Knockbacks in PvP

So ehm.

Seemingly you can just pop a knockback skill in Borderland Ruins and knock anyone off that you wish while they traverse up the dangerous path to the middle.
I tend to laugh at Karens but I feel like a Karen now, getting quite annoyed by it.

How is this a thing? How do I counter this (does surecast work?)
Obviously positioning is a thing but if the other 2 ramps are being used by the other teams, I'm unsure what to do in such a situation then.

Now I wish I had a instakill button.

You're not a Karen. This is a big problem in this mode that the tanks who love using this strategy hope never goes away, but should fear using it because they could easily been seen as harassers.

These things sometimes happened on JP server as well, and always those Lalafells who did it. So annoying.

It's a tactic (also usable on the bridges in Fields of Glory) that requires some careful setup and practice to execute properly, so it's not quite an instakill. MCH have a similar maneuver which likewise requires similar setup.

Used to annoy the hell out of me when I was a victim of it because it seemed like I'd get murdered out of nowhere. But when I started playing tanks in Frontline myself and trying it out, I realized just how tricky it is to actually pull off. However, now that I knew the methodology behind the 'yeet button', it actually became that much easier to avoid since I now know what to look out for.

See a tank running towards me, I just assume they've equipped Full Swing (the knockback attack) - same for MCH and their Blank attack - and I plan accordingly.

• Check my surroundings, don't put myself near ledges I can be thrown from.
• Know the CC abilities available to me on the job I'm playing. Healers can Repose a murderous tank. Ranged DPS have their Graze actions to keep them from getting near enough to swing. Melee DPS can use Fetter Ward to make themselves immune to knockback. Tanks and Magic DPS can.... pray they're faster on the maneuvering.
• Anticipate what a tank has to do to set up the knockback - they'll try to move around you to line you up for the drop, so keep moving around them to spoil their aim.

Honestly, for all the careful tactical planning needed to pull off the move, it's really the only 'high damage' maneuver a tank has in their arsenal and it only works in certain situations/locations. Once you know how it works, as long as you keep your situational awareness you can easily avoid it.

This is the thing, people that complains don’t use any of counter actions available to them. Most of Meele don’t use Fettered Ward because they think healers will bail them out. Ranges wasted their CC on first sight because they thought this is PvE and CC actions is part of their rotation.

Unfortunately, those people who choose to use this tactic not only they understand Frontline and smarter. After all, this tactic is most effective against kill stealers and ignorant people created by Onsal Hakir.

Yes I strong believed Onsal Hakir is the source of all bad PvP experience from shadowbronger

Two most common things I see in Borderlands Ruin:

Weapon Toss, optional tank ability: Range of 15 yards with a 10 Yard pull-in.
Holmgang: Range of 10 yards that ignores bind and knockback resistance on the target (as per the tooltip description). I'd be very interested to see tests as to whether or not Fetter Ward is a viable defense, I cannot claim first hand knowledge.

Additionally, I have no idea if Z levels are even supposed to be considered fair game or not, especially when you consider how certain classes can practically shortcut down long heights. But one thing is clear: There is no safe zone going up the ramp barring the most pixel perfect position thanks to the cliff overlook, and only one class type even has a counter to the use of such abilities, which may be invalidated in the case of Holmgang. Small wonder you mostly see Warriors pulling these stunts if so.

You also generally have no way of seeing the people doing these things going up unless the radar decides to be generous. So people are at best guessing if they'll be next, which needless to say; depreciates from the overall quality of the match, but does give the team doing it a small tactical advantage.

So for whatever validity there is to knockback as a tactic, there is no denying it becomes ridiculous on Borderlands in particular, this is mechanically allowed just not fun when abused constantly.

The counterplay right now consists of climbing up the far side of the ramp (you won't get pull in enough to fall), or using KB immunity on WAR or melee or if they are not WAR you can CC them as a ranged. With these, the only way you can still get dumpstered is if you are a ranged and they have someone using a longer ranged disable with them, as yes there are people who queue up with others and spend the whole map up there. As you can see, the stipulations are immense.

So, a solution is there for most situations, but is the counterplay fun? I would say no, I don't like the experience anymore with counterplay in mind. But if I am being honest, I don't like fall damage in FFXIV, and I don't like that map. I think it's the weakest FL map for a lot of reasons and whenever it's the map of the day I know there are a lot of us who don't want to play FL. The most fun fights happen when a whole alliance meets at an intermediary point at the side bases. Otherwise it's an underwhelming objective that's undertuned in value and the matches go to time more often than not. I think maybe if the middle was dug in rather than an ascending ramp it might offer value outside of objective time and end up with more flanks to make the matches more conclusive.

I dont think it is a issue. If anything, PvP needs more elements like these to make things more interesting. It is already difficult enough to kill a single enemy on your own (unless youre part of the glorious Melee DPS meta that favours Monk and Dragoon).

I wont deny that it is annoying for anyone to fall for a "cheese" like this, but then again, we only got ourselves to blame if we fall for a bait like this in the first place, and it can be not only avoided, but used to your advantage as well, you only need to find out the "how".

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Originally Posted by Novani

But one thing is clear: There is no safe zone going up the ramp barring the most pixel perfect position thanks to the cliff overlook

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Alright, I gotta share a story regarding this specific scenario.

So we'd been up against a team that had a cluster of tanks who liked to go 'fishing' off that overlook, that is to say stand up there and use Weapon Toss to yank people off the ramp as they passed. Quite annoying.

Then I realized, if I was in range to get ganked, then they were also in range to get ganked.

So on next mid cycle I switched to a tank and waited for them to show up again - Soooo satisfying to yonk one of them off their cliff and watch them slip into the gap beside the ramp and fall alllll the way down. The rest scattered after that.

Good times.

Also, for what it's worth the area at the top of the ramp where one is vulnerable to getting 'fished' isn't as big as it seems. You have to be standing at just the right spot on the cliff to be able to pull someone off and into the gap, otherwise they enter slide back down the ramp or drop onto that stone ledge which while annoying is not fatal. And if the target is sprinting, on a mount, or moving evasively the window of opportunity to execute a successful pull is very small.

There's no issue with this at all. It's a skill they have and can use it freely. Harassers? LMAO what a joke. Just learn to adapt to it and don't get caught by it. MCH can do it too with Blank.

If you're getting annoyed with being knocked off the top in secure I would avoid playing shatter.

Getting back on topic, if you don't want to deal with being knocked off you have 2 options:
1.) Be the first group to grab mid. That way you can abuse that tactic.
2. Get a monopoly on the bases if you're able to. Holding all bases are worth 32 points a tick, way more valuable than what people are fighting for in mid.
If your team can't do either then you'll have no choice but to deal with that.

So I have seen warriors jump and holmgang you off the edge. It is a cool display of timing and skill. But the other day I saw a warrior Holmgang me and then run off the edge while active. I was confused and went back and watched him do the same thing to someone else. And then yes I let him do it to me again to try to figure it out. Am I missing something. I thought you weren't suppose to be able to run with Holmgang. He survived all the drops with 1HP.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

So I have seen warriors jump and holmgang you off the edge. It is a cool display of timing and skill. But the other day I saw a warrior Holmgang me and then run off the edge while active. I was confused and went back and watched him do the same thing to someone else. And then yes I let him do it to me again to try to figure it out. Am I missing something. I thought you weren't suppose to be able to run with Holmgang. He survived all the drops with 1HP.

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I do this all the time in shatter
very fun do recommend

Hmm, unless the wording of the TOS is changed (blocking someone else's enjoyment of the game) or the abilities of the tanks themselves in Frontlines, tossing people over the side of high spots for an easy kill is technically harassment. I kind of like the idea of the Tank abilities being changed to make them have to be more strategic in using them. For example knock backs causing the tanks to be stunned or take extra damage for five seconds, and Warriors being unable to move when using Howlmang.

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Originally Posted by Walkerged

Hmm, unless the wording of the TOS is changed (blocking someone else's enjoyment of the game) or the abilities of the tanks themselves in Frontlines, tossing people over the side of high spots for an easy kill is technically harassment. I kind of like the idea of the Tank abilities being changed to make them have to be more strategic in using them. For example knock backs causing the tanks to be stunned or take extra damage for five seconds, and Warriors being unable to move when using Howlmang.

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I would use that tactic if it meant getting battle high quicker. I don't see how that can be considered harassment seeing that some people will fall for the same bait.

Also, tanks do have a trade off. You can only target one person to knock off the cliff. They can't do anything else if they're dealing with a crowd. (smh) Imagine if samurais had reacquired their aoe knockback....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Walkerged

Hmm, unless the wording of the TOS is changed (blocking someone else's enjoyment of the game) or the abilities of the tanks themselves in Frontlines, tossing people over the side of high spots for an easy kill is technically harassment. I kind of like the idea of the Tank abilities being changed to make them have to be more strategic in using them. For example knock backs causing the tanks to be stunned or take extra damage for five seconds, and Warriors being unable to move when using Howlmang.

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Is this one of those out of date April Fool Joke?
When I killing someone repeatedly (and I always do through normal means) I technically blocking that person's enjoyment of the game because he is definitely going to experience either one of the following emotions: anger, frustration, or anxiety.
You are going to report me as harassing?
What a joke!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Walkerged

Hmm, unless the wording of the TOS is changed (blocking someone else's enjoyment of the game) or the abilities of the tanks themselves in Frontlines, tossing people over the side of high spots for an easy kill is technically harassment. I kind of like the idea of the Tank abilities being changed to make them have to be more strategic in using them. For example knock backs causing the tanks to be stunned or take extra damage for five seconds, and Warriors being unable to move when using Howlmang.

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If I kill you in PVP by utilizing skills that I have in my arsenal, regardless of what it is, I'm GOING to impede on your enjoyment if you view it like that. Might as well toss PVP out the window, since killing people is blocking someone else's enjoyment of the game, and thus technically harassment.

(No. I don't want PVP removed)