A new interview with Oda-san has dropped!
There's a lot of cool stuff in here, but two strike me as pretty big.
Thordan (50%) Cleared Up!
I was happy to hold a "jury is out, let's just wait on it" bulwark when it came to Thordan and Ward lore, especially considering Oda-san declined to speak about it yet, at the time.
Early Thordan lore stated that he was summoned last using rites perfected on the Heavens' Ward and that the Ward were selected based on skill because Thordan could always temper them if they got out of line. Later lore stated that Thordan was summoned first and the Ward were "blessed" extension of his primal form. It seemed probable the latter was canon, despite Encyclopaedia Eorzea one using the former explanation for the summoning, as once you kill Thordan, the others just die, too. But that should have made the Ward tempered, not just under the threat of it, right?
It turns out, yes! Thordan VII apparently summoned King Thordan himself and tempered them at their first council meeting, deliberately keeping them "rare" temepred instead of "well-done" tempered. (With the threat being now, I guess, to temper them more, lol.)
Now if they'd just tell me whether Thordan had the Echo... Nabriales seemed to suggest (in some languages) the Echo was required to incarnate summon, which we know isn't True today but was it "true" then? If so, it would sure make sense of the time Elidibus gave a random Sahagin the Echo at the same time Nabriales was creating Shiva, allegedly (but knowing history, perhaps not) the first merging of a deiform spirit and a mortal. That makes 2.1 to 2.5 look like a coherent plan coming together in response to the WOL's unexpected victory. And we see Elidibus with Lahabrea behind the throne in one scene. But whether Thordan had the Echo changes his character. Did he temper himself a la Yotsuyu, or was he truly that self-deluded? Inquiring minds want to know!
The Eye Tattoo
During early ARR, we saw the appearance of a second tattoo that resembled the Sharlayan tat but mirrored and with an eye. I speculated at the time that perhaps it was a combination of the Archon mark and the eye for the Echo, symbolizing the merging of Scions of the Seventh Dawn and the Path of the Twelve to make a "Scion brand."
Two weeks later I joked with Koji at E3, "I'm right, right!?" Did I figure it out!? and he made fun of me (in a nice way, I swear) because, no, I was not, the similarity between the symbols was not intentional. I took this to mean the "Archon" and "Scion" brands were coincidentally similar because...idk, maybe they were both designed by Sharlayan-educated people. Or maybe they were both designed by the same dev. team member. But because of that I never updated the article, I just left it as a half-informative/half-theorywork shite-post with a Zodiark joke at the end.
That left the question of why G'raha (and later Moenbryda) had one, but my guess at the time was that, seeing as G'raha was SUPER into labels and symbols, to the degree that he immediately formed a new club to investigate Crystal Tower, maybe he just decided "sure, I, too, am for Eorzea's salvation" and slapped that on IMMEDIATELY after he recognized that was a thing, while Moenbryda was always close with them and later came to pitch in. They were interfering in history with us for the salvation of Eorzea so it didn't feel weird.
But it also left the huge question of: Why didn't Minfilia have one? (In a place we could see, anyway...)
It looks like as of 2021... it's not the Scion brand at all. It's the "formal" version of the Sharlayan Archon logo, and we've been seeing the informal version the entire time. Some people get both tattooed on them, some don't. (Why they do it in different ink, I have no gods-damned idea. Why a library would have the informal version on the wall, I have no gods-damned idea.)
So now I'm spooked. I've mis-heard things before, I've mis-read things before, they've mis-stated things before, things have been retconned before; I have no idea which this is. Arguably it doesn't matter because G'raha's book here seems to set that one in stone. (Thanks, @Arthaena!) So if this isn't a recent retcon and nobody misspoke in 2015, I want own up to that mistake. I don't like accidentally spurring misinformation.
But give that article a read and support our most benevolent lore master, Banri Oda-san!
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Revelations from 4gamer
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08-11-2021, 11:23 PMAnonymooseRevelations from 4gamer
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08-12-2021, 02:20 AMFenral
You are forgiven.
Thordan:
I distinctly remember Ysayle's gimmick being that she could maintain her own will while summoning Shiva, thanks to the Echo. What we learned about that summoning from Hraesvelgr, though, was that the being she created was simply her own idea of Shiva, and the soul of the woman herself had nothing to do with it. Supposing you were a religious figurehead dictating the interpretation of holy texts, you could preach your interpretations to the people and use them to accumulate "belief" in such a way that the being you ultimately sought to invoke was aligned exactly to your own ideology. The resulting Thordan would thus be Thordan's idealized Thordan who agreed with him 100%. He'd probably still be tempered without the Echo, but to his own will, at worst going from dogmatic prick to hyper-dogmatic prick, which Lahabrea probably didn't mind.
But now that we know that awakening memories of the Final Days is all it takes to become immune to tempering, it's possible Lahabrea had a Final Days snowglobe or something and left it on Thordan's desk, just in case. -
08-12-2021, 02:52 AMWhiteArchmage
Hoooo boy...
So, Tactics Ogre: LUCT already got referenced in HW. I remember the first thread I created in here was specifically about the Valerian gear in Neverreap; but I didn't catch specific plot points that would remind me of TO, which was more based around a sucession war but without an actual heir.Quote:
Do you have any references or anything that inspires you when writing? Do you read up on literature like the Bible, the classics, or myths?
Oda:
Many things influenced me, too many to narrow down. When writing the main story of “Heavensward”, for example, I looked into how the fantasy series “A Song of Ice and Fire” and the simulation RPG “Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together” were created. The former apparently referenced the Wars of the Roses, and the latter drew upon historical ethnic conflicts like the Yugoslav Wars for its themes. The methodology of how these stories were created helped me write “Heavensward”. I also read through the Bible back when I was still in school, and during my university years, I studied philosophy and ideology, which were my interests at the time. I never thought I would be making games, let alone writing scenarios, but I guess you never know what will come in handy!
That said, the tribal conflicts in Valeria DO kind of follow the Ishgard/Dravania conflicts, but ofc VERY looselyuntil halfway through the 2nd act
For added Funny Points: Final Fantasy Tactics is also based on the War of the Roses; I had to step in once in a Geek page because people were mudslinging about who ripped off whom and I had to, like... "they're based on the same historical event, they BOTH ripped off HISTORY"
That said, now I AM further hoping for an eventual third part of the Ivalice storyline, even if Matsuno is (sadly) out of the picture. Because this dev team has proven time and time again that they get his stories and respect him as a writer. -
08-12-2021, 05:16 AMAnonymoose"He'd be the same either way, so no comment." is the expected answer, yes, lol. Though then I'd like to move my question sideways. If Yotsuyu could have done the same, clap on/clap off primal power suit, ... what really killed Louisoix if not being stuffed with primal power until his face cracked open without the aetherial wellspring-deeping effects of the Echo? You know, just to have the metaphysics on paper, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenral
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08-12-2021, 05:05 PMVyrerusUhm, we did!Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
Once he became enthralled to Bahamut and became the Phoenix, he reconstituted as a thrall. When we fight him as Phoenix in Turn 12, he uses up the entirety of the powers of rebirth as Bahamut demands of him, in order to try and kill us. He couldn't draw aether from the surroundings to prolong the conflict or rebirth, because that's all being directed into Bahamut, and as he was a slave to Bahamut, Bahamut is not sharing his smoothie!
This is also the, I wanna say, second time Primals are shown to do a hierarchy thing? Though she was unsuccessful, 2.0 Garuda had the captured Kobolds and Amal'jaa summon Titan and Ifrit, who she then demanded their aether and power from, believing herself superior. She never got the follow through, because Ultima Weapon, but I don't think she would have had that gambit in place if it wasn't something Primals do... enslave/eat other Primals.
I guess it's important to note that though his face was already cracking from the incredible strain placed upon his mortal figure, which hadn't yet given way to a Primal entity(ala cutscene). It was the ferocity inherent in combating Bahamut that cracked his face. Louisoix did not die when he liquified and dispersed. It was then that his mortal will faded with his dying prayers, and he took on the form of Phoenix (Jean Grey is that you?!). This resulted in resurrection. Bahamut snatched him at this moment.
I think that Yotsuyu's Primal form in Tsukuyomi is messier. She became Tsukuyomi through that relic mirror, and the transformation fed on the aether of the crystals Asahi brought, but it also required that she feel suffering in order for her to keep the deiform entity shell in play. We still don't know exactly how Kami Primal summonings really differ from Eorzean and other Primal summonings, and we actually haven't seen a Far Eastern Primal temper somebody. Of the two that we have seen, they had drastically different summonings. Susano was summoned upon completion of a relic set from completely disembodied Kami at the time, whereas Yotsuyu's required the mirror and her entire persona. There's mention of instructing her in a ritual, I think, but from what was shown, she merely raised the mirror and channeled the aether. Her primal form enhanced all of her clothing and her smoking pipe and gun. She went on during the fight to create two chokutos, which she used as both swords and staves to channel and direct her attacks. -
08-12-2021, 09:02 PMTensaihimeMy money’s on super-self-deluded, and then tempered anyhow, like Fenral said. The absolute ruler of both church and state, who thought he was going to put down some Ascians after he finished using what they showed him to be the one to end 1000 years of holy war.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
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08-13-2021, 12:26 AMRicaRuin
I kinda feel bad for parading Demi-Bahamut around Paghlt'an. But hey, my hunch of why Summoners can summon Phoenix was correct!
Also, interesting to read that Garlemald only now develops printing presses, with how advanced their military is, the reverse engineered Allagan stuff - and especially after the Benchmark with the modern highway and the cars. -
08-13-2021, 02:35 AMAnonymooseAhaha, I know the Warrior of Light ultimately broke the cohesion of his essence and forced it onward to the Lifestream but I mean his normal mortal form. We see his physical frame splitting apart with the power in the CG, and in the voiced scene after he explains that he acquired primal-like power but planned to relinquish it and die before he could become warped into a true primal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
How to view this alongside what happened in other cases is just something I find fun, because this is from the era when the writing team was churning out new ways to summon primals faster than the lore team could invent and reveal consistent rules for how they worked from patch content to patch content. Shinryu actually rhymes quite well with Phoenix, but Ilberd died and then his spirit became the catalyst anyway.
Phoenix was revealed in the same patch series as Nabriales seemed to claim (in some languages) that the Echo was necessary to merge man and god successfully, with Shiva being the first known case of the phenomenon as far as Nabrales was concerned. He was proud he figured it out, and angry we "undid his hard work". So Phoenix actually vibed with that at the time. Louisoix didn't have the Echo, so he was destroyed, or so it seemed to say. But they kept on inventing new primals and new rules, and clearly this is no longer true.
Tsukuyomi seemed designed to help clean up a lot of the oddities preceding her by adding a unique context that tests the rules' boundaries. But some questions remain! -
08-13-2021, 04:00 AMFenral
I slept on it, and was trying to come up with a more eloquent response to that question, but all I could come up with was "Tupsi Did It Again." Loui's intent to self-terminate is rather different from the Shiva and Thordan cases, so it's entirely plausible (to me) that if you summon the primal essence of going out in a blaze of glory, that's probably going to be the end result, sooner or later.
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08-13-2021, 01:46 PMVyrerusBoy howdy, they sure were churning primals out fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
The one I like to think about, and also have to remind myself exists, is Enkidu.
Like, the chicken wasn't mantling it, right? lmao
But either way, Gilgamesh makes his primal, the primal doesn't enslave him, and shares its aether with him! Granted, it was far smaller summoning born off of one person's will to see his friend again... but like damn, check out the implications on that!
Personally, I think Nabriales and his dialogue are getting more and more marred all the time. The price of having mutton chops, I guess! Of course, he was just another Sundered minion, and perhaps he was a recent acquisition and hadn't been given proper training, getting all his knowledge about how things work OTJ.
As far as Tsukuyomi goes... I want an instanced battle against Lunar Tsukuyomi so we can have that ole Moon Moon meme shoved in our faces (again?). -
08-13-2021, 03:33 PMJeanneOrnitier
The thing with Phoenix and corrupted crystals confuses me. I thought corrupted crystals were the result of aether being released where pieces of Dalamud impacted?
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08-14-2021, 07:32 AMAnonymooseAm I a bad loremonger for never even thinking about this one? I always loop back around to, "Hildibrand is only is canon as you want it to be. They know it doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter that it doesn't make sense. It's the rule-breaking comedy bubble every Final Fantasy has to some degree." Maybe I could invent headcanons that might make it work, but then again I have no drive to. Enkidu just is... <broad hand gesture, never finishes thought>Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
Though the in-joke about the duke's precious vase that like 5 people will understand is one of the best parts of this game, hands down.
That's what I thought was explicitly blamed, too, but h*ck, never mind Dalamud, those crystals first showed up with ATOMOS back in 1.0. - remember them over-aspected the aetherytes and left crystals and clusters hanging around?Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier
I'm sure that, if pressed, Oda-san would probably clarify something like ... over-aspected crystals are usually orange, anyway, and some that we've seen before are not directly a result of Phoenix, but were localized disruptions of an aetherial stream ... yet many that we see in the game as part of a large-scale disruption of the realm are what he was referring to, here... lol.
What impressed me is that he said it so convincingly, and so confidently, that I didn't even think to question it and remember Atomos for an entire day. He intended-all-along'd me. Cynical, jaded old ME.
That's why he's our lore god, I guess. -
08-14-2021, 02:39 PMVyrerusWell, no, you're a loveable loremonger! I mean, much like a fishmonger, you can't catch all of the fish in your net/sell of all them at your stall. Some Lore will be left unexplored by even the best loremonger, because they don't necessarily use every type of net...Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
*Musters my best Emperor Palpatine dialogue in the second Death Star throne room impression*
I'm afraid though, Moose, that Hildibrand is quite canonical. You see... the Blue Magic spell #35 is the spell, "Missile." Though it is said to be, ,"A magical imitation of a warmachina technology..." it is only learnable from Enkidu for the Warrior of Light aka Azuro the Second. Blue Magic is canon, because the Whalaqee are canon as is the New World.
Combine this with the fact that after we beat Gilgamesh in the Battle of the Big Keep, he takes on the mantle of Yojimbo in the Far East. This is unknown to us until the Stormblood events leading up to Kugane Ohashi, but it is true, nonetheless. The events of Kugane Castle are canon, are they not, as they exist outside of the comedy bubble entirely. In order for him to be driven there, he has to be beaten in the 2.5 Hildibrand line (though it is true you can unlock Kugane Castle without doing Hildibrand, but time bubble shenanigans).
But wait, there's more!
Consider Inspector Briardien. He is introduced under the auspices of the Hildibrand questline, but he's given his own, very real, splinter cell wherein he recognizes you from the Hildibrand questline. The Scholasticate questline in Ishgard! In the course of this, he makes mention of the Sil'dih sister he's in love with imprisoned at the end of ARR Hildibrand.
Anyway... *waves my hands too for Enkidu* Enkidu is most similar in summoning to Thordan, as I'm taking it, Thordan VII Ye Olde Pope, summoned him, himself, right? I mean, he used the faith of every Ishgardian, and drew the Primal into his own being, so they don't share that aspect... but it would seem that any individual given enough resources can perform a summoning if they know the means. Tsukuyomi also follows this trend(Shiva too), though obviously what sets Enkidu apart is that Gilgamesh summoned her accidentally!
Now that I think about it... Odin is wildly similar to Tsukuyomi as well, given that all that needs happen is someone takes up Zantetsuken. Could it be that one of the weapons Gilgamesh has collected over the years allows him to summon primals by his lonesome, or is he some sort of flamboyant, itinerant ancient unsundered due to always being on the go, mostly via The Rift? We may never know, but I could speculate all day. I'm a speculationmonger! -
08-14-2021, 03:24 PMAnonymooseRebuttalQuote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
Somehow after all these years I'm still fond of the "one-way bubble" interpretation. ("If it happens outside of a Manderville Bubble, it's still true inside of it, but whatever happens inside of it has to be taken with a boulder of Ishgardian licking salt.")Quote:
Gamer Escape: Exactly how canon is the Hildibrand storyline? Godbert is on the real, actual Syndicate, but much of the storyline is clearly exaggerated, if not out-right one-directionally canon. Even the NPCs claim some things make no sense.
KF: And those of us working on those quests might think, but this doesn’t make any sense! Oda-san would like to say that it’s up to the reader how much sense they want to make of it and how they want to look at it.
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08-14-2021, 04:12 PMVyrerusRetortQuote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
There's nothing that happens within the Hildibrand questlines that is truly so remarkably absurd that it could not happen given the rules of the FFXIV world. Point to any portion of Hildibrand, and I will point to another quest outside of Hildibrand and give lie to the idea that we must needs dismiss Hildibrand to some wavering bubble that might sunder the more serious game from its lighthearted side. After all, NPCs also remark in the course of the MSQ that some things beggar belief or that they are in an area that defies comprehension. -
08-15-2021, 12:54 AMWhiteArchmage
Objection!
...I was not given time to procure popcorn...
While there are certainly things in the Hildibrand questline that do raise eyebrows, particularly Godbert pulling what is essentially a crafter LB3. One could strip the more absurd elements and the world-building elements from within wouldn't be out of place in the world of Hydaelin.
Of course, this does fit into the "as canon as you want it to be" aspect. Perhaps even presenting that the events are canon and the story-telling is embellished by the "narrator", who could indeed be Hildibrand. -
08-15-2021, 05:19 AMRyuDragnierActually, I think the Narrator is Nashu. Remember, she's incredibly scatterbrained and the ONLY character to constantly break out of the "credits" for a Hildebrand episode and talk to the player. Something that probably hints to her being incredibly eccentric. If you look at it like that, then a lot of the over the top stuff is unlikely, but the base of it is possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage
Examples, Godbert throwing Hildibrand up to get the ring but missing completely and being thrown out of the coliseum and landing completely elsewhere in Ul'dah is unlikely. However, him being tossed up, missing the ring, and crashing near the audience is very likely, and out of Nashu's vision so she'd think of the insane scenario. Julyan Manderville curing Hildibrand with bad cooking is unlikely. However, her being a skilled Alchemist, which is a different kind of cooking, and then curing him with the horrible tasting concoction, is completely plausible. -
08-15-2021, 06:20 AMWhiteArchmage
That makes more sense. The entire questline is just us playing through Nashu's Fanfiction of Hildibrand's cases.
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08-15-2021, 08:58 AMRyuDragnier
He's still a bumbling fool, but the nonsense is being exaggerated, while the actual serious things are not. An example of this is the Hildibrand HW questline. It was less goofy overall, and got rather serious at times, and those serious moments were possibly truth within it. They were so serious that Nashu's mind couldn't exaggerate them or make them sillier than they seemed.
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08-15-2021, 01:43 PMArdoxQuote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
Did he said he meant to relinquished his aether? I think in the cinematic he's already 100% a primal when he fights Bahamut off.. I've always read the felt the black stripes were added to really drive home he was now something more
Edit:
Is there really any mention that a primal *can't* choose to dissolve it's aether themselve? -
08-15-2021, 03:25 PMIscahRamuh seemed to need us to fight and defeat him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardox
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08-15-2021, 03:47 PMArdoxI don't remember exactly Ramuh's arc, from what I recall it wanted to test us. The Striking Tree trial starts with Ramuh saying "Thou art Brave, Bringer of Light. Yet bravery alone shall not convince me of the worth!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
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08-15-2021, 06:14 PMVyrerusI truly do love this take, as it enhances the comedy. I still think everything shown is possible in world though, even the "exaggerated" bits.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuDragnier
The Mandervilles are just more folks who are in strength terms in league with someone like the WoL (greater the earlier the expansion). They just don't have the same ambitions, and also have belief sets that would go against them being heroes for the entire world. The ole, rob them of the agency to save themselves sorta deal.
The easiest comparison for a "serious" quest vs. Hildibrand shenanigans in this regard is the Warrior job quests from Stormblood. In Curious Gorge meets his match, he comes into contact with a Xaela woman who is being consumed by the, "Will of Karesh" which is what her tribe knows the Inner Beast as. She hits Roegadyn Marauders so hard with her axe that she knocks them hundreds of yalms into the sky which sees them plummet down into the ocean. This is a canonical job quest, and it makes use of rather similar visuals to Godbert tossing Hildi anywhere! -
08-16-2021, 05:31 AMAnonymoose
I imagine if Alexander could have dusted itself, it wouldn't have created such a convoluted time-loop and cat to ensure it all worked properly.
The whole saga might have been:
<Alexander powers up> ..."Nope"... <Alexander powers down>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardox
Quote:
Louisoix
As you have no doubt surmised, I did not perish. When the cage built from the essences of the Twelve was destroyed, the sky was filled with a colossal cloud of aether... This drifting energy responded to the prayers of those fighting below─and to my own desperate wish that the dying realm be saved─by infusing me with the power of a primal (in some languages primal-like power). I became the immortal Phoenix, ancient symbol of rebirth. Rising into the sky, I struck Bahamut with all my newfound strength. The blow shattered his earthly form, and a shower of aether rained down upon the land.
Thus began the rejuvenation of Eorzea. Believing the deed done, I relinquished my hold on that staggering energy, desirous that it should be returned to the realm without delay. But I had not reckoned on Bahamut's tenacious will. Even as he teetered upon the cusp of oblivion, the dragon reached out to claim me. Alas, within my fast fading form, enough remained of the Phoenix's energy to offer Bahamut a hold, and he dragged me along in his wake.
Quote:
Louisoix
There are records of an art that allowed one to summon the power of a primal from the essence of its demise. And though I am no true primal, all that I have left, I give to you.
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08-16-2021, 06:18 AMUltimatecaliburBut that discounts that the knowledge gained from Alexander was necessary to prevent the Eighth Umbral Calamity. If Alexander calculated that the Tycoon was needed to create the perfect timeline, self-termination would not have have been a viable option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
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08-16-2021, 10:12 AMRyuDragnierAlexander in general is a giant paradox, and the funniest part is Alexander itself is fully aware of it! That's why it decided to do nothing in the end, and just slightly move things in a necessary direction using a cat avatar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur
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08-16-2021, 11:01 AMArdoxQuote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
yeah but in the same breath he says "I became the immortal Phoenix". Also, what Louisoix says is really vague: what does he means exactly by "I'm not a true primal"? Maybe he confirms he only borrowed Phoenix's power, maybe he's warning his grandchildren that no one could resummon him with that part of his mortal soul, maybe he means he's something "more" than just a primal; maybe back in ARR, there was some difference between primals/eikons/gods, who knows?Quote:
Louisoix
As you have no doubt surmised, I did not perish. When the cage built from the essences of the Twelve was destroyed, the sky was filled with a colossal cloud of aether... This drifting energy responded to the prayers of those fighting below─and to my own desperate wish that the dying realm be saved─by infusing me with the power of a primal (in some languages primal-like power). I became the immortal Phoenix, ancient symbol of rebirth. Rising into the sky, I struck Bahamut with all my newfound strength. The blow shattered his earthly form, and a shower of aether rained down upon the land.
and all that doesn't really matter since even if Louisoix was not a primal it wouldn't answer the question "Is a primal able to dismiss itself"? -
08-16-2021, 01:40 PMRosenstrauch
There's always the possibility that Louisoix is dismissing himself as a primal because he's still working under the belief that a primal is a real God summoned by its worshippers. It wasn't until Mog, and later Shiva, that this notion was dispelled for us.
Or maybe the primal Phoenix, as part of his "believing their own story" schtick, believes himself to be "Louisoix, having channeled the power of the Twelve to become Phoenix". Kinda like how Tsukuyomi's convoluted schtick is that she believes she's Yotsuyu if Yotsuyu had the power of the goddess Tsukuyomi. -
08-16-2021, 03:34 PMAnonymooseAnd that may very well be True (the "real" reason) in the end! It's a great excuse. It's just...it would just be a very recently-written piece of lore, while we're looking for clues in the contemporary context of stories distant past - where the devs heads were at the time. Recall that the dev. team has acknowledged that they had no idea in 3.4 that we'd be going to the First or seeing the Warriors of Darkness again at the time. Kinda hard for the writers of Alexander to consider the implications of the Tycoon not knowing it'd exist, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur
Imho, that's why it's fun to track "intended all along" versus "iNtEnDeD aLL aLoNg".
But it's true. If they decided tomorrow a full primal could fully mist itself and had to come up for excuses why some didn't, that may be part of Alexander's. -
08-17-2021, 12:38 AMBrightamethystThat's how I see it too. That the events themselves actually happened but what we're seeing is an exaggerated version of them, a la the Wandering Minstrel EXs.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuDragnier
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09-21-2021, 03:54 AMZero-ELECIt could very well be that Alexander, being summoned with a physical medium, cannot disperse itself on its own will, in addition to its incalculable knowledge of being needed to avoid the Eight Umbral. Besides Alexander needed to be locked in a time bubble to avoid further paradoxes, just the one was enough, I'd think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose