What if instead of a normal cash-shop, you have to "unlock" certain options?

I'm almost hesitant to suggest this, because I can see where such a suggestion could also be used for evil. But hear me out...

What is, instead of just putting things up on the cash-shop -- which essentially robs it of any "cool factor", other than being whatever the item itself is -- you instead had to "unlock" cash-shop options?

Here's an example:

Right now, each expansion's Trials introduce a series of mounts (horses, lanners, wolves, dragons). Collecting them all gives you a sort of "super-mount". Well, what if collecting all of THOSE mounts, unlocked a new item in the cash-shop? Something you could ONLY get for having gotten all those items, but still in support of the cash-shop.

Now, obviously the knee-jerk reaction is "well, why wouldn't you just make that an actual reward?". But I view it more as an alternative to "just another thing tossed on the cash-shop".

Here's another example; if you clear Ultimate Coils, Ultima Weapon, or Alexander -- what if that unlocked the option to purchase a mount based on that content? Like a "Bahamut clone" or something?

That way, cool stuff doesn't feel "wasted" as a cash-shop reward. Because honestly, that new mech-robot thing? Maybe that WOULD'VE been cool, but because it's just a cash-shop mount, it has no "meaning", there's no weight or status to having it.

Just a thought. As a HUGE fan of Odin, even though I bought Sleipnir, there's still a part of me that hates using it, because I know it's "just a cash-shop mount". But if it was, say, tied behind an "Unreal" version of Odin? Then I'd be pretty stoked about it!

I just don't get why things has to have a "cool factor" to be worth it.
Just enjoy it for what it is.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

I just don't get why things has to have a "cool factor" to be worth it.
Just enjoy it for what it is.

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Well, it's kind of a multi-faceted issue. The Devs want to make something that will sell. Players want mounts to "show off". So what could happen (and does in most games) is the Devs pour more effort and detail into cash-shop mounts than those attainable in-game.

For players who put a lot of effort into the game, that can wind up undermining their commitment because A) they're putting effort into things that feel less cool than cash-shop items, and B) can cause them to "look down on" cash-shop items (or even cause resentment towards players who buy them, seeing it as "enabling" more cash-shop rewards), and that can backfire making those willing to spend money, feel less inclined to (why spend money on a mount, that people are going to instantly think "they just paid money for that").

My thinking is, by "unlocking" those options, it change the approach a bit.

Like, let's say someone who cleared Ultimate Coils purchased a "Bahamut" mount. Well, sure it costs money, but instead of saying "that just means has money", I'll be thinking "Oh snap, he cleared Ultimate Coils!".

Like I said, this could absolutely be used in an evil way (like some dev deciding "Okay, take that cool new mount that WAS going to be a rare-drop from this EX trial, now we'll make it an "unlock"). I've just never seen anyone take that approach, and was kind of curious what you guys would think about something like that.

This would be worse IMHO. Have to do something in a game to earn the right to purchase something off a cash shop? That makes no sense. If you are going to earn something in the game you get it in the game. You don't earn something in the game so then you can unlock something special on the cash shop to spend money on it. The blowback on that from the community would be huge - and rightly so.

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Originally Posted by Terin

Like I said, this could absolutely be used in an evil way (like some dev deciding "Okay, take that cool new mount that WAS going to be a rare-drop from this EX trial, now we'll make it an "unlock"). I've just never seen anyone take that approach, and was kind of curious what you guys would think about something like that.

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I think it would be a terrible idea in all aspects. Harder to get access to the ship mounts - fewer people who will buy them, and thus less money to the devs.
As to the "cool factor" - if you think you will impress anyone by having some hard-to-get mount, you need think again. Vast majority of players will not know where you got it from, and won't be even slightly impressed if they did know.

If you have to grind in the game for an item you should get the item at the end in-game as well. Setting up a paywall infront of your final goal doesn't make the item special, it'd just be SE demanding even more money from you above and beyond your subscription fee for your efforts. It doesn't make it a "status symbol".

You see the drama currently engulfing GD over a store? Multiply that by 100 and that would be the result of this. Personally, I don't agree with this idea anyway. Would be wasted resources.

So you want to hide the store behind a grind? So a grindwall AND a paywall? No thanks. This is silly idea because we already have the store anyway.

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Originally Posted by Arillyn

This would be worse IMHO. Have to do something in a game to earn the right to purchase something off a cash shop? That makes no sense. If you are going to earn something in the game you get it in the game. You don't earn something in the game so then you can unlock something special on the cash shop to spend money on it. The blowback on that from the community would be huge - and rightly so.

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Working your butt off in-game.... to have the opportunity to give SE money...?

What if the cash shop is actually fine?

Cosmetics for the people who want to drop some $$, revenue stream for the game—makes sense to me.

I clicked on this thinking they were going to talk about something like say... requiring a player to do a bunch of stuff in game so ppl cant just make an alt account then pop a level skip potion on it to raise their daily posting allowance in order to troll the forum... >.>

So you have to grind for the item then pay for it? LMAOOOOOOOOOO

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Originally Posted by Terin

I'm almost hesitant to suggest this, because I can see where such a suggestion could also be used for evil. But hear me out...

What is, instead of just putting things up on the cash-shop -- which essentially robs it of any "cool factor", other than being whatever the item itself is -- you instead had to "unlock" cash-shop options?

Here's an example:

Right now, each expansion's Trials introduce a series of mounts (horses, lanners, wolves, dragons). Collecting them all gives you a sort of "super-mount". Well, what if collecting all of THOSE mounts, unlocked a new item in the cash-shop? Something you could ONLY get for having gotten all those items, but still in support of the cash-shop.

Now, obviously the knee-jerk reaction is "well, why wouldn't you just make that an actual reward?". But I view it more as an alternative to "just another thing tossed on the cash-shop".

Here's another example; if you clear Ultimate Coils, Ultima Weapon, or Alexander -- what if that unlocked the option to purchase a mount based on that content? Like a "Bahamut clone" or something?

That way, cool stuff doesn't feel "wasted" as a cash-shop reward. Because honestly, that new mech-robot thing? Maybe that WOULD'VE been cool, but because it's just a cash-shop mount, it has no "meaning", there's no weight or status to having it.

Just a thought. As a HUGE fan of Odin, even though I bought Sleipnir, there's still a part of me that hates using it, because I know it's "just a cash-shop mount". But if it was, say, tied behind an "Unreal" version of Odin? Then I'd be pretty stoked about it!

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Are you friends with Newegg or something?

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Originally Posted by Terin

That way, cool stuff doesn't feel "wasted" as a cash-shop reward. Because honestly, that new mech-robot thing? Maybe that WOULD'VE been cool, but because it's just a cash-shop mount, it has no "meaning", there's no weight or status to having it.

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There is little to no "status" to having anything in FF14, especially mounts since they are all functionally identical.

Nooo! pls god, no, noooooo!!! i dont like the idea of "wow achiv" 2.0! dont lock thing off players! dont bring wow motives of failure to 14! this is ff14 not wow, genchin impact..."brilliant" ideas that works there, dont suceed here.

check on marvel avengers game?!

So... we now are really seeing the third sign within the of "Five Stages of Grief" based on the Cash Shop?

Denial / Isolation, Anger, Bargaining (this thread puts us here now), Depression, and finally Acceptance.

Hmm. Gonna get interesting here real soon I take it.

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Originally Posted by Terin

Just a thought. As a HUGE fan of Odin, even though I bought Sleipnir, there's still a part of me that hates using it, because I know it's "just a cash-shop mount". But if it was, say, tied behind an "Unreal" version of Odin? Then I'd be pretty stoked about it!

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And would you be more "stoked" about paying $30 for your mount unlocked by defeating Odin than to simply receive it as a reward for defeating Odin?

Achievement awards should come from achievements. The cash shop is for cute fluff that doesn't prove anything except your ability to spend money on it.

To be fair, WoW didn't really start the trend of optional purchases in MMO's. They've been present to a much deeper degree in Eastern MMO's for quite some time now. Furthermore, there's a lot of single player JPRG's with bucket loads of optional purchases tied to them.

Personally I'm only bothered by the items that are only available on a temporary basis - and even there, FFXIV isn't nearly as jarring in that department as ESO is.

Why should they put work into a store mount that only a few people would be able to buy instead of all people?

This is a none issue, and this idea is a terrible one. Things are fine as they are, why you might ask? The cash shop isn't actually that egregious compared to other games, and doesn't do the same shit other games do. Cruise Chasers controversial nature is a loud minority only, something proven by polls a few creators have done on the subject already where around 80% of voters said they didn't particularly care about the store as long as it wasn't pay to win, which FF14's isn't. Above and beyond this fact though, FF14's store is fine for a few different reasons.

- The Store Mounts and Glamours don't overshadow the in game mounts and glamours, a majority of the really good looking sets are actually in game.
- The Store is more often used to allow people to get a hold of event items they might have missed out on, amazing for new players
- A brand new Oceanic Data centre proves the money FF14 makes is being invested back into it, most MMO's after 5 - 10 years start removing servers due to maintenance cost, FF14 is ADDING, meaning they can afford the installation and maintenance
- Similarly, the fact we got a massive new infrastructure for servers in the last year is another huge bit of proof the money is filtered back into the game, this is another expensive project with long term maintenance costs.

FF14 is a game that makes me want to waste my time and a game that makes me want to spend money on it and support it. The minority seem to think we're hitting a slippery slope with the cruise chaser, and are generally fear mongering, but guess what? My investment in 14 continues for as long as 14 shows it is the better option, if in game items DO start getting over shadowed by the store items, if the money DOES visibly stop being invested into the game, if anything the fear mongers are warning about actually happens, I will drop FF14 faster than the flash chasing after himself in the speed force.

It would be nice if some of the more sought after cash shop items found a place in limited currency in game stores. Like the Silver/Gold chocobo feathers you get from recruit a friend. There's already Twintania in there, I think Cruise Chaser would have fit in there perfectly, as an additional way to obtain it, not the only way, but they don't update that anymore, like a lot of redundant systems.

I get what your saying, but the cash store’s purpose is to generate cash.


For me, if I’m going to put in game effort just to end with a paywall, I’d be pissed.

Alternatively, I wouldn’t be happy if Cruise Chaser came out and required me to clear..say.. Alexander Savage.

Either I’m gonna bust butt to get it in game, or pay for something; not both.


Personally I like how they did the 4 seater mount- they had a limited event for the car, a permanent harder option in Eden Savage and a real money chocobo carriage. All same functionally, just different means to get.

Seriously? No. Stop. We have subcription fees. It's enough.

The cash shop? Things should be account wide and absolutly NOTHING worth to be "locked". It's not acceptable.

Current cash-shop already goes too far with seasonal event items.

To be fair, many games have something a bit like this, usually called a 'battle pass' and while sometimes it's a rip off, sometimes it's actually good value.
For example, a completely different type of game, but Dead By Daylight has 'The Rift' which has a premium version you can buy for 1000 Auric Cells (cash shop currency, about $10). You can upgrade to premium at any time even when you've already completed it, and if you complete the rift, you will end up gaining back 1000 Auric Cells in total, plus about $30 worth of cosmetics. If you play enough, it pays for itself and much more.

A similar implementation in FFXIV might be something like... a premium Mogtome event.
You get to purchase access to the premium Mogtome store for $10, which has things like Cruise Chaser for 400 tomes, or a Fantasia for 200 tomes. So you could grind out your 600 tomes first, then purchase premium, and get a $30 mount and a $10 Fantasia for just $10 in total.

I'm not suggesting they actually do this, because I'm not confident they'd actually price things in such a way that it was actually a substantial saving, but it's an example of how it could work out. Basically, it's not a totally bad idea, but... it's unlikely to be implemented in a way that's actually good.

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Originally Posted by Terin

I'm almost hesitant to suggest this, because I can see where such a suggestion could also be used for evil. But hear me out...

What is, instead of just putting things up on the cash-shop -- which essentially robs it of any "cool factor", other than being whatever the item itself is -- you instead had to "unlock" cash-shop options?

Here's an example:

Right now, each expansion's Trials introduce a series of mounts (horses, lanners, wolves, dragons). Collecting them all gives you a sort of "super-mount". Well, what if collecting all of THOSE mounts, unlocked a new item in the cash-shop? Something you could ONLY get for having gotten all those items, but still in support of the cash-shop.

Now, obviously the knee-jerk reaction is "well, why wouldn't you just make that an actual reward?". But I view it more as an alternative to "just another thing tossed on the cash-shop".

Here's another example; if you clear Ultimate Coils, Ultima Weapon, or Alexander -- what if that unlocked the option to purchase a mount based on that content? Like a "Bahamut clone" or something?

That way, cool stuff doesn't feel "wasted" as a cash-shop reward. Because honestly, that new mech-robot thing? Maybe that WOULD'VE been cool, but because it's just a cash-shop mount, it has no "meaning", there's no weight or status to having it.

Just a thought. As a HUGE fan of Odin, even though I bought Sleipnir, there's still a part of me that hates using it, because I know it's "just a cash-shop mount". But if it was, say, tied behind an "Unreal" version of Odin? Then I'd be pretty stoked about it!

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Why force players to unlock access to cash shop items through grindy achievements when they can sell to all players and make even more money instead?

It's not going to happen.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

There is little to no "status" to having anything in FF14, especially mounts since they are all functionally identical.

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Okay, that is DEFINITELY not true. In MMO's, there are TONS of items with "status". The "Legacy" items are a huge status symbol -- well, when you can actually see or notice them (the Legacy Chocobo is admittedly a little weak, I have to look at its beak to even notice). But the new Landerwaffe mount? Sure, it helps that the mount is ALSO super sick, but that I would consider to be a status symbol. Or the weapon glams you get from the Ultimate-mode raids.

Even if my idea sucks -- and it's pretty clear nobody here likes it (which is totally cool) -- I think MMO's DO and SHOULD have "status" rewards. It's just kind of a moving goal-post, since things that are difficult to get now, might not be later (or available in cash-shop, as most holiday items are).

I kinda like the cash shop the way it is. it isnt in my face in the game. there is not a link to it in the game. even the Official Sites director IN THE GAME doesnt list the cash shop. Really not sure why people fixate on it.

Do I check the shop if the launcher says they have new things, sure, sometimes I like a look or an item.

I have more outfits, mounts and minions FROM IN THE GAME that I will never use to feel like I am forced to pay money for something. If you dont have the real life cash.. dont spend it. If you dont like the look, dont buy it. but the incessant whining and complaining about something they could remove tomorrow and have virtually zero effect on how you journey through the game is amazing.

No.

/10char.

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Originally Posted by Terin

Okay, that is DEFINITELY not true. In MMO's, there are TONS of items with "status".

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I'm not discussing MMOs in general, only FF14.

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Originally Posted by Terin

The "Legacy" items are a huge status symbol -- well, when you can actually see or notice them (the Legacy Chocobo is admittedly a little weak, I have to look at its beak to even notice). But the new Landerwaffe mount? Sure, it helps that the mount is ALSO super sick, but that I would consider to be a status symbol. Or the weapon glams you get from the Ultimate-mode raids.

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I said FF14 has "little to no status symbols," not literally none. If there are a few items you think signal status power to you.

At risk of splitting hairs over every example, personally, I don't think any of the examples you listed confer any kind of status.

I don't see "I played in 1.0" as a signal of player achievement or excellence.

I have the Landerwaffe mount. I don't see it as a status symbol. The mount is more or less locked behind multiple grind walls.

And as for the ultimate clears, they may have been a cool status symbol at one time, but considering how rampant Ultimate clear selling has gotten, on top of the fact that better food, better potions, and better gear have done MUCH to dull the difficulty of those raids.
It's super hard for me to even try to care about a rando's title/weapon.

If you do that's fine. But it also doesn't refute the point that for status symbols FF14 has little to none.

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Originally Posted by Terin

Even if my idea sucks -- and it's pretty clear nobody here likes it (which is totally cool) -- I think MMO's DO and SHOULD have "status" rewards.

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Should it?
Possibly.
But that's not what I was addressing, and that argument is pretty tangential to the topic.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

I kinda like the cash shop the way it is. it isnt in my face in the game. there is not a link to it in the game. even the Official Sites director IN THE GAME doesnt list the cash shop. Really not sure why people fixate on it.

Do I check the shop if the launcher says they have new things, sure, sometimes I like a look or an item.

I have more outfits, mounts and minions FROM IN THE GAME that I will never use to feel like I am forced to pay money for something. If you dont have the real life cash.. dont spend it. If you dont like the look, dont buy it. but the incessant whining and complaining about something they could remove tomorrow and have virtually zero effect on how you journey through the game is amazing.

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agreed. i dont like all windowns of cash shop popping up inside others MMO too.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

I kinda like the cash shop the way it is. it isnt in my face in the game. there is not a link to it in the game. even the Official Sites director IN THE GAME doesnt list the cash shop. Really not sure why people fixate on it.

Do I check the shop if the launcher says they have new things, sure, sometimes I like a look or an item.

I have more outfits, mounts and minions FROM IN THE GAME that I will never use to feel like I am forced to pay money for something. If you dont have the real life cash.. dont spend it. If you dont like the look, dont buy it. but the incessant whining and complaining about something they could remove tomorrow and have virtually zero effect on how you journey through the game is amazing.

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"but the incessant whining and complaining about something they could remove tomorrow and have virtually zero effect on how you journey through the game is amazing."

Lets create new jobs and place them on the cash shop. I highly doubt you would be singing the same tune.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Why force players to unlock access to cash shop items through grindy achievements when they can sell to all players and make even more money instead?

It's not going to happen.

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its called Gacha games, pretty popular in cellphones but, yes, not going to happen.

Marvel avengers tried something simillar....and faild.

Would defeat the purpose, Cash shop is mostly there to appeal to people that want to look fancy without earning it
If you had to earn it and then pay for it too, yikes... i hope that never becomes a model

Having to pay for a cash shop item after you've done something to earn it would be a bit like an athlete winning a race and then having to buy their medal instead of just being presented with it.

Yeah no thanks. I agree cash shop mounts are lame because they don't show any achievement, but I don't want my achievement menu full of "please insert $20 for this award".