This game stands to benefit so much from DLSS support, ran at 4K this game is a massive, massive, graphics hog at maximum settings. Please implement.
DLSS Support
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07-04-2021, 11:30 AMAth192DLSS Support
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07-04-2021, 11:47 AMVirusOnline
Yes, it would.
But XIV uses proprietary, spaghet engine.
At baseline, if PS5 gameplay is optimized (or is it still PS4 ?), really the difficulty of implementing DLSS may not be worth it.
Baseline today would be PS5/PS4 and 1080p resolution and DLSS would at least require imo nvidia 20 series or AMD 6000 series.
At baseline, many XIV PC players might can say that they do not have at least that. Due to the market, I have been stuck with a 480RX for quite sometime but I can still maintain 75fps @ 1080p.
It's been quite some time since I've heard back about DLSS, but this of course because I am an avid AMD fan.
Anyone else more knowledgeable feel free to correct me. -
07-04-2021, 12:55 PMHollowedDoll
You want to make it even more blurry when the AA is already not ideal?
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07-04-2021, 07:57 PMCatherineNi
DLSS, unlikely. FSR perhaps ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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08-23-2022, 12:34 AMDarkshade
Forgive the necro, but it's really time for them to start considering the benefits of implementing DLSS/FSR. Tonight after maintenance we'll get our first step in the right direction, the dynamic resolution scaling, hopefully this means they're at least considering adding AI up-scaling.
Both techniques can look quite decent when implemented properly and can potentially increase performance significantly for high refresh rate displays or GPUs on the lower end of the product stack with a minimal hit to visual presentation.
In general, some form of TAA would be a great addition to address the awful stair-stepping that all the hard edges and the flickering the foliage exhibits and hopefully relieve the tired FXAA implementation that's really getting a little long in the tooth and has served it's time. -
08-23-2022, 01:59 AMJohners
The problem with implementing DLSS is that the game has no modern anti-aliasing techniques. DLSS and FSR 2.0 both build upon the temporal image data used by TAA. I'd love to see DLSS, FSR 2.0 and TAA all be added into the game but that requires a series of game engine improvements for Square Enix to implement that aren't likely to happen until 7.0 at the earliest.
I wouldn't say DLSS is entirely necessary though and the engine improvements mentioned above would likely yield performance increases across the board anyway. That said, I still average over 60 FPS in combat playing on a Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 32GB DDR4 3600 MHz and RTX 3080 12GB at native 4K but I'm just massively brute forcing spaghetti code. -
08-23-2022, 02:16 AMGreyhawk
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08-23-2022, 05:30 AMgilmorej
DLSS only works on newer model video cards that shouldn't even be breaking a sweat running this extraordinarily CPU-bound game.
If you're getting low framerates it's because you either have a video card so old that DLSS wouldn'thelp itwork on it anyway, or it's because you have a beefy machine but you're standing in Limsa where it's kneecapped by being bound to a single CPU thread anyways.
I don't know who this dynamic resolution is actually supposed to help. People running the game on ten-year-old mid-range laptops using Intel integrated graphics?? -
08-23-2022, 01:07 PMDarkshade
Seeing a lot of comments about DLSS/FSR not being necessary here... there's a lot of use cases. I have a 240Hz monitor. I can set XIV to windowed and make it a tiny window and get 190FPS. At my monitors native resolution (G9 Neo) 5120x1440 (which is effectively a slightly lower amount of pixels than a 4K display) I get anywhere from 50FPS in Frontlines to 140 in an empty zone using a 3080 10GB.
I don't think a lot of RTX enabled 2060s are running this game above 1080p, however with that said, dynamic 3D resolution support including AI upscaling techniques such as DLSS and FSR would help, as I previously said, products at the bottom of the GPU stack, output higher resolutions with better image quality and more consistent FPS.
The dynamic resolution will also likely help the aging PS4 edition greatly, where the base PS4 struggles to even meet 30FPS at times, even the PS4 pro and PS5 has to limit FPS if you choose to output at anything above 1080p/1440p on PS5. Some form of image reconstruction would further allow the game to run at a lower resolution while resolving greater detail with higher quality temporal anti aliasing. -
09-24-2022, 11:58 PMNightHour
FSR would be a better implementation than DLSS IF they can't do both due to engine limitations.
FSR works with AMD, Intel and Nvidia GPU's while DLSS is exclusively locked to Nvidia RTX cards.
PS5 runs on AMD hardware so FSR gets an extra point for why it would be the better option. -
09-25-2022, 12:21 AMLarirawielIf it slow at 4K then lower the resoulution. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ath192
Cheers -
09-25-2022, 01:12 AMArrhin
For those struggling to run 4K at max settings FFXIV has two settings that add a ton to rendering overhead but have subtle, almost unnoticeable effects. The biggest offender is Transparent lighting quality. Turn this down from Max to Normal, personally I see nothing between the two settings besides some reduced lighting reflections from still water (pools, lakes). The second is Screen Space Ambient Occlusion, turn this down from HBAO+:Quality down to HBAO+:Standard. There is an ever so slight difference between Standard and Quality but its effect is subjective, SSAO shadows just intensify ever so slightly. Make sure to test outside of the main cities as most systems will be CPU bound there, especially older Skylake or Zen 1 based rigs and ofc anything older than those. In the Goblet at night (Lots of lighting and water) for instance, my baseline for Max preset on an RTX 3060 and R5 5600X @ 1440p Ultra Vsync off is 75fps, GPU load at 100%. Transparent lighting Quality from High to Normal takes it to 85fps, turning HBAO+from Quality to Standard takes it up to 95fps. That's a big jump for some extremely subtle effects.
As for DLSS 2.0 or FSR 2.0, that would be amazing if only to have modern temporal AA... -
09-25-2022, 07:15 AMAth192Thank goodness not everyone thinks like this or nothing would ever improve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larirawiel
Still think this game would benefit immensely from FSR/DLSS implementations, AA improvements, optimizations etc... I'm really, really hoping the graphics update goes beyond shaders and textures. In fact, this game only stands to benefit monetarily for investing BIG into its graphics. See a lot of players stay in this game because they genuinely like the world, their characters and glams. The people that only play the story and quit aren't anywhere near as profitable as those that stay and keep playing to farm all the items etc... So investing in what they want, which is visuals and replayability is a great move IMO. It will ensure the game doesn't become considered outdated and dwindle. Like FFXI did. Thankfully it still has a small userbase keeping the game profitable.
Had FFXI received constant graphical updates including UI and gameplay elements... I believe it would still be attracting people to this day. But alas, it withered and getting back into those PS2 era UIs and graphics is a tall ask of new players.
At any rate updating graphics is hard and cumbersome, this is a big ask. I hope the Devs see a big pay off from it. I know for one I didn't quit after EW because of the graphics update anouncement. I was thinking the game was starting to look outdated and maybe it was a good time to call it and move on. But then this happened, and so they can enjoy my 2 years of subs and mog station purchases. If its a good graphics update and they keep improving things they have me on the hook for several more years. I already like their story telling and game play elements so its safe to say I am content if they keep those up as is.
I did quit XI cause XI was looking outdated and XIV looked a lot better. -
09-25-2022, 07:39 AMAtelier-Bagurnot by much really. I would wish for FFXIV to have a bit more style and color like some of the PS2 era artstyles. Im personally not a huge fan of pseudo-fantasy realism but Ive grown to be ok with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ath192
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09-25-2022, 07:39 AMArrhinThe irony being that what they suggest is in fact one of the things DLSS does...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ath192
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09-25-2022, 09:12 AMRansu
This game is already a blurry blob and can run on a toaster. DLSS is completely unnecessary to be implemented into this game and I'd rather they use resources elsewhere than to implement a pretty terrible feature that just muddies the textures and makes everything look worse.
Also, unless your monitor is over 32in you're wasting money on a 4k screen. Anything below that gains no real benefit from the pixel density of 4k and is just unnecessarily taxing your system with no real visual difference. 27in 1440p is the true sweet spot. -
09-25-2022, 10:58 AMArrhinDLSS, or even vanilla TAA with a sharpening filter such as AMD's Fidelity FX would be a HUGE upgrade in visuals over the current FXAA along with a decent frame rate boost. FWIW I'm on 1440p as well, currently running ultra/high settings at vsync 60fps and 70% utilization of my RTX3060 whilst using DLSS on fekking MSFS 2020. It looks better than native or even TAA at full resolution, and my system can't even hit 60fps with those settings. FFXIV at 1440p Max settings 60fps ALSO SITS AT 70% gpu utilization. We say XIV runs on a toaster not because it actually can, but because it has system requirements from 2013. It was a freaking fat hog back then in relation to its visuals and to this day uses far more graphical resources than it has any right to. DLSS isn't magic, it can have some issues in some games with temporal artifacting but it's an order of magnitude better than what we have now with FXAA. Whether or not it's worth the dev time? Well...they ARE messing with dynamic resolution scaling as part of the 7.0 upgrade which you'll see as a setting now (in Beta). They won't be able to implement that without something better than FXAA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ransu
(Edit: Sub in DLSS 2.0 everywhere, DLSS 1.0 was crap and needed per game training) -
09-25-2022, 03:01 PMRansuIt reaaallly wouldn't. All you'd be doing is trading one blurry/muddy mess for one slightly less blurry/muddy mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrhin
3060 shouldn't have any issues doing 120+ fps at that resolution...Then again, FFXIV is more CPU bound than GPU, but either way, unless you have a really bad cpu you shouldn't be struggling to have stable 60fps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrhin
What? No it didn't....The recommended requirements was an i5-2500T or an AMD Phenom II with like a GT 560 and 4gb's of ram. In no way what so ever was ARR a resource hog. They literally made the engine less intensive BECAUSE 1.0 was so insane on its system requirements and ran so bad on top of needing ARR to run on the PS3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrhin
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09-25-2022, 10:39 PMLarirawielUmmm, you know how DLSS/FSR internally works, right? :) It lowers the resoultion for you, scales the lowres picture up to your desired resolution and puts a sharpen filter on it. That's it. But you will still get a picture with a lower resolution. But to play with a lower resolution you do not need DLSS. You can set it ingame manually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ath192
Cheers -
10-02-2022, 07:24 PMNightHourIf they only implemented DLSS that would lock out people who use AMD GPU's, Intel GPU's or GTX 10/16 series and older card users.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrhin
Believe it or not, a lot of people still use GPU's like the 1660, 1660 Ti/Super, 1050, 1050 Ti, RX 480, RX 580, 1060 etc.
There's also likely to be people buying in to the new Intel A750/A770 coming out on 12th Oct.
DLSS would also lock out console users as the PS5 uses AMD hardware.
FSR would be the more logical one to implement if they can't do both due to engine limitations as FSR works on any kind of GPU.
FSR is also easier on a developer's side of things to implement than DLSS and isn't that much worse than DLSS 2.0.
You need to really pixel peep to see the difference. -
10-02-2022, 08:23 PMJohnersQuote:
Originally Posted by NightHour
Implementing DLSS would require reworking the rendering engine so there's temporal image data for the middleware to work with. Likewise, an implementation of AMD FSR 2.0 or Intel XeSS would also require the same. However, doing this would also allow TAA to be added. It's the kind of thing that wouldn't see happening until an expansion launch as they could release it alongside the first part of the graphics overhaul. That said, there's no reason why this couldn't just enable TAA, DLSS 2.0 (maybe even 3.0 as well), FSR 2.0 and XeSS all at the same time. Console users would still benefit from TAA/FSR and the PC audience can choose whatever works best on their hardware as well. -
10-03-2022, 12:00 PMLarirawiel
They should port the engine to DirectX 12 or Vulkan first. :) It will also give a nice performance boost because the runtime overhead is way smaller.
Cheers -
11-24-2022, 10:23 PMPaitoI totaly agree with that even the old cards that have DX11 drivers in the card get a bit of sharpen/FPS boost I did it a few days ago with mine old GTX 1080TI on The guardian of the galaxy game and it gives me even 10 fps more then normal. So there is a bit of an increase even it is small.Quote:
Originally Posted by NightHour
It is better then nothing. -
11-24-2022, 10:56 PMKatt_Felista
You know you can already use it via the old nvidia control panel an force it for the game, and save the setting right ?
I'm already doing upscale from 1440P into 4K without loss of fps on ffxiv by using the good old nvidia control panel , per game specific settings...
you just activate the DSR factor (i'm using the DSR DL setting of 2.25 X for maximum speed /efficiency upscaling ease for the rx 3070 and DSR Lissage / smoothing that can be setup to gain more or less picture sharpening if u want to, and change settings until you reach a stable quality of picture to performance ratio and voila... you can even also force the nvidia low latency setting for the game through this.
You can even force in some Spatial upscaling ontop of it but i wouldn't recommand doing it over 30% with the DSR DL 2.25 x activated or it may result in the game crashing while activating it higher then that. -
11-25-2022, 07:56 AMRaven2014Yeah, I'm on a 1060 and still get 70-80FPS in Frontline at 1440p, with it dropping down and stabilize at around 55FPS with battle in a full engagement at max setting. If a 3060 can't hold 60FPS at the same setting ... I don't think the problem lie with the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ransu
My Comp is up to modern spec though, the only reason I'm sitll on a 1060 is because I refused to upgrade during Covid at the stupid price. -
11-25-2022, 05:18 PMLarirawiel
The game is, like most other MMORPGs heavily CPU bound. If you have low FPS in Limsa then a new GPU will not help here. You need a faster CPU. And that is also the reason why i want DirectX 12 or Vulkan. Because those runtimes do not have such a huge CPU overhead like DirectX 11.
Cheers -
08-29-2023, 11:22 PMJiraTyanu
I know this is an old thread, but at the same time I am all in support of FSR 2.0/3.0 or DLSS 2.0/3.0 hitting FFXIV given the implications it could have for some users. Those on the steam deck, rog ally, etc. They'd benefit quite a lot from such.
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08-30-2023, 02:31 AMAth192It would really benefit the team if they looked into this. After all it would make the game playable on more hardware and give a huge FPS boost to those on high end stuff. There really is no downside since purists can turn it off.Quote:
Originally Posted by JiraTyanu
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08-30-2023, 03:04 AMLarirawiel
The problem is, they have to migrate the engine to DirectX 12 or Vulkan API first. And i doubt, that we will see that migration very fast.
Cheers -
08-30-2023, 05:16 AMJiraTyanuNot necessarily actually, FSR was made to work with a DX11 engine which we already have. They already also have a variable resolution thingy in the beta stage, so maybe that's hinting at it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Larirawiel
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08-30-2023, 05:44 AMSquishyPlushie
The game first needs to fix borderless fullscreen. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...o-BitBlt-Usage
Then they need to add a render scale option that lets us pick the scale %.
Then they need to add newer forms of post-AA, like SMAA and CSAA, and the usual variants of temporal AA.
Then, after all that, I'd argue DLSS should be considered. -
08-30-2023, 06:03 AMArrhinAcknowledging the fact that DX12 would need to be implemented first, both Nvidia's and AMD's up scaling techniques solve those two issues just by doing what they do. As for Full Screen borderless, are there widespread issues? I've seen very few posts about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SquishyPlushie
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08-30-2023, 06:56 AMLarirawielUnfortunately it's not so easy. AMD has a special FSR version, which can work together with DirectX 11 engines. But nobody knows how limited this version is. It is also not freely available, you have to contact AMD first to get it. Maybe it is unusable for the FF14 engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by JiraTyanu
Cheers -
08-30-2023, 08:49 AMSquishyPlushieQuote:
Originally Posted by Arrhin
There's a 3rd party tool called specialk that does the first two. Additionally, you do not need DX12 to do either. The first bullet point is a one line change (no, seriously, it is) for DX11 when initializing the swapchain itself.
Obviously use at your own risk due to ToS, despite it not being a thing to affect gameplay itself.
If they ever add an anti-cheat you won't be able to rely on things like this or gshade anyways, as the first thing to go with such is blocking or banning injections.
In any case, reminder that FFXIV is affected by bitblt usage and a developer needs to read the microsoft memo https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/dxgi-flip-model/. The entire reason for the fps loss in borderless vs regular fullscreen is due to this. As was said elsewhere, it also fixes variable refresh rate if you switch over to flip mode. -
09-10-2023, 04:15 PMJiraTyanuThis is weird to me cause I use borderless fullscreen with literally no issue at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrhin
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09-11-2023, 02:11 AMSigmaOZ
@OP
A new video card is your best friend, even if the game supported DLSS I wouldn't use it since it's just inferior to native resolution. -
09-11-2023, 03:34 AMDragonFlyySame here, never seen an issue with it in the years I've been playing. That's through multiple video cards (both AMD and NVidia). I'm not sure exactly what the issue is to be honest, never seen a post about it except SquishyPlushie's post, and I've never seen the game go to single digit FPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by JiraTyanu