Need to do something about alliance raids

An 8 man option really needs to be available for all alliance raids. People are not even trying anymore.

Over half the people in Alliance raid roulettes don't even participate and are only auto attacking when the boss steps in front of them. It's getting ridiculous.

It's causing an absolutely dreadful experience.

Last one I did they where trying. Trying not to stay alive that is.

8 man option is called Savage raids.

Nope, it's fine as is.

This is a long standing problem, and one that is woven into the very philosophy of the game sadly.

See I actually kind of enjoy how much of a mess Alliance Raids can be. It's one of the only times now when playing a Healer actually gets my blood pumping.

I've got some bad news: This is a feature, not a bug. It is by design.

Yoshi believes skilled players who care about doing well should be carrying the lazy bad ones who don't want to do anything. From everything I've heard on the subject, it's pretty clear that "Large instances where good players handle things while everyone else just latches on for the completion" is the director's vision for the future of the game. it's only going to get worse, not better.

Profits > Game.

Try Dalriada sometimes, 35+ people and getting to 1 minute before timer runs out on last boss. Some may call it winning or close enough. I call it low effort. People not using essences memes.

I'd like to see a 8 man do the parts during Alliance Raids where normally the 3 groups are split to do multiple tasks at the same time.

Let's see... we need 3 tanks, 3 heals and.. 2 DPS?
Yeah, that sounds like it'll work just fine.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

I've got some bad news: This is a feature, not a bug. It is by design.

Yoshi believes skilled players who care about doing well should be carrying the lazy bad ones who don't want to do anything.

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Is there somewhere I can read or watch where he has stated that.

That is rather alarming.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Nope, it's fine as is.

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I concur with this; my experience for the last few months has been fine. Sure, every once in a while there's a rough group that needs to time and energy invested to help teach the group, which by the way IS LITERALLY THE POINT OF DUTY ROULETTES. However, it's not all of the time. I see it maybe 1-2 times a week and I do Alliance Raids literally every single day.

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Originally Posted by Enla

See I actually kind of enjoy how much of a mess Alliance Raids can be. It's one of the only times now when playing a Healer actually gets my blood pumping.

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I also agree with this! It's fun helping folks learn how to do new things, and having to step up my own game to help them out!

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Originally Posted by Izar_Chillen

Is there somewhere I can read or watch where he has stated that.

That is rather alarming.

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No, it's not alarming because that's not accurate at all. The actual context that I've been made privy too has a great deal more depth to it rather than just "...carrying the lazy bad ones who don't want to do anything". That comment, in fact, is an incredibly short sighted, toxic perspective of the complete situation.

Seriously, how do people keep neglecting the idea that the literal point of the Duty Roulettes is to help other / new players? Yes, we know that there is the occasional bad egg that purposely trolls groups, but there are ways to communicate and call that out and tools to remove such people. However, the general context is still to HELP players. That's the point of the rewards. Not to give you something "because you're cool", it's there to make people HELP others.

Good lord, for the amount of whining I see on these forums about people not wanting to help other players, why on earth do you continue to use the Duty Finder?

It's okay to question a producer's vision.

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Originally Posted by Alxyzntlct

No, it's not alarming because that's not accurate at all. The actual context that I've been made privy too has a great deal more depth to it rather than just "...carrying the lazy bad ones who don't want to do anything". That comment, in fact, is an incredibly short sighted, toxic perspective of the complete situation.

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It is why I asked the poster to show me where the producer said that , because I dont believe it . As far as I am aware the Alliance is for story telling on a grander scale with semi difficult mechanics that are tricky with unfamiliarity and really enjoyable for the first few times once you get used to them.

I absolutely adore the HW and SB alliances and I looked at a few of the MTQ and MrHappy guides to get an idea of what to expect as I was a healer on both occasions going in there so I could heal through the damage for others that were new and hadn't done any research.

I just wish there were more Alliance style raids , large and grandiose, as I hate the idea that end game is just appearing on a platform to fight a boss.

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Originally Posted by Izar_Chillen

It is why I asked the poster to show me where the producer said that , because I dont believe it . As far as I am aware the Alliance is for story telling on a grander scale with semi difficult mechanics that are tricky with unfamiliarity and really enjoyable for the first few times once you get used to them.

I absolutely adore the HW and SB alliances and I looked at a few of the MTQ and MrHappy guides to get an idea of what to expect as I was a healer on both occasions going in there so I could heal through the damage for others that were new and hadn't done any research.

I just wish there were more Alliance style raids , large and grandiose, as I hate the idea that end game is just appearing on a platform to fight a boss.

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So in hindsight, after reading your response, I recognize how caustic my own response was and I apologize for that...

You're absolutely right, or at least I agree in that the Duty Finder Alliance Raids do seem to be more for story telling but on a grander scale, a good introduction into Raiding without getting into really high-end mechanics.

I also thoroughly enjoy the HW and SB Alliance Raids! The story in general is incredibly well done, and the fights are creative unto themselves. Maybe they'll be less-so after a few more years of me playing the game, but like I noted before, I certainly don't mind doing at least 1 a day at this point. ^_^

It's less that skilled players must carry unskilled players, and more like experienced players can carry inexperienced players.

In Savage, one player missing a mechanic ruins it for the other 7 and everyone has to start over. In normal raid and alliance raid content, 1 person screwing up doesn't necessarily ruin it for the others - you can usually recover and they can try to do better next time.

The more afkers there are in alliance roulette means the more mechanics I will see. If everyone was playing optimally then it would be even more boring than it already is. If anything, the unskilled players add some spice to alliance raids.

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Originally Posted by Alxyzntlct

Seriously, how do people keep neglecting the idea that the literal point of the Duty Roulettes is to help other / new players? Yes, we know that there is the occasional bad egg that purposely trolls groups, but there are ways to communicate and call that out and tools to remove such people. However, the general context is still to HELP players. That's the point of the rewards. Not to give you something "because you're cool", it's there to make people HELP others.

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For my understanding, the roulette is there to help people who queued for a specific dungeon/raid to get into these so they aren't stuck in queue because no one else is queuing for them. And not for helping in the dungeon/raid itself.

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Originally Posted by Izar_Chillen

Is there somewhere I can read or watch where he has stated that.

That is rather alarming.

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I don't have a link, but it was in one of those interviews that got translated at one point.

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Originally Posted by Alxyzntlct

Good lord, for the amount of whining I see on these forums about people not wanting to help other players, why on earth do you continue to use the Duty Finder?

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ding ding ding, someone mawd!

We have like a ton of new players coming in, so yes, it's going to get messy, because people are still learning, we should be helping these people out, not kicking them while they are down.

Patience and compassion can go a long way. :)

Is this another instance of someone else whining because a raid wiped on Behemoth in CT?

When content is dead easy this will happen. People are bored and won't put effort into anything they don't find enjoyable

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

I'd like to see a 8 man do the parts during Alliance Raids where normally the 3 groups are split to do multiple tasks at the same time.

Let's see... we need 3 tanks, 3 heals and.. 2 DPS?
Yeah, that sounds like it'll work just fine.

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So long as you know the mechanics and the fight has no enrage then the DPS are just there to speed up the inevitable.

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Originally Posted by Neoyoshi

We have like a ton of new players coming in, so yes, it's going to get messy, because people are still learning, we should be helping these people out, not kicking them while they are down.

Patience and compassion can go a long way. :)

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We have no choice but to stan this growth based mindset.

Take every opportunity to be a good experience for other people in this fictional world we share, everyone is at different parts of their journey and trust me when I say most people who suck at raids are not actually free riders.

I remember my first clear of crystal tower. So much stuff was going on I got overwhelmed and spent about 80% of the raid on the floor and it took me a few times and a lot of advice from other players willing to take the time to get to the point I wasn't basically concussed by all the action going on. So now that you got stuff on lock, its time for you to help the person panicking.

They aren't going to get better without help, and part of why max level players get paid in the fancy tomestones is to get their experience into the party. Every roulette is mentor roulette!

Someone could also try this new thing people call "having friends" and doing content in "premade groups", this way you don't have to deal with random people!

But now you might say, hey Ranaku i don't have friends cause i am always complaining at the forums about stuff and i really don't want to be nice to these lame people, especially cause i am so much better than them!

So for these people i have also a really good solution to this problem. It's called "buying friends". Just grind as much gil as you can and buy your friends today! You can even be awful and mean towards them, if they run away just buy the next one!

The last solution i have for you fellas is...become a famous streamer! Just let your minions raid for you and tab out while your mindcontrolled simp army is clearing the dungeon/raid for you!

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

Someone could also try this new thing people call "having friends" and doing content in "premade groups", this way you don't have to deal with random people!

But now you might say, hey Ranaku i don't have friends cause i am always complaining at the forums about stuff and i really don't want to be nice to these lame people, especially cause i am so much better than them!

So for these people i have also a really good solution to this problem. It's called "buying friends". Just grind as much gil as you can and buy your friends today! You can even be awful and mean towards them, if they run away just buy the next one!

The last solution i have for you fellas is...become a famous streamer! Just let your minions raid for you and tab out while your mindcontrolled simp army is clearing the dungeon/raid for you!

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Thank you this really made me chuckle this morning. It really is the only answer. Come on people this is a game not serious business, give each other a break. We are all suppose to be here to have fun not work at a job unless of course you are a famous streamer.

There is no point in making threads like this here.
People will only defend it, because most of the people here do the things you mention :p

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

There is no point in making threads like this here.
People will only defend it, because most of the people here do the things you mention :p

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Or we acknowledge that this is a 100% subjective topic and OP and everyone complaining about it has just anecdotal evidence to offer which is worth literally nothing. I almost never have bad alliance raid runs, never. So is that now the proof all alliance raid runs are perfect and everyone gives always their best? No. But neither is the opposite true.

So yeah, you can't change stuff just some people bring their own experiences out as evidence. It's weak and not worth the bits and bytes they used to write it down here.

By alliance raids, I’m assuming OP means CT? That’s the only thing that I see on roulette.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

There is no point in making threads like this here.
People will only defend it, because most of the people here do the things you mention :p

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This is how we disagree now just accuse people of doing the thing you don't like because hey they dont agree with me and or because this is another complaint thread that was started because ? OP wiped? Stuff happens, the world didn't end, the game didn't shut down blabla.

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Originally Posted by Torlala

By alliance raids, I’m assuming OP means CT? That’s the only thing that I see on roulette.

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Man, I envy you. CT is actually best case scenario as it gets facerolled even on minimal effort.

Now when you get a full group of people expecting CT, but rolling an Ivalice or Nier raid? Oh boy, the things I've seen...

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Is this another instance of someone else whining because a raid wiped on Behemoth in CT?

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Most likely. The HORROR of it all! How will life as they know it continue?!

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

I don't have a link, but it was in one of those interviews that got translated at one point.

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My best friend's girlfriend's mother's cousin said it, so it must be true.

I swear, this game of Telephone has gotten out of hand.

You can undersize alliance raids.
Try it out. It's fun and might scratch that itch of yours

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

My best friend's girlfriend's mother's cousin said it, so it must be true.

I swear, this game of Telephone has gotten out of hand.

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There was a thread about this two months ago and she remembers it.

Here is the link for those who couldn't believe it: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...84#post5579184

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

Someone could also try this new thing people call "having friends" and doing content in "premade groups", this way you don't have to deal with random people!

But now you might say, hey Ranaku i don't have friends cause i am always complaining at the forums about stuff and i really don't want to be nice to these lame people, especially cause i am so much better than them!

So for these people i have also a really good solution to this problem. It's called "buying friends". Just grind as much gil as you can and buy your friends today! You can even be awful and mean towards them, if they run away just buy the next one!

The last solution i have for you fellas is...become a famous streamer! Just let your minions raid for you and tab out while your mindcontrolled simp army is clearing the dungeon/raid for you!

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I, too, have 23 people ready on the go whenever I want to do alliance raids.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

There was a thread about this two months ago and she remembers it.

Here is the link for those who couldn't believe it: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...84#post5579184

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I see that in that thread the producers words are instantly interpreted as " he approves of lazy people who expect carries " which is not what he said at all. His words (if he spoke Japanese to the interviewer) when translated were

"I believe content like FFXIV’s alliance raids are great because it allows for players to have fun taking on challenges in a larger group of multiple parties, which lowers the amount of personal responsibility for each player for a more relaxed experience"


He is correct . Because of the large amount of individuals , no one person will wipe the group because of a failed mechanic , death , or a late heal /use of tank cooldown etc. Typically the negative amongst us used that to confirm their own bias that everyone but them and their close friends are lazy casuals.

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Originally Posted by Izar_Chillen

I see that in that thread the producers words are instantly interpreted as " he approves of lazy people who expect carries " which is not what he said at all. His words (if he spoke Japanese to the interviewer) when translated were

"I believe content like FFXIV’s alliance raids are great because it allows for players to have fun taking on challenges in a larger group of multiple parties, which lowers the amount of personal responsibility for each player for a more relaxed experience"


He is correct . Because of the large amount of individuals , no one person will wipe the group because of a failed mechanic , death , or a late heal /use of tank cooldown etc. Typically the negative amongst us used that to confirm their own bias that everyone but them and their close friends are lazy casuals.

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You'll find that there is are two camps of people here on the forums, both that blow arguments from the other side out of proportion.

You have the players that think anyone not performing in the top 1% is wasting everyone elses time, that if you aren't perfectly double weaving every skill then you're facerolling your keyboard, and that all content should be savage/ultimate difficulty. That Yoshi-P is the devil himself that's holding back the game from true greatness, and that he's doing everything to ruin their enjoyment of the game.

Then you have the other side that feels any mention of a rotation is elitist, and that raiders are the only toxic people in community. That Yoshi-P is the second coming of Christ, that all he does is solely for the benefit of the players and that he can do no wrong.

Both are constantly baiting each other to over react so they can report them for a forum ban.

In-game most people are somewhere inbetween, and generally understand that game has a balance of casual and hardcore content, with Party Finder generally being use to organize specific goals such as learning parties, farm parties, clear parties, etc. While Duty Finder is generally for more casual content with understanding that you could be partied with anyone from a day 1 sprout to a world first ultimate raider, with skills ranging from only auto-attacking to perfect rotations.

honestly i cried when they nerfed Thunder God :c but idk how to change alliance raids. they are fine, but i can see so many times how people dont care. how everything is easier because people are having better gear , so they might change some scale of difficulty based on average ilvl of whole three alliances, but well i guess too much work :x i really miss some mechanics, which are hard to see and participate because how overgeared party you have.