Idea to make DF less annoying for DPS.

Long queues in 4/8 player content are bothersome and really unnecessary at this point. I'd say the best way to solve this is to add more DPS slots to this content. WoW has a 5 player small duty content setup; there's no reason FFXIV couldn't do the same. Then we could change 8 player DF content to 10. If that's not enough we could add more DPS slots until the queues even out.

I think Alliance raids are already relatively fair for DPS as far as queues go, so those can stay as is.

The great thing is that SE wouldn't even have to rebalance the content. DF is already pretty unapologetically easy, so is anyone really going to notice if it becomes marginally easier? We can keep the 8 player setup for things like Savage/Ultimate, though.

I'm just curious when someone will accuse you to be Titanmen. :)

Nevertheless, rebalancing should be easy. Just increase the hitpoints of the mobs by 50%. :)

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

I'm just curious when someone will accuse you to be Titanmen. :)

Nevertheless, rebalancing should be easy. Just increase the hitpoints of the mobs by 33%. :)

Cheers

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I mean, it's not that I think rebalancing would be difficult. It's just that SE always seems to be reluctant to place any extra strain on healers in small group content.

I know what im going to suggest is neither popular nor whats best for the game, but ive always been partial to keeping each role limited to just 1, including DPS. I want to know which party member isnt holding their weight, w/o the use of a 3rd party add on. (which i cant use on the PS4 anyways) normal leveling dungeons: 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 DPS. in raids, having a "spare" of each is fine. (6 total)

edit: of course i feel the best way to balance this, is to allow jobs/classes to queue up as at least 2 different roles. in case they really need to get in quick.
both of these wouldnt be possible for 14. so this is just mentioning this, for the sake of mentioning it.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Long queues in 4/8 player content are bothersome and really unnecessary at this point. I'd say the best way to solve this is to add more DPS slots ...

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I have found that a majority of my queues for DPS, both initial instances and daily roulettes, on the NA data centers are less than 15 minutes in length. There are other things I can do during that time, including crafting/gathering, leveling alt jobs, and MSQ/side-quests that don't require single-person duties.

Time-of-day does appear to affect queue times. Queueing for an instance at 1 am in the morning on a server in the NA data center will take longer, simply because there are fewer players online.

As I have chances to play anywhere from 5 am to 11 pm most days, queue times have not been a problem for me.

The problem is not long queues, as players cycle through those queues fairly quickly at this time. It is expectations of how much time one should be in queue for a story-based instance.

Altering the Battle Systems and making changes to the queueing algorithms to accommodate those alterations, are two items that would require much more work than some people think. And, while OP may think that rebalancing isn't an issue, believe me when I say that it is a Big Deal for a game with nearly 8 years of Battle Content already set in stone.

Ever consider making some friends? Maybe join an active FC? Or make use of party finder? These things can lead to instant que times for any DPS player.

The wait times are what one would expect for a role that everyone and their mothers play. Adding one more slot for a dps wouldn't affect things much, if at all. I'm not opposed to 5 man dungeons or 10 man raids (WoW player for over a decade here!), I just don't think it'll make the difference you think it will for dps.

The best way of making dps queues better is to make people want to play healers and tanks and spread the numbers a bit.

Sadly SE hasn't grasped that. Healers are at their worst, and several tanks have seen better days. So everyone's playing dps right now.

As it stands now tank queues are already hitting double digits often enough. All this would do is shift the burden from DPS to tanks. You can't solve queues simply by adding more slots, which itself would require a massive rework of all the content. Unless more people start playing healers tank and DPS queues are going to take time.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

The best way of making dps queues better is to make people want to play healers and tanks and spread the numbers a bit.

Sadly SE hasn't grasped that. Healers are at their worst, and several tanks have seen better days. So everyone's playing dps right now.

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The ratios of job mains in game honestly isn't much different than any other MMO out there that doesn't have a broken OP tank or healer job or class in the game. It's easier to e-peen over damage numbers than it is over how well you take a hit or keep ppl from dying. It get's skewed further when player behavior makes the ones playing tank or healer not want to do group content on that role. The problem is going to exist no matter what SE does because it's a player created issue.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

The best way of making dps queues better is to make people want to play healers and tanks and spread the numbers a bit.

Sadly SE hasn't grasped that. Healers are at their worst, and several tanks have seen better days. So everyone's playing dps right now.

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So heres the real problem. Healers can't heal stupid, and tanks get abused all the time. These are the 2 most thankless roles in any mmo always as they are the ones influenced by other players behaviors the most. You will always have less of them then the pew pew lazer classes.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

The best way of making dps queues better is to make people want to play healers and tanks and spread the numbers a bit.

Sadly SE hasn't grasped that. Healers are at their worst, and several tanks have seen better days. So everyone's playing dps right now.

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It doesn't help that tanks and healers have performance requirements to meet from their very first dungeon while dps rarely have any responsibilities until they reach Extreme content. Plenty of players are willing to trade an increased queue time for a responsibility-free carry through their roulettes. Until dps are held to a standard by the game's mechanics (soft/hard enrages, burn phases, post-dungeon leaderboards, etc) these players have no reason to play anything else.

As long as tanks and healers are seen as a burden to play, dps will remain overpopulated.

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Originally Posted by DragoAskani

So heres the real problem. Healers can't heal stupid, and tanks get abused all the time. These are the 2 most thankless roles in any mmo always as they are the ones influenced by other players behaviors the most. You will always have less of them then the pew pew lazer classes.

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I remember being a healer in a Bismark normal (trial roulette) back at the start of SB. No one would avoid any of the mechanics, DPS kept getting hit by the aoes and the tornado, tanks wouldn't move things away from aoes. Everyone literally standing in all the bad without even trying to move. We kept wiping because they couldn't stay alive to beat the enrage and this was with my co-healer and I doing everything we could to keep them up (that's all we could do, we didn't have time to dps ourselves). One of the tanks tried to blame it on us. My co-healer immediately said "We're healers, not Jesus. So we can't heal stupid." Amazingly the next run all the tanks and dps started doing mechanics. I was sad I could only give my co-healer one comm.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

Sadly SE hasn't grasped that. Healers are at their worst, and several tanks have seen better days. So everyone's playing dps right now.

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Everyone plays the DPS role because they don’t want the responsibility of protecting and keeping the party alive. DPS is a job you can breeze through dungeons and not put that much thought into it, especially at earlier levels. People fear failing the group as a tank/healer.

I’ve levelled both White Mage and Astrologian to 80, I think both of them are a lot of fun and see nothing wrong with the jobs at all. Scholar is next on my list because I enjoy healing and find it satisfying.

Games that have the trinity just have more people who play dps in general. Anecdotally when I started playing this way back when - I went dps, but I think it's because this is the first game where I decided to NOT be a tank or healer main. I just didn't want to be the tank or healer anymore. I have started playing tank and healer much more this expac though for the variety.

But I do think a lot play dps because they don't want the responsibility of tanking or healing. Or, just don't have the confidence and are worried they'll get people killed? Though you can do that as a dps too if you do mechanics wrong or stack aoes on others.

WoW has the 3 DPS set up and wait times as a DD are honestly worse than in FFXIV. I've waited up to an hour for groups over there (on a high pop server during peak hours) whereas the absolute longest I've waited here is 25 mins.

And I honestly enjoy healing in duties, more than dps. Feels good when you save what would otherwise be a wipe with timely rezzes and healing through people ignoring mechanics.

I do agree that the dps rotation isn't very inspired and it's the reason I have a dps class for MSQ and whatnot. I'm unsure how to fix that without bloating our hotbars (they're already pretty busy as it is). Maybe if they could combine some of our healing functionality into less buttons, but I wouldn't want an over-simplified healing kit either.

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Originally Posted by Lexis

WoW has the 3 DPS set up and wait times as a DD are honestly worse than in FFXIV. I've waited up to an hour for groups over there (on a high pop server during peak hours) whereas the absolute longest I've waited here is 25 mins.

And I honestly enjoy healing in duties, more than dps. Feels good when you save what would otherwise be a wipe with timely rezzes and healing through people ignoring mechanics.

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This was my experience back in WoW as well; the wait times could be crazy, waiting anywhere from 20 to 30 to even 40+ minutes for a group, and that was with the automated finder. Using the PF there could take even longer.

When I play as DPS, my wait times here in FFXIV have never been that bad, lol. Similarly, the longest I've ever waited has been 20-25min and even then I barely noticed because there's so much other actually fun stuff to do.

Also, 100% agree how awesome tanking and healing can be, as a Tank pushing through a boss when most of the group wipes or as a healer bringing a party back from the brink of destruction for the ultimate win!

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

Everyone plays the DPS role because they don’t want the responsibility of protecting and keeping the party alive. DPS is a job you can breeze through dungeons and not put that much thought into it, especially at earlier levels. People fear failing the group as a tank/healer.

I’ve levelled both White Mage and Astrologian to 80, I think both of them are a lot of fun and see nothing wrong with the jobs at all. Scholar is next on my list because I enjoy healing and find it satisfying.

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I've done the same, playing dungeons first as a DPS so I can get a feel for it, but then usually do a lot more tanking or healing after (depending on need, etc.)

And another interesting note, I've seen how a lot of other folks don't seem to care much for the current iterations of Tanks and Healers, and while my experience is admittedly limited, I'm still enjoying myself quite a bit with every Job I play. I've got my core "holy trinity" going already and decently geared (GNB, AST, BLM), but I've already dabbled in other Jobs and am enjoying them.

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

Ever consider making some friends? Maybe join an active FC? Or make use of party finder? These things can lead to instant que times for any DPS player.

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Friends and FCs would only get in the way of my badass lone wolf lifestyle.

Anyways, the lack of personal attacks and/or irrationally dramatic responses here disgusts me. This forum seems to be losing it's entertainment value. It may be time for me to move on.

https://data.whicdn.com/images/117008412/original.gif

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Originally Posted by DragoAskani

So heres the real problem. Healers can't heal stupid, and tanks get abused all the time. These are the 2 most thankless roles in any mmo always as they are the ones influenced by other players behaviors the most. You will always have less of them then the pew pew lazer classes.

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While I don't disagree with either you or Ritsuko, a better gameplay experience for tanks and healers helps mitigate this to an extent. Yes, both roles can be incredibly thankless at times but people will often put up with it if the majority of their experience is fun. Healers lack in this regard. You either stand around doing absolutely nothing or you learn how to optimize which results in being a gimped DPS 75% of the time. And this is on top of the aforementioned thanklessness. Tanks have it a little better but only in giant pulls. Bosses certainly don't phase them whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Jaelommiss

It doesn't help that tanks and healers have performance requirements to meet from their very first dungeon while dps rarely have any responsibilities until they reach Extreme content. Plenty of players are willing to trade an increased queue time for a responsibility-free carry through their roulettes. Until dps are held to a standard by the game's mechanics (soft/hard enrages, burn phases, post-dungeon leaderboards, etc) these players have no reason to play anything else.

As long as tanks and healers are seen as a burden to play, dps will remain overpopulated.

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And this is another issue. DPS really need some degree of responsibility in content. Deathwing from Dun Scaith should be standard for all bosses. He has a fairly generous enrage but enough of one to make a point. Alas, this won't happen as the devs want casual content to be easily clearable with minimal effort. All while forgetting that lack of responsibility for the DPS contributes to why players won't bother playing tanks or healers.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

The best way of making dps queues better is to make people want to play healers and tanks and spread the numbers a bit.

Sadly SE hasn't grasped that. Healers are at their worst, and several tanks have seen better days. So everyone's playing dps right now.

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It honestly doesn't matter what they'll do to tanks and healers, they will be less "popular" either way. It's like this in the majority of MMOs that have Healer/Tank/DPS triad.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

The ratios of job mains in game honestly isn't much different than any other MMO out there that doesn't have a broken OP tank or healer job or class in the game. It's easier to e-peen over damage numbers than it is over how well you take a hit or keep ppl from dying. It get's skewed further when player behavior makes the ones playing tank or healer not want to do group content on that role. The problem is going to exist no matter what SE does because it's a player created issue.

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Pretty much this. People want to play "resposibility free" and also "cooler looking" jobs. And as much as tanks and healers are simple to play gameplay wise, both roles are mentally exhausting because of other players attitude towards them, and SE can't fix that. I love tanking and healing but gods after some dungeon runs I'm questioning my choices.

increasing dps would not lower the queue time, people would just switch over to dps instead until it got back to 10-15 min queue times, which seems to be about the limit before some go tank/healer instead.