Is this bannable? FC leader got "voluntary" donations of millions of gil in 1 month

At beginning of year, a player (with what seemed as a new account with a level skip) created the fc I entered 1 week after that. FC leaders told members they could complete "tasks", that were voluntary activities, all of them were centered on getting stuff to put in fc chest. That will made them earn higher rank in FC. The tasks at lower rank were simple stuff like "give xx of every shard to chest", and at higher rank were "do this stuff to get some items and put them in chest" (another member told me it took him hours to do that). I was keeping record and donations to chest between gil and shards (at market board price) were some millions of gil (I never donated anything neither did the tasks, I just stayed there to chill with people). And told the people in top ranks will get rewards in gil. At end of first month they gave rewards to people in highest ranks, like 8 millions gil in total, but it was not even close to the value of everything gathered in chest. One day they even told members that for every new member they got during that day, they would receive 100K gil, they got almost 130 members at 5 weeks after fc creation.
I left 1 month after entering the fc (just after other members left saying everything in the fc was a scam). I told in chat that if everything wasn't a scam, leaders should put everything clear, like saying in discord the total monthly income, so everyone would know how is their money moving. And if it was, indeed, a scam, I hoped there were not more people caught in that. Some hours after that the leader send me a /Tell saying she was gonna report me for harrassement. She didn't do it.

After that the member numbers dropped to 60 and stayed like that. But some months after that one of the leaders "sold" the fc to other player and only after that, they told the rest of the current members via discord.
So at the end, the leaders got lots of millions of gil for "donations", and some more for selling the house, at expenses of the members who donated voluntarily doing stuff that took hours.
The new fc/house ownder said they don't know anything regarding the actions of the old leader. They changed the name and have been using it for a small number of friends.

Today I saw one of the former leaders in limsa /shouting inviting people to her fc, that has the same name as the older one, it was created 5 days ago and they have 20 members, but there isn't any of the old members that were inside it until it was sold (like the members are dispensable gil-makers).
It's obvious that what they're doing is wrong, and it's highly probable they wanna grab a lot of the new players that are starting playing the game those weeks, maybe (maybe not) to do the same gil-grabbing scheme.

But I don't know if the actions of both leaders are bannable/reportable or not.

That sounds exactly like a pyramid scheme.

Sounds like they're exploiting people to me. This is against the rules of the game.

Go for it. Report em in game. Let the GM's sort it out.

That's sus as hell, it seems pretty obvious that the leader engages in RMT as well as scamming. Absolutely report that.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

That sounds exactly like a pyramid scheme.

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I wonder if the leader calls people 'hun'...

The short answer to your Question is: No, it is not.

The somewhat longer Answer is: Unfortunately, from what i can tell from your Post, any form of Donation people did towards the FC, were on a voluntary basis, and handing out Items pretty much seals the deal as a legit trade action between players. The fact that Members even got a part of the actual value refunded is just a bonus to make the building up of a FC more bearable. While it can be nice to build up together a FC together with a bunch of People, from FC House to Building Projects, do keep always in mind that no matter the FC rights People are given, at the end of the day, it is still the FC leaders property.

Personally, those kind of FC's do sound nice on paper, but that system only works if it is being made by a close circle of Friends and if the FC also plans to keep their membercount low.

Therefore, The lesson of today: ALWAYS read the smaller printed text of any Contract you sign up for.

Sounds like favor for favor to me. Don't like it don't partake, simple.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

The short answer to your Question is: No, it is not.

The somewhat longer Answer is: Unfortunately, from what i can tell from your Post, any form of Donation people did towards the FC, were on a voluntary basis, and handing out Items pretty much seals the deal as a legit trade action between players. The fact that Members even got a part of the actual value refunded is just a bonus to make the building up of a FC more bearable. While it can be nice to build up together a FC together with a bunch of People, from FC House to Building Projects, do keep always in mind that no matter the FC rights People are given, at the end of the day, it is still the FC leaders property.

Personally, those kind of FC's do sound nice on paper, but that system only works if it is being made by a close circle of Friends and if the FC also plans to keep their membercount low.

Therefore, The lesson of today: ALWAYS read the smaller printed text of any Contract you sign up for.

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This. Unless you can get the FC leader to admit in chat that it's a scam, they likely wouldn't be able to do anything.

Because while it may look like it's a scam, it may just be someone who is bad at managing an FC and sought to restart the FC to try to move past the scam accusations.

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Originally Posted by TribalReturns

Sounds like favor for favor to me. Don't like it don't partake, simple.

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That’s the problem though, it was supposed to be “favor for favor” except the FC leaders didn’t follow through on their end of the bargain (aka, sharing back to the people who contributed).

This does sound like exploitation and I agree with some of the other posters, this feels like something that should be reported. This is exactly the kind of shenanigans that can ruin players’ experience of the game and shouldn’t be allowed.

I really doubt that you can ban people for taking advantage of the stupidity of others in-game.

In ToS, a rule against exploiting other people does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

I really doubt that you can ban people for taking advantage of the stupidity of others in-game.

In ToS, a rule against exploiting other people does not exist.

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I would say it's probably against this rule:

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3.6 Any Illegal Activities. You may not conduct any illegal activities whatsoever in connection with the Game. This includes every illegal activity not specifically highlighted above, including without limitation gambling, defamation, harassment, and fraud.

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I mean maybe it is I don't really know, but I'm the type of person who thinks that a FC ls or whatever can be run however the players see fit, and if people don't like it. Don't donate or leave it.

Just report in-game.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I would say it's probably against this rule:

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Please explain how gifting to FC breaks 3.6

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I would say it's probably against this rule:
3.6 Any Illegal Activities. You may not conduct any illegal activities whatsoever in connection with the Game. This includes every illegal activity not specifically highlighted above, including without limitation gambling, defamation, harassment, and fraud.

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I wonder if the leader is only pocketing the gil or maybe selling it RMT-style?

Fine line. Unless there are in game chat logs / in game FC description detailing said "volunteering" all Gil must be "donated" is and as mandatory (aka voluntold) it can be seen simply as just that.
Be it favor-for-favor versus donations-for-service.

Since information does seem limited, it does appear a bit Ponzi in aspect, but could be a standard method of operation for that particular FC's operation and someone wanted more value out of what they gave and is throwing shade to shame them for not getting what they wanted.

The truth on this matter is, uncertainty. Each side has their own truth, while the honest truth, sits alone ignored and forgotten while the web is being spun around it.

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Originally Posted by KHELL-CHEVERE

At beginning of year, a player ....

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Don't know if it's bannable, but it's questionable enough that I began thinking "RMT farmer" with players as the livestock and the loot they donate as the crops.

Avoid such requests in the future. Perhaps SE could take a look, but I don't know how it'd get reported. Perhaps ask a GM?

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Please explain how gifting to FC breaks 3.6

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It would be a Ponzi scheme, which is fraud. Which is specifically mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I would say it's probably against this rule:
3.6 Any Illegal Activities. You may not conduct any illegal activities whatsoever in connection with the Game. This includes every illegal activity not specifically highlighted above, including without limitation gambling, defamation, harassment, and fraud.

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Somehow, i believe this is to account for actual illegal activities that are using the game as a medium. This most likely doesn't cover lying to FC members for completely in-game gain.

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

Somehow, i believe this is to account for actual illegal activities that are using the game as a medium. This most likely doesn't cover lying to FC members for completely in-game gain.

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It's possible but it's not up to us to interpret the ToS by letter. It's fraud.. it also breaks several rules here:
https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...68216&ret=main

So while there are feasible doubts as to whether this is actionable, I'd say recommending the slighted members of the FC report the possible infraction and let the GM's decide what to do is probably the best recourse. If however the OP is leaving out huge swaths of information that show the FC was operating completely honestly and they're just looking for revenge, the GM's will be able to see that as well.
Also I find it mildly amusing how many people are trying to "letter of the law" away a recommendation of reporting something that , if true, is very obviously a scam and should at the very least be brought to the attention of people who can do something about it.

It's a scam only if the leader didn't deliver what was promised in exchange for the donations. Leader said donate and I'll give you rank promotions or gil. Members donated and got their rank promotions or gil. They got what they were told they would get. If they were concerned about the value, they should have gotten more specific details before donating.

The sale of the FC is a different matter. SE's been pretty vague on the rights of FC members when it comes to FC ownership compared to the rights of the FC leader. The most you can do when a FC leader sells the FC out from under the members is to report it and hope that SE will decide a scam occurred then restore the FC to the members.

Any time you have a FC leader or officers doing shady things like asking for valuable donations to the FC in exchange for things of minimal or no value, run. Those FCs never end well.

If you are concerned, then you should report this. A lot of what happens will depend on intent, and it is hard to prove without logs. But remember that gm's have access to tools and information we do not. So, report it. Even if this isn't 'wrongdoing' you have every right to leave a free company you aren't happy being in. There are lots of free companies looking for members.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

It would be a Ponzi scheme, which is fraud. Which is specifically mentioned.

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And how do you prove that? Were people forced? I think not. If you don’t like it you can leave.

IMO you should all be thanking the FC leader. You all fell for the dumbest trick in the book in an online game with virtual currency and not in real life, and for that you should be grateful. Now you are prepared for when the Scientologists and the "Be Your Own Boss" entrepeneurs knock on your door.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

And how do you prove that? Were people forced? I think not. If you don’t like it you can leave.

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First and foremost Ponzi schemes are usually voluntarily fallen for, that's why it's fraud. People get enticed and then swindled and used.
Second, I don't have to prove anything? I'd have reported it to a GM (though to be honest I wouldn't join a FC with a membership fee anyway) if someone had pulled that on me and told the other members to do the same. I'm not in this thread to argue a case or get a conviction, I'm saying go ahead and report. Sounds sketchy AF and if the OP is to be believed there's going to be a lot of reports from other former members as well that corroborate the story.

GM's can sort that out and do their jobs to try keep the community a fun place to interact and at least get rid of one pitfall for a trusting player.
Were you part of this FC? Do you have something to defend? Or are you just trying to pick an argument for no reason? This isn't a formal hearing, this is a discussion about an in game report for someone likely taking advantage of other players.

I’m not defending anyone, sorry I’m. It jumping down the accusations route most of you are when it was clear from the op that everything happened on free will. Not to mention it’s a video game. Some of you need to relax.

I don’t think it falls any under fraud if they were upfront (which it sounds like) that you donate to the fc, so if you don’t like it, just leave the fc and look for another one.

It don’t need to turn into a cancel mob on Twitter.

I’m not * can’t edit on phone.

Sure you can try and report them, i would do it to but you need good evidence to make it successful. Also from how it sounds the leader didn't really forced anybody to do this stuff. People participated in that because of their own greed, i bet most would have made a lot more money if they sold the stuff themselves instead of donating it. Lets be honest the leaders (no matter how despiteful they are) could only make tons of money with this method because sadly there are more than enough stupid people around that fall for such cheap tricks for whatever reason. If they would take the time and think about what they are really doing for a few minutes this wouldn't even be possible.

If they won't address FCs being directly robbed due to compromised accounts, I kind of doubt something more nuanced like this is going to be bothered with either.

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Originally Posted by ViolaLance

Fine line. Unless there are in game chat logs / in game FC description detailing said "volunteering" all Gil must be "donated" is and as mandatory (aka voluntold) it can be seen simply as just that.
Be it favor-for-favor versus donations-for-service.

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I have chat screenshots from when leaders asked people to do tasks (turn in stuff in chest), but the details of what to do after first task were given via direct message to each one.

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Originally Posted by ViolaLance

Since information does seem limited, it does appear a bit Ponzi in aspect, but could be a standard method of operation for that particular FC's operation and someone wanted more value out of what they gave and is throwing shade to shame them for not getting what they wanted.

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It was mostly that they told members to do extra stuff that took hours, just for having more stuff in the chest, and after paying the monthly reward there were still more millions of gil in the chest.
Leaders got free gil without almost moving a finger, while the fc members did "fetch quests" for hours. And at the end leaders sold fc/house (probably for more millions of gil) without telling any fc member prior.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I wonder if the leader is only pocketing the gil or maybe selling it RMT-style?

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I don't have any proof of that, but there's a chance they did that.
They even changed the fc name 3 times, maybe to not leave any traces (?)

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Perhaps ask a GM?

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How can I ask a GM? By reporting in-game under harassment?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It's a scam only if the leader didn't deliver what was promised in exchange for the donations. Leader said donate and I'll give you rank promotions or gil. Members donated and got their rank promotions or gil. They got what they were told they would get. If they were concerned about the value, they should have gotten more specific details before donating.

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You're right there, maybe "scam" wasn't the word I should've used.
They did what they promised to do.
What I see as bad actions from them is make fc members to spend time so fc leaders can get millions of gil. And that's what I want to know if it's reportable/bannable.

That sounds like a FC to leave.

Looks like a reasonable ban imo.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

That sounds exactly like a pyramid scheme.

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https://i.imgur.com/ezKCMBl.png

As scummy as that behavior was, I'm still doubting the GMs will actually do anything if people voluntarily catered to the whims of the leader/officers before they ditched them.

I would've bailed on a FC doing something like that immediately.