Helping newbies, excelling in one's role, and being a team player should be its own reward to be strived for -- but there's no denying that we all love getting commendations as recognition for our efforts. It's an ingenious system, and I think every MMO should have something like it. However, I think the reward system currently in place could be improved.
By this point, I'm sure many players have already gotten every achievement reward there is, so commendations don't really have any appreciable value anymore. It's also possible that many players have researched what the commendation rewards are, and decided a lot of them aren't very appealing. I think a lot of new players are motivated by the "Heart of the Party" title, but from that point on the appeal of the rewards feels somewhat lacking. From the Princely Hatchling that I never see anyone use, to the dinky hat glamour for our character and chocobo, to the very erroneously-named "Best Gown Ever." Admittedly, the Gilded Magitek Armor and Parade Chocobo are cool -- but, that's it -- after you have all those, there is literally nothing more to earn.
Enter: a new spendable currency called Commendation Coins! For each commendation you earn, you get one coin. You can spend these coins at special vendors for exclusive rewards. These are completely separate from your lifetime total of commendations that go toward the achievement rewards -- that old system would remain in place, untouched, and coins would not be given retroactively for past commendations.
Here are some quick and dirty ideas I had for Commendation Coin rewards:
Pay-It-Forward Token: For the cost of one Commendation Coin, you can gift another player in a Roulette two commendations instead of one.
Echo: Apply an Echo-like boost to your dungeon, trial, or raid group's stats (only usable if you queued solo via Roulette)
Superior Food Consumables: Unique food or drink items that grant a higher EXP bonus than normal (maybe 5% or 8%).
Rare, High-Quality Crafting Materials or Collectables (I don't want to risk harming the gathering/crafting community here, so feel free to yell at me if this is an inherently terrible idea)
Grand Company Seals
Beast Tribe Reputation Boost: A consumable that grants you increased reputation gain upon completion of Beast Tribe quests (perhaps applicable only to past expansions).
MGP
Chocobo Companion EXP Certificates
Grade 4 Racing Chocobo Feed: Grants higher stat boosts than normal and EXP gained in their next race is increased
Superior Free Company Buffs
Increased Loot Drops and/or Drop Chance: Applicable to any dungeon or trial.
Select Glamours, Minions, Mounts, Emotes, etc. I'm thinking some of the older stuff that was previously free if you played the game and has since made its way to the MogStation. I mean, would anyone honestly be mad if we got things like Wind-up Shantotto or Bomb Dance back if it cost us some commendations?
I'm sure you all can use your imaginations to come up with better rewards than I can, but I just wanted to put the idea out there. There can be big, long-term prizes to win -- but I think this system works best when the Commendation Coins are not something you hoard and hold onto, but rather something you regularly spend and are perpetually seeking to earn from your fellow players.
How about it? Do you like this idea, or am I completely off my nut?
TL;DR: What if commendations were a currency you could spend to buy cool stuff?
Idea: Commendation Coins
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09-14-2021, 01:57 PMFyrebrandIdea: Commendation Coins
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09-14-2021, 02:10 PMItMeThat could be a cool way to keep commendations... relevant(?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrebrand
That doesn't feel like the right word...
My first thought was the shop could have glamour pieces and mounts like the achievement shop, but I think you've got a better angle with focusing on consumable items/effects.
If consumable they could be a consistent way to drain/spend commendation coins, so you wouldn't have to deal with the nutty prices a one time purchase like a glamour piece would have, and you wouldn't be saving up forever just to buy something.
Neat idea. -
09-14-2021, 02:16 PMGarnix
Good idea. I would also be fine if each comm simply gave me a few gils to be honest.
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09-14-2021, 02:18 PMShougun
Loooooong ago, before the commendation system, I had suggested using the mailing system (because I really want that to be a thing in the game lol) to receive other worldly letters with gifts from other players who liked your presence in the dungeon/content (none of the reward token ideas were this creative though, it's a nice list :)). One of the reasons why it was to be used to mail, not sure if I made it clear when posting at the time, was by not having it at the end of dungeon you could separate the issue of only having one free gift to give when there were more than one in the group (so like a day or two later you'd just get mail from another world). Also then it wouldn't be important to quickly pick who you liked because it's not like they received the 'commendation' right away anyway. I don't think I had thought of it at the time but having these delivered in bulk would have been smart, .. maybe because the game was less popular at the time but that'd clearly not work singularly delivered commendations in the mail lol. Anyway, these void gifts could be used to buy other things. In my mind a moogle would have been more important than they are now, so you'd get kupo feedback talking about good a person you are and cute stuff like that lol.
Btw I really like the echo idea. Blue Mage, for the most part once you get both a spam-able heal and healer mimicry (with basic, which is easy to get) becomes really strong solo but one idea had been an incense they could burn to greatly enhance their power (made by beast tribe quests) for solo content sync or doing like raid content unsync (1 person doing a 24 man content lol).
I have had reservations about some of the rewards and maybe people turning this into the new "Mentor" thing.. just seems like a few bad apples are going mess it up.. but in a vacuum at least I read the idea and think that'd be fun.
I really enjoy the ideas of people rewarding each other like a Death Stranding system. Wonder if there might be some cute mechanic in pay it forward where there is a chance a pay it forward commendation replicates itself into that person's possession (such that they can then pay another forward, not crazy high chance but still ;)). -
09-14-2021, 02:37 PMJeeqbitThis type of content is far too easy and you want to make it easier?Quote:
Echo: Apply an Echo-like boost to your dungeon, trial, or raid group's stats (only usable if you queued solo via Roulette)
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09-14-2021, 02:44 PMDrWho2010
while the idea is nice, the rewards you suggest I just can't see them implementing that. They would rather create something new and then get abandoned just like achievement certificate currency.
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09-14-2021, 03:26 PMGarnix
The "problem" with achievement certificates is that achievements are a one-time thing. So the rewards pretty much have to be one-time things as well. I think they should have added at least a minion in each patch or something like that (or...*coughcruisechasercough*), so that's a bummer, and that's one of those things that I hope someone points out to them during the media tour interviews.
Adding rewards to the comm system is different, as they could provide usable/stackable rewards. So even if they abandon it, it could stay relevant.
Just like Centurio Seals are still somewhat relevant because of the teleport tickets, or the GC seals that you can buy retainer ventures with.
Those were added in ARR and I still use them sometimes, even though the reward list is unchanged. -
09-14-2021, 03:37 PMFyrebrandThat's a fine word, and represents my intent well enough. I guess "evergreen" would ideally be how I'd put it -- a system that is timeless and always useful no matter what the current state of the game is. Whatever terminology we want to employ, however, I realize this could be a real pain in the neck for the developers. With every new patch, they might have to make new tweaks to the Commendation Coin mechanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItMe
I like that idea. When you don't know who your benefactor is, you feel compelled to be nice to everyone equally. Obviously, this is why commendations are awarded after a duty is completed and all players have left and gone their separate ways. Similarly, in a lot of online games, exploiters and bots are banned in waves at set intervals, rather than acting upon them as soon as they're discovered. This is done so as to not give away hints regarding when and why they were discovered. The same could go for encouraging friendly and constructive play: when you don't know who is rewarding you, you seek to please everyone. I wish we didn't need that degree of artificiality to force people to be nice, but it is what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
I gotta be honest, that aspect of the system only came to me as I was typing it out for my forum post, but it's my favourite part of the whole "Commendation Coins" idea and I think it has the most potential. Players will always be selfish and do what they want to do, but developers still have a lot of power to design mechanics that naturally bring players together and see each other as allies instead of enemies or obstacles. I have played MMOs where I strongly hated seeing other players around, because they would take my resources and quest goals, or try to outright murder me. But I have also played MMOs where having other players around is nothing but a good thing, we're all on the same team, and as a result we all feel an urge to help one another.Quote:
I really enjoy the ideas of people rewarding each other like a Death Stranding system.
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09-15-2021, 12:16 AMRecon1o6
Here's one idea. Everyone's had that time at some point where the particular glamour or gear item just doesnt drop OR everyone keeps outrolling you no matter how much you farm.
These commendations can become a currency to purchase old content gear. Dungeons and alliance raids primarily is what I'm thinking but you could feasibly have it for all content. Hell you could have it with current savage content with jacked up prices to compensate for the fact that relic weapons never catch up till the last patch when they are worthless outside of glam.
Eg: I want the bonewicca caster boots so I have some armour on my feet as a rdm and I hate being in cloth all the time. I could spend some of my commendations to get that instead of fruitlessly wasting more hours, because I have never seen those boots drop in all my runs.
eg2: I was unable to play for much of 5.3 and 5.2 thanks to the pandemic, but I'd really like the edenchoir daggers. Now that's no longer current, I might as well forget about obtaining them because they're from E8s which is one of the most frustrating fights in the game and so nobody fills the PF's I put up. -
09-15-2021, 02:27 AMIllmaeran
This is a great idea, but what about the poor DPS? ;) I'm half-kidding, half not. Any coin prices would have to be low enough that DPS don't get priced out. I've been playing for years and have only received 128 commendations since I haven't played a tank or healer since ARR, and only then when I had a wild hair to level all my jobs to 50.
I like your list and would like to combine it with Recon's idea- allow people to buy specific items from dungeons ***they've already run***. Since dungeon gear is now untradeable I don't see this causing an economic problem and would be a boon to people trying to gear up and/or get glamour items. -
09-15-2021, 03:16 AMItMePerhaps it would change the way people com each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Illmaeran
If not, they could always weigh the number of coins you get based on your class. 1 com doesn't have to equal 1 coin. -
09-15-2021, 03:58 AMBreakbeat
Yeah, agreed. Personally, even playing as DPS, I find it hard to have a reason to give commendations to DPS. I... I don't know how much one is actually contributing, since - for the most part and commonly - there are no DPS meters to look at. In any given dungeon I run, I could be doing 99% of the DPS, 1% of the DPS, or it could be any split in-between. Did the run feel slow? I dunno, it's my first time through for most of these places. Even in the future, if the run is five minutes longer or shorter, there's really no way to chalk that up to 'awesome DPS' unless we refer back to those pesky meters I mentioned.
The tank or heals doing their job satisfactorily is obvious to the whole group; a DPS doing their job means, what, the duty completion time was acceptable? The completion time was quick? We're already finishing with 75 or 85 minutes left on that timer. It's difficult to quantify.
It's a cool system, I suppose, but it's a bit broke. I've begun to give commendations to DPS solely because they are, in fact, DPS, and I know how much less frequently they'll get commendations.
Plus, and I know I am still leveling up, but folks just bail straight out of the instance before I can even hit ESC and skip a cutscene... and if I want to look at the loot and do rolls first, then forget it. Everyone else is gone by the time I click 'greed' on two greens.
I think it would be cool if I could possibly think for two seconds about who deserves it, then hand it out regardless of whether the person exited the instance or not. -
09-15-2021, 06:15 AMJojoya
The more reasons you create for players to get commendations, the more they award them for the wrong reasons and the more bad mentors the game gets.
Remove commendations from the mentor system requirements and I wouldn't object to turning commendations into a currency.
But it would also be a system subject to abuse. Get your friends coordinated to solo queue for the same duty at the same time so you could "win-trade" commendations with each other, as an example. Right now, there's no reason to do it unless you're trying to help a friend to get the last few commendations they need for their BK crown. Add more rewards to the system, and it will happen frequently.
You'd be more likely to get the chance to think about it if by sticking around, the player might get something they want from it. Right now people don't stick around because they weren't there to get commendations in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakbeat
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09-15-2021, 06:40 AMItMeHonestly... if that's the worst it could get abused that's kinda small potatoes (said one Lala to another). I'd deal with friends slowly gifting each other coins for a temporary buff to beast tribe reputation and the like if it means we can even have this nifty coin system at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
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09-15-2021, 08:00 AMLiam_HarperHard disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrebrand
Commendations are a joke and rarely go to the player who performed the best. They go to the best glam, random tank/heal, the player who plays a class you like, someone who remembered Peleton exists, 0 dps healbots and so on. I don't blame the players either, random dungeon sprouts just aren't qualified to judge who put in the best effort or contributed most to the team, especially when any metrics regarding performance is carefully hidden in this game.
Comms could serve well as a "this player was friendly" token of appreciation, but tying them to mentorship was already a terrible idea, never mind adding rewards to that too. -
09-15-2021, 12:56 PMBreakbeatFair enough and true, if they don't want one, it doesn't matter whether or not I give them one. For my own personal pleasure, I'd still like to be able to give a commendation to the person who deserved it, regardless of whether or not they stick around. /shrugQuote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
By the same token, I literally don't want a commendation just because I'm the only one left who didn't exit. I can earn enough commendations via actual effort (communication, good vibes, etc.) to get the achievements or titles or vanity stuff that's available.
The intentions behind this system are honorable and positive. In practice, though, it doesn't work properly. You've got the things I brought up, and the points you brought up, either of which negate the intent. DPS can't normally demonstrate that they actually deserve a commendation, and the people that end up receiving them are just whoever's left in the instance last, or, indeed...
Quote:
They go to the best glam, random tank/heal, the player who plays a class you like, someone who remembered Peleton exists, 0 dps healbots and so on.
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09-16-2021, 02:41 PMFyrebrandQuote:
Originally Posted by Illmaeran
This is a toughie, to be sure. I know DPS tend to (somewhat unfairly) get less commendations, but if you implement a system where DPS get more rewards for doing the same thing I fear it could provoke backlash. Some people might refuse to comm DPS out of spite, or simply adopt the impression that DPS don't need to be commended as often because of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItMe
I'm with you! It sucks when you want to commend a specific person, only to find they've left the group. Obviously the game still knows who you were grouped with, and the party chat logs are still there -- I don't see why they can't just keep the full party list available in the commendations window.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakbeat
I think people should grant commendations for whatever reason they want to. Whether the player performed exceptionally, or was helpful in explaining mechanics, or was just fun and pleasant to have around, or they were a newbie who was honestly trying to learn and had a good attitude, it's not that important. We're not voting for the next world leader here, it's essentially just giving somebody a cookie. In fact, forget the whole idea of Commendation Coins, from now on it's Commendation Cookies!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
I mean, I've never engaged with the Novice Network or Mentors, and every anecdote I've heard about it has been negative or toxic in some way. Do we really need this system at all? I think people are perfectly capable of figuring things out, using Google, or just asking around in game. We have plenty of friendly players who are willing to help out newbies, and I'd wager most of them aren't even Mentors or seek to become one.Quote:
Remove commendations from the mentor system requirements and I wouldn't object to turning commendations into a currency.
Does this really work reliably? I feel like you can easily just not wind up in the same instance as your friends, and even if you do, now you're running some dungeon that at least some of you really don't need and wasting a lot of time. If this became a widely-used exploit, how about if you can't give a commendation to anybody on your Friends list or who is in your FC?Quote:
it would also be a system subject to abuse. Get your friends coordinated to solo queue for the same duty at the same time so you could "win-trade" commendations with each other, as an example. Right now, there's no reason to do it unless you're trying to help a friend to get the last few commendations they need for their BK crown. Add more rewards to the system, and it will happen frequently.
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09-17-2021, 01:47 AMItMeAh frick, thats a good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrebrand
This is a toughie to be sure. -
09-17-2021, 04:40 AMJojoyaGoogle search only works if you know the right keywords to use and if the sources it directs you to are current and reputable. I just started a new FC and one of the new players who joined was talking about how they were working hard to get Archer to 15 so they would be able to unlock Black Mage once their Thaumaturge reaches 30. I closed my eyes, internally sighed "oh no" then said "stop, you don't need to". "But this guide I found online said..." "It's outdated. The game has changed."Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrebrand
A player resource to turn to is generally going to be better (assuming you don't end up with a troll). Active players have current information and frequently can bridge the terminology gap through shared game experiences. They can also recommend things the new player may not even realize exist and so wouldn't know to search.
The idea behind the Mentor system is great. Theoretically, having the Mentor icon enabled means "Hi, you can come to me with your questions about the game". New players can talk to those individuals instead of filling up shout chat or bothering someone who doesn't care to help.
The mentor system isn't working well because there are people who are joining for the rewards, not because they're interested in helping others. Some like to say "I'm helping fill queues" but the reality is that roulettes are filling the queues for everything but EX trials and the ones who are "filling queues" will drop if placed into an EX via Mentor Roulette.
Remove the rewards from the system and those who enjoy helping others will continue to join, while it will rid the system of those clogging up the system who only care about the rewards. The rewards can always stay in the game through other means. The mount could be moved to completing 4000 roulettes in general instead of 2000 Mentor Roulettes, as an example. That way those who have already been working toward it will still get credit from the Mentor roulettes they've already completed. Leave the crown attached to earning 1500 commendations since commendations are more about vanity than anything else. It's very fitting with the number of players who want it solely for vanity's sake.