Stacking AOE markers latest trend?

Has anyone noticed people in the last couple days stacking the AOE markers? Not the tacos, but actually running over to stand on you so there are now two aoe markers which will pretty much wipe the group.

I am trying to figure out why this is suddenly a more prevalent thing lately as it has happened to quite a few people I know, so I doubt its all the same person just being... unwise.

Not sure how you can get to 80 without knowing you dont do that...

I've seen a lot of people during mechanics that put markers on some and an actual stack on another think that it's okay for the AoE people to stand in the stack. Though I would say it's either a coincidence or because of the influx of new players that probably refuse to learn anything, regardless of level.

I had a tank in a level 70 dungeon with less HP than me as a MCH and when I suggested they upgrade their gear they said they were working on it, I guess implying that they wanted gear from the dungeon, but they passed on tank gear that dropped. I said they can buy i385 stuff from shops and they said they were broke. Somehow. Then they called me an elitist for saying their poor gear affects everyone, etc. etc. but I only pointed it out because I've seen so many players lately with piss-poor gear (saw a PLD in Syrcus Tower with a Weathered Ring, for example) so I felt like I had to start intervening to tell people to upgrade.

Sorry for going slightly off topic there, but I think it has to do with a lot of people not understanding and refusing to learn what MMORPGs are about.

TBH I feel like the issue goes outside video games as I've been seeing more ppl IRL that would push a button labeled "Push button to get hit in the face with a cannonball" then not understand why they got hit in the face with a cannonball after pushing it.

Common sense has become a superpower... >.>

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Originally Posted by Doozer

I've seen a lot of people during mechanics that put markers on some and an actual stack on another think that it's okay for the AoE people to stand in the stack. Though I would say it's either a coincidence or because of the influx of new players that probably refuse to learn anything, regardless of level.

I had a tank in a level 70 dungeon with less HP than me as a MCH and when I suggested they upgrade their gear they said they were working on it, I guess implying that they wanted gear from the dungeon, but they passed on tank gear that dropped. I said they can buy i385 stuff from shops and they said they were broke. Somehow. Then they called me an elitist for saying their poor gear affects everyone, etc. etc. but I only pointed it out because I've seen so many players lately with piss-poor gear (saw a PLD in Syrcus Tower with a Weathered Ring, for example) so I felt like I had to start intervening to tell people to upgrade.

Sorry for going slightly off topic there, but I think it has to do with a lot of people not understanding and refusing to learn what MMORPGs are about.

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I'm not trying to derail your point about players with poor gear... but I will say this much. You can unlock the Crystal Tower raids immediately upon clearing the main scenario dungeons, and you can't start earning poetics until you do your first runs of those dungeons. Accessories aren't given out much as rewards up to that point, and even at level 50 you're still better off spending your early poetics on a weapon, chest and leg gear than on a ring.

I ran into this myself when I first hit level 50 playing on an alt with a friend who recently came to the game, and did hit level 50 still wearing some of those weathered accessories they start you out on at level 1. I COULD have spent gil on something form the market board, but also knew that it wouldn't really take me that long to replace my gear by cleariing content and getting tomestones, and if I had a high enough item level to enter, that would be fine.

This doesn't excuse the player who passed on gear that would have been an upgrade. But there is a reason you might run into people at level 50 still with some of their gear being lower level.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

I'm not trying to derail your point about players with poor gear... but I will say this much. You can unlock the Crystal Tower raids immediately upon clearing the main scenario dungeons, and you can't start earning poetics until you do your first runs of those dungeons. Accessories aren't given out much as rewards up to that point, and even at level 50 you're still better off spending your early poetics on a weapon, chest and leg gear than on a ring.

I ran into this myself when I first hit level 50 playing on an alt with a friend who recently came to the game, and did hit level 50 still wearing some of those weathered accessories they start you out on at level 1. I COULD have spent gil on something form the market board, but also knew that it wouldn't really take me that long to replace my gear by cleariing content and getting tomestones, and if I had a high enough item level to enter, that would be fine.

This doesn't excuse the player who passed on gear that would have been an upgrade. But there is a reason you might run into people at level 50 still with some of their gear being lower level.

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as a crafter, accessories are a mess for all classes until mid 50's so, seeing something under level up to 60'ish makes sense from that perspective, gear however .. not so much.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

I've seen a lot of people during mechanics that put markers on some and an actual stack on another think that it's okay for the AoE people to stand in the stack.

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That's my new favorite thing to see when I get Hades in roulettes, someone always does this during the add phase and nearly kills the party

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Originally Posted by wereotter

I'm not trying to derail your point about players with poor gear... but I will say this much. You can unlock the Crystal Tower raids immediately upon clearing the main scenario dungeons, and you can't start earning poetics until you do your first runs of those dungeons. Accessories aren't given out much as rewards up to that point, and even at level 50 you're still better off spending your early poetics on a weapon, chest and leg gear than on a ring.

I ran into this myself when I first hit level 50 playing on an alt with a friend who recently came to the game, and did hit level 50 still wearing some of those weathered accessories they start you out on at level 1. I COULD have spent gil on something form the market board, but also knew that it wouldn't really take me that long to replace my gear by cleariing content and getting tomestones, and if I had a high enough item level to enter, that would be fine.

This doesn't excuse the player who passed on gear that would have been an upgrade. But there is a reason you might run into people at level 50 still with some of their gear being lower level.

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Still, there's plenty of opportunities to get better accessories between literally level 1 and wherever they currently are. Even if they were wearing level ~38 accessories, it's better than one you start with at the beginning. And I can't count how many people I've seen over level 30 wearing the Brand-new Ring that gives them no bonuses anymore. Pretty sure I saw someone with it in a level 70 dungeon the other day. It has less to do with people strategically deciding to wait for higher levels to bother upgrading and has more to do with them just coasting through the game, not understanding a single thing.

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Originally Posted by baklava151

That's my new favorite thing to see when I get Hades in roulettes, someone always does this during the add phase and nearly kills the party

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It's funny that you mention Hades because that's the fight I had in mind, because it happened just yesterday. It's so weird that people are doing that now, especially in level 80 content.

I keep seeing people running away with stack markers, then complaining when they die. I can sort of understand it on Nidhogg, being the first time the standard stack markers show up in required content, but by Ruby Weapon you should know better.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Still, there's plenty of opportunities to get better accessories between literally level 1 and wherever they currently are. Even if they were wearing level ~38 accessories, it's better than one you start with at the beginning. And I can't count how many people I've seen over level 30 wearing the Brand-new Ring that gives them no bonuses anymore. Pretty sure I saw someone with it in a level 70 dungeon the other day. It has less to do with people strategically deciding to wait for higher levels to bother upgrading and has more to do with them just coasting through the game, not understanding a single thing.

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The Brand New Ring, even though it doesn't have the XP bonus anymore, still has better base stats on it than a lot of other accessories available at that point in the game, so it does make sense to continue wearing it up into the 40-ish levels assuming you didn't get anything else. Just looking it up on strength stat right now, to give an example. Brand New Ring gives +3 to strength. The next best item is an HQ Mythril Ring at level 37 which has +4 strength. Yes it's better but not much, maybe not something a player will want to spend their gil on at the market board when it gives such a small difference. After that you can get +5 strength on a ring at level 47, but if you're an experienced player you know it's probably just better to wait three more levels till you can get an ironworks ring that has +23 strength, and would be a much larger boost. Considering we've had multiple instances where what is considered to be the best in slot gear for the end game means using non-upgraded rings, which currently is a difference of 16 points of main stat, the difference of 3 points max between the Brand New Ring, and the best available ring before unlocking the tomestone vendor is so minimal it's not even worth complaining about.

But even with all that, the game conditions new players to not bother buying gear now that it just hands out so much of it as quest rewards. Players who try to upgrade their gear feel punished if they buy something new only to have the game give them either the exact same item, or something even better by simply progressing the story along. This can be seen as a game design problem, but the fact of the matter is the game is designed in such a way that you still technically have a high enough level to your gear that you can enter the content, meaning the developers have deemed it clearable. And the person, if they're working to gear up, should be fine to go ahead and do the content. We don't need to add any additional judgment or gating to it beyond what the game already imposes.

I've only seen this mostly in E12 where people stack the two stack markers during the memories part. I know when it came out doing so would kill the group. Better gear though seems to make it not a death sentence. The only other time I know of people stacking the stacks is the tank stack during E4S. Which isn't something most experience.

The markers that people don't seem how to do is earthshakers. Even when they're not named that. People almost never spread them properly.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

I've only seen this mostly in E12 where people stack the two stack markers during the memories part. I know when it came out doing so would kill the group. Better gear though seems to make it not a death sentence. The only other time I know of people stacking the stacks is the tank stack during E4S. Which isn't something most experience.

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had it happen twice in Bunker last night, which, I have to admit.. was a new one for me

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

Has anyone noticed people in the last couple days stacking the AOE markers? Not the tacos, but actually running over to stand on you so there are now two aoe markers which will pretty much wipe the group.

I am trying to figure out why this is suddenly a more prevalent thing lately as it has happened to quite a few people I know, so I doubt its all the same person just being... unwise.

Not sure how you can get to 80 without knowing you dont do that...

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Trying to think of what fights you'll experience in MSQ before Shadowbringers end game where you'll get 2 stack markers at the same time and need to spread them.

Coming up blank. I think SOS is the first time it actually happens in MSQ. Normally it's one part of the full party splitting off to deal with a single stack marker while other party members are handling a different mechanic happening at the same time.

Chances are good it's an actual lack of experience with that specific mechanic since most players aren't going to jump into raids before they've got MSQ completed. They've been told that everyone needs to stack when the stack marker appears so they do. They don't stop to consider that there might be a different way to handle it when there are 2 or 3 present instead of one.

Doesn't help that it's perfectly safe to stack all 3 together on Archaeotania and Formidable with current gear and assuming there's a decent sized group present at those FATEs, and for a lot of players that will be their first experience with the multiple stack marker.

Can you explain it more for a casual? If I have a aoe marker on me I am suppose to stay away from others, is that right? Then when is it I am suppose to stack, and do I stack to share the damage? Then what damage if not aoe?
I have a rough idea of how to behave in dungeons but this is a little confusing.

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Originally Posted by Tarryme

Can you explain it more for a casual? If I have a aoe marker on me I am suppose to stay away from others, is that right? Then when is it I am suppose to stack, and do I stack to share the damage?

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If there is a marker over you AND on the ground around you, you don't stack that on top of people. There is a different marker for the stack mechanic and that just shows over a person's head with no ground indication.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

The Brand New Ring, even though it doesn't have the XP bonus anymore, still has better base stats on it than a lot of other accessories available at that point in the game, so it does make sense to continue wearing it up into the 40-ish levels assuming you didn't get anything else. Just looking it up on strength stat right now, to give an example. Brand New Ring gives +3 to strength. The next best item is an HQ Mythril Ring at level 37 which has +4 strength. Yes it's better but not much, maybe not something a player will want to spend their gil on at the market board when it gives such a small difference. After that you can get +5 strength on a ring at level 47, but if you're an experienced player you know it's probably just better to wait three more levels till you can get an ironworks ring that has +23 strength, and would be a much larger boost. Considering we've had multiple instances where what is considered to be the best in slot gear for the end game means using non-upgraded rings, which currently is a difference of 16 points of main stat, the difference of 3 points max between the Brand New Ring, and the best available ring before unlocking the tomestone vendor is so minimal it's not even worth complaining about.

But even with all that, the game conditions new players to not bother buying gear now that it just hands out so much of it as quest rewards. Players who try to upgrade their gear feel punished if they buy something new only to have the game give them either the exact same item, or something even better by simply progressing the story along. This can be seen as a game design problem, but the fact of the matter is the game is designed in such a way that you still technically have a high enough level to your gear that you can enter the content, meaning the developers have deemed it clearable. And the person, if they're working to gear up, should be fine to go ahead and do the content. We don't need to add any additional judgment or gating to it beyond what the game already imposes.

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To add to this, just continuing the MSQ for a few more quests gives you a full set of i70 accessories. Combine that with a new i130 weapon (Castrum and Prae give exactly 600 poetics for completing them the first time) and the i90 set from the job quests, having 1 ring under level 50 is not going to be a big issue.

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Originally Posted by Arillyn

If there is a marker over you AND on the ground around you, you don't stack that on top of people. There is a different marker for the stack mechanic and that just shows over a person's head with no ground indication.

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Big thanks for this. I was doing it all wrong. I wondered why the healer would leave me to rot. :D

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Originally Posted by Arillyn

If there is a marker over you AND on the ground around you, you don't stack that on top of people. There is a different marker for the stack mechanic and that just shows over a person's head with no ground indication.

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I think it would be nice to correctlly name and describe the AOE markers. They have more or less standardized the markers after ARR.
Spilt damage mark- 4 arrows pointing towards a character(or npc). Stack up within reason to spilt the damage. If there are two, half goes to each one and the marked players move a reasonable distance apart.

Ground targeted AOE- some colored marker on the ground, normally orange but can very. Blue ones are either limit breaks or allied NPCs. Normally doesn't move. Move out of non-allied ones.

Character targeted AOE- some colored marker on the ground that follows players with a floating marker on the targeted player. Space out as to not have the AOE hit another player, overlapping AOEs is normally fine.

Alliance marker- single arrow point to each member of one alliance. Stack with alliance members, stacking with members from a different alliance does nothing.
Some fights may have some specifics needs for it alone, like getting hit by a zombification aoe or the gravity aoe to lift up being a spilt damage instead of a character targeted AOE.

Stacking AOEs or stacking stack markers?
Because stacking planted AOEs is great it frees up a lot of room.
Stacking stack markers will just kill people.

It is not new. I don't know how many times I was killed like that in the past and the math boss in the Lighthouse almost every single one of my runs someone would follow me to kill me on it when it was even 2 months old. I think some had just set follow on me as a healer for a free carry. Sometimes though it is just two people adjusting the same way as each other over and over and a simple mistake.

As for split stack markers, they are usually in EX's and I've seen groups that don't set groups in mentor roulette do it that don't wait for an explanation of mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

Not sure how you can get to 80 without knowing you dont do that...

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I've seen a ton of lvl 80's recently who don't know what positionals are and are standing in front of bosses the whole fight.
Boosters I'd imagine.

I've noticed this recently too with how people will more frequently move into you with aoe.
You'll position yourself and it looks like they have too and they're standing still, then in the last second they panic or something and run into you.

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Originally Posted by Tarryme

Can you explain it more for a casual? If I have a aoe marker on me I am suppose to stay away from others, is that right? Then when is it I am suppose to stack, and do I stack to share the damage? Then what damage if not aoe?
I have a rough idea of how to behave in dungeons but this is a little confusing.

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sorry, maybe I was not as clear as I could have been. I am talking about the marker you get where if someone has one, everyone stands with them so the damage is shared. so, logically, if you now have two people standing together, the shared damage will go from just one hit being shared, to two hits being shared which in most cases, will wipe the raid group that this was done to. well, our tank survived so that was good I guess, just no one else did.

I am pretty sure I have seen more than one of those show up in a raid pre 80, but, I am not sure on that one.

They really need a duty thing about 60 that takes you through different markers. how many times have we seen a dorito sprinting away from everyone else.... or someone with this marker even...

It's at least amusing the first time when I run a marker away from the party as a tank and they chose to chase after me and end up dying from it... Not so amusing when the same group does it 3-4 times in a row XD

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

I am pretty sure I have seen more than one of those show up in a raid pre 80, but, I am not sure on that one.

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Seph Ex will do it. Several Alliance raid have a random dps in each alliance get a stack marker.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

I've only seen this mostly in E12 where people stack the two stack markers during the memories part. I know when it came out doing so would kill the group. Better gear though seems to make it not a death sentence. The only other time I know of people stacking the stacks is the tank stack during E4S. Which isn't something most experience.

The markers that people don't seem how to do is earthshakers. Even when they're not named that. People almost never spread them properly.

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I don't think it actually killed groups on release. The reason people can stack stacks in E12N is because the stacks do not give players a debuff (like in alliance raids, E7N, etc). SE most likely didn't make this stack give a debuff because people ALWAYS hit the crystal and if the crystal got a debuff... wipes from bad placement, etc.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

spending your early poetics on a weapon,

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Whoa whoa whoa, back the fun bus the eff up!

Full disclosure, I just discovered yesterday that poetic vendors have an accessories tab (felt dumb, but also happy) and I have multiple 80 jobs and a bunch more post 50, but the one thing I still feel I have to hoard for future jobs while leveling through squadrons and trusts are weapons. Outside Gil vendors, they don’t feel guaranteed enough like all the tomestone-provided slots (so every other slot).

Maybe this deserves its own topic and if so maybe I’ll make one, but one of the mysteries still eluding me is how one guarantees oneself 50/60/70 weapons when passing through these leveling milestones, in the same vein as one can provide for every other slot while leveling alt jobs via poetics!

(And no, deep dungeon weapons don’t count, the currency to do so in time requires much more dedication to that specific content to do so for every job on its way through)

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Originally Posted by Omedon

Whoa whoa whoa, back the fun bus the eff up!

Full disclosure, I just discovered yesterday that poetic vendors have an accessories tab (felt dumb, but also happy) and I have multiple 80 jobs and a bunch more post 50, but the one thing I still feel I have to hoard for future jobs while leveling through squadrons and trusts are weapons. Outside Gil vendors, they don’t feel guaranteed enough like all the tomestone-provided slots (so every other slot).

Maybe this deserves its own topic and if so maybe I’ll make one, but one of the mysteries still eluding me is how one guarantees oneself 50/60/70 weapons when passing through these leveling milestones, in the same vein as one can provide for every other slot while leveling alt jobs via poetics!

(And no, deep dungeon weapons don’t count, the currency to do so in time requires much more dedication to that specific content to do so for every job on its way through)

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I agree. The game doesn't do anything to direct you toward knowing how to get gear once you're reached the end game or any of the expansion milestones. My first time I attempted to play I ran into a wall of not knowing how to get new hear while not having a high enough item level to do higher level content. If I'd known about tomestones vendors at all that would have made a huge difference.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

I've only seen this mostly in E12 where people stack the two stack markers during the memories part. I know when it came out doing so would kill the group. Better gear though seems to make it not a death sentence.

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Yeah, that's the only place I can recall seeing it as well.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yeah, that's the only place I can recall seeing it as well.

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That and stacking both of the markers on the memory crystal for some reason....

I kind of wish there was more of a consequence to that kind of stupidity. Like if you stack one of even worse both of them on the memory, it will shatter, and you will fail.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

sorry, maybe I was not as clear as I could have been. I am talking about the marker you get where if someone has one, everyone stands with them so the damage is shared. so, logically, if you now have two people standing together, the shared damage will go from just one hit being shared, to two hits being shared which in most cases, will wipe the raid group that this was done to. well, our tank survived so that was good I guess, just no one else did.

I am pretty sure I have seen more than one of those show up in a raid pre 80, but, I am not sure on that one.

They really need a duty thing about 60 that takes you through different markers. how many times have we seen a dorito sprinting away from everyone else.... or someone with this marker even...

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I'm none the wiser in fact I'm more confused. I mean it's not fair. Us sprouts get a slap for doing it wrong when the game won't teach us. And people on dungeon runs just don't have the time. As proposed, there should be a in-game tutorial of some kind dedicated to markers, there are so many different types of markers along with other stuff it's no wonder so many are ignorant of the mechanics. Or better still have tutorial runs were veterans can volunteer themselves to teach us pore ignorant sprouts.
I'm not lazy and try my hardest to understand. I also watch what others are doing in individual dungeons in a attempt to map them in my head. It's fast and furious in there and not at all easy to learn while fighting.

In all my time in the game I have had ONE guy who taught us as we ran a dungeon. That was my happiest time in a dungeon and we cleared it with style. It's no ones fault. Some people assume everyone knows everything about the game. Some people think they know everything about the game when they don't. If anything it's the game that's at fault and should give further tuition, then there would be no excuses.
I think I do well in dungeons but I know I'm probably kitten and doing everything wrong. It's easy when you know how.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

That and stacking both of the markers on the memory crystal for some reason....

I kind of wish there was more of a consequence to that kind of stupidity. Like if you stack one of even worse both of them on the memory, it will shatter, and you will fail.

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Eh, that's what Savage and Extremes are for. It is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

Has anyone noticed people in the last couple days stacking the AOE markers? Not the tacos, but actually running over to stand on you so there are now two aoe markers which will pretty much wipe the group.

I am trying to figure out why this is suddenly a more prevalent thing lately as it has happened to quite a few people I know, so I doubt its all the same person just being... unwise.

Not sure how you can get to 80 without knowing you dont do that...

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It has to do with the literal thousands and thousands of new players.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Eh, that's what Savage and Extremes are for. It is what it is.

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I figured it would wipe you in Savage. But I'm saying this is something so blatantly obvious that it should wipe you in the story mode too. If you want to prevent trolling, make it so both stack markers have to hit the memory, but if you're trying to protect a thing, there's no reason to drop damage on it. That should be something anyone can grasp.

The current arrow-in stack marker started showing up in Thordan Extreme, and those who didn't do it when it came out, first saw it in Nidhogg NM. People actually still die to it today mainly because of not enough stack and the healers not healing at-all.

My favorite one is the one in Bozja skirmish in the 2nd zone where if you don't get in the marker, you will die unless you have an essence or VIT going. I love watching people who think "nah i'm good thanks" Bye.

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Originally Posted by technole

The current arrow-in stack marker started showing up in Thordan Extreme, and those who didn't do it when it came out, first saw it in Nidhogg NM. People actually still die to it today mainly because of not enough stack and the healers not healing at-all.

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In non EX content, the absolute earliest (based on release time) is Void Ark on the last boss. This marker is unique in that it also shows how big the affected area is compared to all other stack markers.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

I figured it would wipe you in Savage. But I'm saying this is something so blatantly obvious that it should wipe you in the story mode too. If you want to prevent trolling, make it so both stack markers have to hit the memory, but if you're trying to protect a thing, there's no reason to drop damage on it. That should be something anyone can grasp.

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Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you here. However, I doubt this is going to change.

To be fair in Cyrcus Tower the last boss does three AoE but the reflex you get is to get away from other players when it is actually the opposite.