them in any way, they just change the visuals to something they are familiar with so that they can actually play the game.

Because this reskinning doesn't give any advantage that isn't already in the game, there's no way it can impact high end gameplay. Even if it did, it doesn't affect anyone that doesn't want to use them. Some person I've never met using a mod doesn't affect how fast I clear a savage tier in the slightest.

Personally I feel that the game's base UI is fantastic and there's no need to change it, however everyone has their own things that make them comfortable and they should be allowed to.

Every single high end player I've talked to or heard opinions from is in favor as well, because it doesn't affect them and increases player population by increasing game accessibility.

It's very well known that the "no 3rd party programs" mentioned in the ToS is primarily used to prevent harassment due to damage meters (I was literally told this day 2 of playing by a stranger) and to prevent lewd mods for lalafells.

----
The most important part of this is that a majority of the people using these reskins are all new players, coming from WoW.

And as such, there is a portion of the playerbase that is actively attacking and harassing new players during one of the largest growth rate periods the game has seen in it's history.

This harassment will undoubtedly push new players away from the game, or present the image that XIV has a toxic community (which at this point I have no way to deny - the number of toxic people harassing sprouts and new players out of game has been insane lately)

Pushing new players away from the game and presenting the image of a toxic community that pushes new players away are the two ways to stagnate game growth and kill a game before it's time.

Who would want to play a game where they are hated and harassed the moment they leave character creation? Why do all these toxic casuals want to kill the game?

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What I want to ask you is.. why are you pinning it on 'casual players'?

As a relatively new player myself...I haven't seen this. At all. People go to Shout chat asking questions and several try their best to answer. I know myself that folks have been awfully nice when it came to pointing out things. Even when it came to eating dirt on EX trials.

Are there bad actors out there that will dunk on new players? Don't doubt it, but from my experience very few are actually doing this and if they are being rude to new players, report them.

As a sprout i never had a bad experience with other players. And believe me i am often flat on the floor in a dungeon, even then no bad words.
I really like the FF14 community. :)

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...78/440/356.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ferra

As a relatively new player myself...I haven't seen this. At all. People go to Shout chat asking questions and several try their best to answer. I know myself that folks have been awfully nice when it came to pointing out things. Even when it came to eating dirt on EX trials.

Are there bad actors out there that will dunk on new players? Don't doubt it, but from my experience very few are actually doing this and if they are being rude to new players, report them.

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A lot of the forum community here likes to pretend that the worst they see on here is actually representative of how it is in game.. which, as you yourself say, is not the case.

Bad apples are always a thing in every community, but certain folks here take every instance of a bad apple as some sort of grand proof that the XIV community isn't at all nice and welcoming.

It more boggles my mind that people don't understand the 3rd party ToS thing is just for SE to cover their butts.

As in, if SE said it was fine, and some bad things went down (like stolen data), the player could just say "Well SE said it was ok...".

If it's cosmetic or doesn't do anything to give you a mechanical edge in combat/gathering, or it doesn't lead to you being a massive wang-rod, SE doesn't care.

Or rather, their opinion is probably similar to that of a concerned parent of a college kid: They know you're going to do stupid things in college, but if you are smart about it and don't do anything to end up in the newspaper, you probably won't get more than a disappointed sigh out of daddy YoshiP.

The more people play, the more you'll see these 'complainers'. The mods weren't what killed the wow feeling.

And they aren't gonna kill the feeling this game has.

That's a thing the community does, sooo keep your head straight and be nice and maaaaybe this game can flourish without becoming a wow, yeah? ^^

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Originally Posted by Kyoshirin

I don't understand it at all. There's been a large number of people aggressively attacking new players recently and I don't understand it at all.

People are constantly attacking and harassing people because a few streamers recently have been reskinning their UI into something that makes the game accessible for them.

A lot of players from other games - namely WoW - are used to UIs that are presented significantly differently than XIV's UI. So they have been using mods that change the way the information is presented to them. Nothing else. None of these UI mods give any advantage to them in any way, they just change the visuals to something they are familiar with so that they can actually play the game.

Because this reskinning doesn't give any advantage that isn't already in the game, there's no way it can impact high end gameplay. Even if it did, it doesn't affect anyone that doesn't want to use them. Some person I've never met using a mod doesn't affect how fast I clear a savage tier in the slightest.

Personally I feel that the game's base UI is fantastic and there's no need to change it, however everyone has their own things that make them comfortable and they should be allowed to.

Every single high end player I've talked to or heard opinions from is in favor as well, because it doesn't affect them and increases player population by increasing game accessibility.

It's very well known that the "no 3rd party programs" mentioned in the ToS is primarily used to prevent harassment due to damage meters (I was literally told this day 2 of playing by a stranger) and to prevent lewd mods for lalafells.

----
The most important part of this is that a majority of the people using these reskins are all new players, coming from WoW.

And as such, there is a portion of the playerbase that is actively attacking and harassing new players during one of the largest growth rate periods the game has seen in it's history.

This harassment will undoubtedly push new players away from the game, or present the image that XIV has a toxic community (which at this point I have no way to deny - the number of toxic people harassing sprouts and new players out of game has been insane lately)

Pushing new players away from the game and presenting the image of a toxic community that pushes new players away are the two ways to stagnate game growth and kill a game before it's time.

Who would want to play a game where they are hated and harassed the moment they leave character creation? Why do all these toxic casuals want to kill the game?

---

That anti-UI mod thread was an obvious troll that tons of people fell for.

What does any of this have to do with casual players?

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

What does any of this have to do with casual players?

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I was wondering this myself. I'm chalking it down to "casual" being a popular insult to throw at people you disagree with, doesn't matter if it makes sense it just sounds clever. A bit like how on twitter everyone is either an SJW or Nazi.

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

When in rome. People are not turning a blind eye to it. The company is. We all see it going on, most of us just don't care because the company made it clear they don't as well.


It is like old man yelling at clouds because it is going to rain. It is a waste of time. Accept it is going to rain and move on.

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Well to give a different example. In the US, law enforcement tends to turn a blind eye to minor traffic violations. As a result densely populated areas frequently have traffic jams/backups/accidents due to an excessive number of people ignoring traffic regulations they feel are inconvenient or stupid. Yet they choose to continue contributing to the problem. Or A number of places are lifting mask regulations for people vaccinated for COVID however they're doing nothing to verify whether the person not wearing a mask has had a COVID vaccine or not. As a result COVID cases are increasing again.

People need to do the right thing simply because it's the right thing to do, not because they want a reward or they're afraid of being punished.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

What does any of this have to do with casual players?

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I think the OP is equating people who don't play with {and dislike the idea of other people playing with} mods being casuals, in the negative sense of the term. I also think that a good portion of people who've been playing XIV since "before it was cool" equate the use of mods with people from WoW and the with toxicity and generally unpleasant behavior associated with the recent WoW population. Whether either of these points of view hold water remain to be seen.

It seems to me that people on both sides of the argument use modding as their litmus test to tell what sort of people "They" are, if you get what I'm saying. Personally, I equate using mods with WoW as that's the only MMO I've used mods with, with all of the negative experiences and toxicity-related associations that come with that name.

I think it should be a matter of respect to not use mods when the devs don't want you to use them. But maybe respect seems to be more and more like a foreign word to many nowadays, especially on the internet.

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Originally Posted by ACE135

I think it should be a matter of respect to not use mods when the devs don't want you to use them. But maybe respect seems to be more and more like a foreign word to many nowadays, especially on the internet.

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respect, common decency and courtesy seem to depend heavily on where you are from in the world. even with that, it varies greatly within certain populations.

those values quickly fall by the wayside when some people add in "what can I get away with" comes into play...

also doesnt help when SE seems to be inclined to look away for some of these disrespectful things like botting for instance....

As a console player who can't use mods (at least, not without far more hassle than it could ever be worth), I don't care as long as it's not being used to cheat.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Think of it this way. A majority of large problems in the world are the result of people turning a blind eye and ignoring minor things which allowed those minor things to turn into major issues.

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Counter argument. Using mods in a video game aren't really a big of a deal, compared to other real world issues that people turn a blind eye to... Especially since for the majority of the mods used in Final Fantasy XIV, it doesn't effect you at all. Reporting them would be a bit like reporting a parent who let's their 19 year old have a beer at home, in the safety of their own home... It's technically "against the rules" and "illegal" by by reporting them, you're not really making the world a better place... And you're arguably making it worse.

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Originally Posted by ACE135

I think it should be a matter of respect to not use mods when the devs don't want you to use them. But maybe respect seems to be more and more like a foreign word to many nowadays, especially on the internet.

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I am struggling to see how it is disrespectful to use the mods. Especially since when a lot of the mods do things that the devs just don't have the time or funding to do. Like adding high res textures, adjusting hair styles for Hrothgar and Viera, fixing some of the gear dye channels (cause let's be honest some of those are just straight up odd), and just simply adding hairstyles and gear styles that would likely not be tackled by the dev team because of how time consuming it would be to make it work for the entire playerbase. Where as one person can easily spend their off hours working on it to viewable for one person and one person only.

Edit: I also forgot, another really popular one I've seen. Detaching Au Ra faces from horn styles, probably the number one request Au Ra players have had since the race was added back in HW.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

With big chance this is a bait thread but to give OP benefit of the doubt. Uh no? Is this going on NA side maybe? I never seen any attacking or trashing new players on my data center here in Europe.




A lot of people. Square Enix, their employees. Many players. Anyone against botters. Etc etc.

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I'm against botters. I'm not against people using mods to change the UI, or to wear an outfit that only they can see. I don't use them, since having started on the PS4, I rather like the UI and most outfit mods are too lewd for my asexual arse... But I don't care if someone uses mods for something that's ultimately cosmetic.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

I don't think it's the mods or UI tbh (similar mods have existed for quite some time here) I think it's more that trying to push a mentality that it should look/function more like WoW (while also watching streamers use these mods live and not have punishment given to them since they are against the ToS) is gonna clash with people. Like, ya'll chose to come here, why not play by our rules for a while?

At the very least they should be kept private like we have to keep them and those that use them publicly (famous or not) should be held to the same standards as everyone else if they flaunt them publicly.

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I used to play a lot of ESO myself, and I start playing FFXIV pretty recently(around 4 months ago). Yes, the game can be overwhelming at first mainly because everything in the game is different from how I used to play ESO, but with some time I managed to get used to the game mechanics and etc pretty well. The thing is that new players of any MMO game has to adapt to the game's mechanics, not the other way around, and if they don't like it then they should either go back to playing WoW or some other MMO that has similar mechanics to it.

A certain launcher has a combo addon that's actually helped a disabled friend of mine play. Are they doing amazing DPS? No. Are they struggling in normal dungeons and 24-man content? Yes. But are they actually enjoying the game because they can now finally play and don't need to spend tons on sorting out and setting up an adapted controller? Yes.

I know for a lot of people, the addons are this scary cheat but the reality is that the majority of addons are QoL features and for a lot of people they just add in options that help them play.

The end of the day, unless your personal experience is ruined by other people, I'd just let them get on with it.

If mods suddenly made everyone play incredible, we'd have way more triple legends wobbling their weapons around than we do. Raid Clear rates are still really low for this MMO so I'd not worry about it too much.

Easy answer:
They love the game so much they cant stay casual, and because they don't wanna go all in, they decide to smack talk FFXIV :D

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Originally Posted by Kyoshirin

I don't understand it at all. There's been a large number of people aggressively attacking new players recently and I don't understand it at all.

People are constantly attacking and harassing people because a few streamers recently have been reskinning their UI into something that makes the game accessible for them.

A lot of players from other games - namely WoW - are used to UIs that are presented significantly differently than XIV's UI. So they have been using mods that change the way the information is presented to them. Nothing else. None of these UI mods give any advantage to them in any way, they just change the visuals to something they are familiar with so that they can actually play the game.

Because this reskinning doesn't give any advantage that isn't already in the game, there's no way it can impact high end gameplay. Even if it did, it doesn't affect anyone that doesn't want to use them. Some person I've never met using a mod doesn't affect how fast I clear a savage tier in the slightest.

Personally I feel that the game's base UI is fantastic and there's no need to change it, however everyone has their own things that make them comfortable and they should be allowed to.

Every single high end player I've talked to or heard opinions from is in favor as well, because it doesn't affect them and increases player population by increasing game accessibility.

It's very well known that the "no 3rd party programs" mentioned in the ToS is primarily used to prevent harassment due to damage meters (I was literally told this day 2 of playing by a stranger) and to prevent lewd mods for lalafells.

----
The most important part of this is that a majority of the people using these reskins are all new players, coming from WoW.

And as such, there is a portion of the playerbase that is actively attacking and harassing new players during one of the largest growth rate periods the game has seen in it's history.

This harassment will undoubtedly push new players away from the game, or present the image that XIV has a toxic community (which at this point I have no way to deny - the number of toxic people harassing sprouts and new players out of game has been insane lately)

Pushing new players away from the game and presenting the image of a toxic community that pushes new players away are the two ways to stagnate game growth and kill a game before it's time.

Who would want to play a game where they are hated and harassed the moment they leave character creation? Why do all these toxic casuals want to kill the game?

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I came from WoW and only used ELVUI. I can't stand WoW's default UI. FFXIV to me, has a great default UI. I am not against others using different UIs (If ELVUI made a FFXIV UI I might be tempted to.)

I feel bad for the WoW refugees. The game they have loved playing for years and invested their time into has pretty much imploded. If some WoW UI mod gives them some measure of solace, who am I to take that away from them.