Dps vs Healing misstarget settle argument

Now that i've moved on from this argument I'd like to get some healers advice on if I was doing too much dps and learn from it. But first, this is 100% my fault the tank died thats not the argument. Was first time in Brayflox's Longstop, did a big pull that I caught up too after watching the cutscene. Was going okay but I wasn't really prepared for how much damage was being taken, i've basicly been green dps up to this point. Whatever about the pull, I did some rocks, did some cure 2s was going okay, was dropping to 300-500 probably a bit too low in hindsight. The main cause of the argument was, I was casting stone, finished stone, then cast cure 2, but accidentally cast it on myself rather than the tank. The tank proceded to die during the next cast. I believe swiftcast was on cd.

the argument was basicly, im dpsing too much and that got the tank killed, while I think if I hit him with that cure 2 he would have been fine. The result was me not dpsing for the rest of the dungeon. Is it my fault due to too much dps or missing the cure 2 cast. Should I not be letting them get basicly 1 failed cure away from death? i've usually been healing around half-40% hp as long as i know they wont die during my cast due to high damage.

Like you said, you mis-cast Cure II. That's easily enough to kill a tank on a big pull at that level. Sounds like you're doing fine. Don't let one mistake get you down, everyone makes countless mistakes on their journey through the game.

Letting the tank be one failed cure 2 away from death is fine, because if you don't put yourself in these solutions you aren't going to learn to not fail any Cure II's. Being in those situations heightens your awareness of party health and what you can and can't get away with, which leads to both being a better healer and more valuable to the group on damage. Stick with it.

Ya did fine!

Also, a wipe a day keeps the doc' at bay ^^

You tried, you failed and the tank died.
Don't worry about it, it's not the end of the world. Mistakes happen while learning but if you're trying to avoid any situation that could lead to mistakes, you're never going to learn either. I had this happen to me so many times when first learning FFXIV healer in ARR... in addition to several "oops locked myself in Cleric Stance, guess we're dead".
You're not tunneling or dpsing too much, you're just trying to find the sweet spot for when to heal and that's a good thing.
You will probably make several more mistakes but you're doing fine and it sounds like you already have a pretty good idea about when healing is neccessary and when it's not. You just misclicked. So keep going, keep throwing Stones :)

Hate to be negative but amma be honest. Healers sadly dps way too much I feel to the point that I dont believe they are so called experts cause they wanna out dps actual dps which i doubt is not possible vs jobs like blm or sam. Whm is top guilty on this at least an ast or sch may be qhick to hit es or lust. Idk if its the sound of stones breaking on enemies is so enticing like alluring embrace. Even things trials and raids exs savages when I see how my co healer perform again my top fav thing as example emerald weapon orb mechanic after poping 1 ball healer should pop a fast quick heal via swift to soak other ball as you have so few seconds to get the other. co healer too busy dpsing that either them and partner die or half people die or everyone die. It as bad as if 2 or more people die and i cast res but co healer still dpsing and doing 0 res?

I say this in all post a heal bot and green dps bot is both bad balance is key and remember u cant out dps most dps jobs as healer. something like bard maybe but not a sam or blm unless they dont know how the rotation works. Balance is key do everything but then again whm dont even have much party things to give in support vs ast and sch so guess no wonder they so dps bot minded. If you rather pleasure of beating others in dos. Dps jobs is way to go.

I rather get a healer who dps too much then a healer that doesn't dps. You're learning so making mistakes happens, just learn and limit test on tanks.

Please don't become one of those healers that let tanks drop to 10% because they are DPSing, being constantly in the edge of death is bad, specially for the tank's heart. As with everything in life, balance is the key.

I recommend that you follow this priority list:

1. Safety over DPS, always. If you are unsure about the incoming damage from a mechanic or a pull, stop DPSing and top off everyone just in case.

2. The priority list for healing is: Healer>Tank>DPS. If tank dies, you can raise him and he'll keep aggro even if some DPS dies in the process. If you die, it's most likely a wipe, so prioritize urself over everyone else.

3. If you know the incoming damage and you can handle it, do DPS, but never people drop below 50-70%, because if they fail a mechanic or step on an AoE they are going to die. If unsure about incoming damage, check point 1.

Optimization of DPS and heals comes with experience, so just keep playing, watch guides, ask better players and limit test yourself.

Everyone who plays healer has missclicked and wiped the party at some point in their career, that's fine as long as it doesn't happen often, after that you have to learn how to avoid getting to the point where 1 missed heal makes you wipe.

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Originally Posted by Marc-Vigar

Please don't become one of those healers that let tanks drop to 10% because they are DPSing, being constantly in the edge of death is bad, specially for the tank's heart. As with everything in life, balance is the key.

I recommend that you follow this priority list:

1. Safety over DPS, always. If you are unsure about the incoming damage from a mechanic or a pull, stop DPSing and top off everyone just in case.

2. The priority list for healing is: Healer>Tank>DPS. If tank dies, you can raise him and he'll keep aggro even if some DPS dies in the process. If you die, it's most likely a wipe, so prioritize urself over everyone else.

3. If you know the incoming damage and you can handle it, do DPS, but never people drop below 50-70%, because if they fail a mechanic or step on an AoE they are going to die. If unsure about incoming damage, check point 1.

Optimization of DPS and heals comes with experience, so just keep playing, watch guides, ask better players and limit test yourself.

Everyone who plays healer has missclicked and wiped the party at some point in their career, that's fine as long as it doesn't happen often, after that you have to learn how to avoid getting to the point where 1 missed heal makes you wipe.

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I 1million agree with you please call on me if you dont wanna be at 10% hehehe.

You’ve identified & learnt your mistakes + you owned it. Congratulation! That is also part of the learning process. Next time you will do better & well prepared.

Like people said: $h!t happens. It’s not the end of the world. Even veterans can still slip off from time to time. If you ever seen one of those super-healer that seemed to handle everything without breaking a sweat, remember that at some point, they’ve also made that same mistake as you do now. They worked past it & they become better at juggling their responsibilities.

We won’t learn to be better unless we test our limits, reasonably that is :)

It’s all about experience after some time you see how much the individual tank takes dmg wise with and without cd. Also every tank being different (some use all tools they have, some do not and some don’t use any) makes it also challenging and fun.

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Originally Posted by Zenai10

the argument was basicly, im dpsing too much and that got the tank killed, while I think if I hit him with that cure 2 he would have been fine. The result was me not dpsing for the rest of the dungeon. Is it my fault due to too much dps or missing the cure 2 cast. Should I not be letting them get basicly 1 failed cure away from death? i've usually been healing around half-40% hp as long as i know they wont die during my cast due to high damage.

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It is your fault due to missing the Cure 2 cast. Letting the tank get low on hp is fine if and only if you are sure you can get them up to full again quickly enough. If you aren't 100% sure of that, you should try cast your heals a bit earlier.
Keeping the tank alive has higher priority than doing dps. Doing dps as a healer is great, but only when you don't need to heal.

I've found that staying within 50% HP is best for everyone's sake. Below that and you start edging towards "this next hit could destroy the tank" territory. Later on you'll get access to insta-cures so it's not as big a deal to toe that line, but sub-60 content it's best to play it safe. DPS as much as you want but top the tank up if they hit sub 50% and youll be fine.

You know, the difference between a good tank vs a good healer is that a good healer has to dps and heal the party, but gets blamed just as equally when they have to cover up for the tank & team's failures anyway. Honestly, don't let it bother you - deaths in this game is inconsequential. You don't lose EXP from dying or wiping. Just treat it as healer learning pains because to be a better healer to deal with all sorts of scenarios, you have to inevitably run into these situations more often. Practicing for this now is better than never encountering them and then actually be put in a situation where you wiped them because you panicked.

It sounds like you already planned out your heals well enough, and the mistarget is just an accident. It isn't the first time that happened to a healer, nor will it be the last. And you know what? Some mechanics at the high end level at Min ILV (when content is new) are just that difficult where you only have one attempt to heal the tank and survive at a very high / full HP scenario, but the tank dies if you accidentally targeted the wrong player from the following auto attack. So no, it's not bad to DPS and end up in that situation where accidentally targeting the wrong person with Cure II ends up killing them. You already planned it out where if the Cure II hit, everyone would've been fine. You found where your baseline healing is and pushed it to the highest extent possible for yourself.

Having the situational awareness to catch an honest mistake is better than not understanding where your baseline heal is and being afraid to DPS since it shows you can plan out the fight mechanics ahead of time rather than just panic heal when someone starts getting low.

The exact moment where people heal is really dependent on how comfortable they feel with healing. Generally, in parties with random players, I dial down the DPS a bit and keep them at above a higher HP threshold because I don't know what to expect from players. They have some leeway in case they take damage from avoidable mechanics. While it's your job to manage the party's HP, the tank is also responsible for making sure he lowers damage as consistently as possible. A tank has to rotate his mitigations well so he doesn't take additional damage as any extra damage he's putting to himself means additional mistakes the healer has to heal.

If you feel guilty about people dying from your mistake, you can move your healing baseline up a bit more so you and the other party members have a bit of leeway before you heal.

I do want to point out though - sometimes incoming damage that exceeds your expectations and suddenly goes beyond your baseline isn't your mistake. Most tanks don't play flawlessly. At lower levels, people rarely mitigate at all since they don't understand how they work. Managing damage is a group effort after all and while healers play a large role in it, they don't play the whole role.

For excess damage that no one bothered to avoid/reduce? A healer could very well say 'you're in charge of taking care of yourself, if you die to an avoidable mechanic, that's also on you. Don't step in bad, I'm can't adjust to stupid.' because a healer's job is to ensure the party doesn't die to unavoidable damage.

Damage that could've been mitigated or avoided? That's other players eating into your DPS by forcing you to heal more because of their mistake. Some healers can be babysitters, but sometimes it's better for them to die and get raised later if it forces them to realize they can't get away with a healer adjusting to their mistake.

You never DPS "too much".
You either learn the healing experience or something else happen that's not on you/brain fart mistake.

And if the tank dies, that's not the end of the world.
People put too much pressure on their healer for nothing lol. do your thing and improve.

Also other than tanks cause again too in terms of dps, if a dps has the nerves to throw blows at you about tank death or the dps like sams or blms whos too lazy and eat oranges and ask why they got no regen or burst heal yet you see ur medic 2 hits everyone else letting em kiss the floor for greed and ignorance orange isnt your fault see it all depends on situation really some do deserve floor time outs. then ask why did everyone else got my regen then? :D My fav is res someone and instead they wait for boss to do w.e they to do they res and die again..trancent people ahem. Maybe i already ed tank or someone else.

You're just learning, and figuring out the proper balance of healing and DPS takes time. If anything this sounds like completely ordinary growing pains. The fact that you're concerned about it at all already shows you're better than a lot of players about this sort of thing ha ha. If you're concerned about it feel free to keep the Tank a bit higher than "one hit until death". There's always going to be some unexpected damage, so it's not terrible to have a bit more breathing room for those times when the Tank mis-clicks their mitigation or lags their way into an orange circle. 50% is a decent baseline, although you can even go higher than that if you feel comfortable.

It's also worth noting that at higher levels you'll have a lot more healing tools, many of them OGCDs. Between regens, big name heals like Benediction, and other tools it'll become increasingly trivial to keep the tank healthy without lowering your DPS too much. You mentioned Brayflox Longstop, which is a pretty early dungeon all things considered. Increasingly you'll probably have less to worry about. On a related note, make sure to use your oGCD heals as much as you can. They'll be your bread and butter soon enough.

Either way I hope you're enjoying the plot and the game!

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Also other than tanks cause again too in terms of dps, if a dps has the nerves to throw blows at you about tank death or the dps like sams or blms whos too lazy and eat oranges and ask why they got no regen or burst heal yet you see ur medic 2 hits everyone else letting em kiss the floor for greed and ignorance orange isnt your fault see it all depends on situation really some do deserve floor time outs. then ask why did everyone else got my regen then? :D My fav is res someone and instead they wait for boss to do w.e they to do they res and die again..trancent people ahem. Maybe i already ed tank or someone else.

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I sometimes wonder how DPS players think tbh. Today I did a Keeper of the lake run, sprout mch pulls the boss while our tank is in a cutscene, me and the smn wait outside, the mch stays in the boss room and fights alone for like 15-20sec. Then the tank gets ready, teleports in, we follow, I healed the mch once with lustrate but then they ate two AoE and died and then I decided to keep them on the floor till the boss was dead. I still got 3x comms from that run though, and it's not like the mch didn't know that I can rezz them, I did it multiple times on the previous boss.

To the OP:

The best way to learn how much DPS you can deal is by letting tanks die. When I was new I noticed that some tanks die faster and others barely need any healing and then I learned about tank cds and stuff like invulnerability. Tanks are also responsible for keeping themselves alive. You are doing them a favor when you remind them that. They might start looking for ways to keep themselves alive when they start dying.

Feel like popping into here to mention something most important!

Low level healing kinda just stinks and is so so different from higher level healing I would not worry too much. Balancing damage and healing becomes significantly easier when you have access to multiple ogcd or instant cast healing buttons.

Also remember the blasphemous cure 1/benefic 1/physick exist. I have killed others at lower levels because my mind recoils at notion of using cure 1 buuuut, if cure 1 would cast in time to save someone then cure 1. Sooo for this situation "oops I cure 2'ed myself and tank is going to parish" you miiight save them with one quick cure 1 into a cure 2. See, low level healing is most odd.

I think its fine. You're gonna die and have people die plenty of times when you join a learning party. Mistakes happen. Its no big deal, especially in some low level dungeon. Better to learn how to dps and heal for as little as possible then to coddle your tank.

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Originally Posted by Zenai10

Now that i've moved on from this argument I'd like to get some healers advice on if I was doing too much dps and learn from it. But first, this is 100% my fault the tank died thats not the argument. Was first time in Brayflox's Longstop, did a big pull that I caught up too after watching the cutscene. Was going okay but I wasn't really prepared for how much damage was being taken, i've basicly been green dps up to this point. Whatever about the pull, I did some rocks, did some cure 2s was going okay, was dropping to 300-500 probably a bit too low in hindsight. The main cause of the argument was, I was casting stone, finished stone, then cast cure 2, but accidentally cast it on myself rather than the tank. The tank proceded to die during the next cast. I believe swiftcast was on cd.

the argument was basicly, im dpsing too much and that got the tank killed, while I think if I hit him with that cure 2 he would have been fine. The result was me not dpsing for the rest of the dungeon. Is it my fault due to too much dps or missing the cure 2 cast. Should I not be letting them get basicly 1 failed cure away from death? i've usually been healing around half-40% hp as long as i know they wont die during my cast due to high damage.

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if i had a dollar for every time i mis-targeted a vital heal, and it ended up causing a death, it would cover about half my sub. it's a thing that happens in an MMO, especially once you start fast swapping targets trying to drop a quick OGCD heal then go right back to DPSing