I want a true Blacklist

I want a true Blacklist, one that when i blacklist someone i will not be trown in ANY istance where that person is.
It can work like this, if both of us queue for something the first of us that queued get to entry, the other one go on queue for the next free spot/wathever.

Is there a way to start a petition or something?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadlock
in short

How many people are you blacklisting? Seems extremely rare that you actually get instanced with someone more than once. I've been playing this game for years and I have never been thrown into any instance with someone I've seen before.

It happens!
I've been thrown into dungeons with people I wish I would never meet again ^^"
It can really ruin your day actually..
I just deal with it, but its weird that you can be thrown into dungeons with people you've reported and blocked for stalking, to me personally..

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Originally Posted by TroySoFab

How many people are you blacklisting? Seems extremely rare that you actually get instanced with someone more than once. I've been playing this game for years and I have never been thrown into any instance with someone I've seen before.

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Your avatar is super cute.

I don't think this could ever work. We can't have Duty Finder scanning every player's blacklists and trying to rearrange every queue to accommodate this. DF has no way to tell WHY you blacklisted someone. You could potentially just grief other players by making them wait longer if you happen to get in ahead of them, or just be elitist and blacklist them because they're "bad".

Also, if I happen to get grouped with you through DF and you blacklisted Person A, do I now have to wait longer because of your preferences? No thankyou!

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Originally Posted by TroySoFab

Seems extremely rare that you actually get instanced with someone more than once. I've been playing this game for years and I have never been thrown into any instance with someone I've seen before.

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I've actually had this happen a few times, where I'll see the same person twice in a row. I think it was just because we both happened to be farming the same content. But yeah, definitely not something that happens commonly enough to bother overhauling Duty Finder.

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Originally Posted by TroySoFab

How many people are you blacklisting? Seems extremely rare that you actually get instanced with someone more than once. I've been playing this game for years and I have never been thrown into any instance with someone I've seen before.

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I was doing content for my shadowbringers relic and kept getting the same people in my df groups many times in a row. Made sense as we were all doing the same relic step at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

I was doing content for my shadowbringers relic and kept getting the same people in my df groups many times in a row. Made sense as we were all doing the same relic step at the same time.

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Yeah, not saying it can't ever happen. Just seems like an extremely rare thing, and we don't need more stuff being done to DF to accommodate that. Resources could be used elsewhere, and fixing things that aren't broken usually ends up making it broken. I'd suggest just waiting a few minutes before re-queuing.

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Originally Posted by Anienai

Your avatar is super cute.

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Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

I was doing content for my shadowbringers relic and kept getting the same people in my df groups many times in a row. Made sense as we were all doing the same relic step at the same time.

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Was it the PoTD or HoH step? Because coming across the same people for those steps is not uncommon if you are spamming floor 51-60 and floor 21-30.

For all other content though, it's extremely rare to come across the same people.

I'd recommend OP to either change their preferred settings to all languages, or move to a data center that is not dead

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Was it the PoTD or HoH step? Because coming across the same people for those steps is not uncommon if you are spamming floor 51-60 and floor 21-30.

For all other content though, it's extremely rare to come across the same people.

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I was running Eden Leviathan for memories and the same few people kept ending up in the duty every time. No surprise when we are all there for the exact same reason.

Under average circumstances though, I agree it's very rare to run into the same person twice. I'm sure I probably have but didn't remember the first time since unless they really stand out, why would I?

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

I was running Eden Leviathan for memories and the same few people kept ending up in the duty every time. No surprise when we are all there for the exact same reason.

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Oh yeah, spamming specific raids and dungeons also would cause that since other people using roulette would get siphoned elsewhere.

Party Finder is your true blacklist. Everything else is luck of the draw.

I'm sure matchmaking is already a resource/bandwidth hog; it having to constantly store everyone's order of entry, pull up everyone's blacklist, check it against everyone else's blacklist, then requeue the person who entered latest if there's a match is a lot of resources spent to solve something that isn't really a problem. I'm sure the main thing it would get used for is to block any new players you run into when attempting to farm DF content.

There's people I've met in instances that are on my server that I'd like to be able to blacklist to this day. Except I have to wait for them to say something in chat outside of the instances they were trolling, because SE likes extremely convoluted illogical systems.

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Originally Posted by Dreamsoap

because SE likes extremely convoluted illogical systems.

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You sound like someone with vast programming knowledge. Please propose a sound resource alternative for the queue system that incorporates checks for blacklisting and queue order for the 20k/hour players in every data centre.

Unlike checks for language preference (J,E,F,G) and ongoing party (Yes or no), which in turn are the only 2 variables that can alter queue orders (Unsync, Minimum Ilevel, Silenced Echo all require a preformed party), the number of variables PER PLAYER the game would have to check for a blacklist system is equal to the number of players queieng for a particular duty at the same time, while having to resolve queue order in real time (A queued first and can be paired with B, but not with C who queued before B and can be paired with D and E, but D can't be paired with A because it doesn't have the duty A is queueing for unlocked, and E queued before D and can't be paired with B because they are both tanks, etc.,etc.,etc.).

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Unlike checks for language preference (J,E,F,G) and ongoing party (Yes or no), which in turn are the only 2 variables that can alter queue orders (Unsync, Minimum Ilevel, Silenced Echo all require a preformed party), the number of variables PER PLAYER the game would have to check for a blacklist system is equal to the number of players queieng for a particular duty at the same time, while having to resolve queue order in real time (A queued first and can be paired with B, but not with C who queued before B and can be paired with D and E, but D can't be paired with A because it doesn't have the duty A is queieing for unlocked, and E queued before D and can't be paired with B because they are both tanks, etc.,etc.,etc.).

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I don't really have a horse in this game but I figured it would be fun trying to make a contextual system.

So if we're to operate under the context of fairness to the majority which is how the games queue currently operates and anyone that isn't solo queuing can basically skip the entire queue then I believe the alternative system I'm hypothesizing would work something like this.

Blacklists would work as normal and there would be another blacklist that would function similar to the HUD upload and character upload section before you select your character that you would upload to the SE servers.
You would however still simply add said person to your regular blacklist and then there would be an added option to either remove them from your backlist or up it to the special new blacklist, then you would logout and upload it to SE servers.

This blacklist would probably be half the size of the normal blacklist(100) to save space, time, and in general reduce overall wait times/issues.
Usually not being able to see what a blacklisted persons says is enough of a safety net but if you really don't want to be paired with someone either because A. they play on the level of a troll and being called afk is a compliment or B. you simply have bad blood with them you can put them on this new blacklist.

Once uploaded SE servers will look over your blacklist and categorize your black list into a series of 0's and 1's this will tell the game to do a few things namely it will tell the game to remove visibility of the person you blocked similar to how it removes the visibility of their text not much difference yet really.

Now we go onto the next function and the most important/costly/time consuming function. Never being queued with said blacklisted person.
Firstly you have to specifically select this option as for most simply not being able to see their player model and what they're saying is already enough.
Who this works on will also be decided when you upload to SEs servers and will be saved under the same file.

The next thing the game will do is add a brand onto your player data if you have someone on your "Do not queue with this person" blacklist.

Every time a person(s) queue from then on the game will take your unique brand(lock) and add it onto whichever instance(cart/queue) it puts you in while waiting for other players.
Each player with a the special black list enabled will have a unique brand so the cart will probably end up with a few brands(lock) on it.
The branded cart will deny anyone you have blacklisted entry to the instance(cart/queue) and will be put in another one parallel to it for the process to start all over again.

Should it take longer than 3-5 minutes for the instance(cart/queue) to begin because of removal of said person(s) the game will then prompt you to either accept queuing with said person(s) or it will remove you from the instance(cart/queue) and put you in a different one, as the groups quality of life is mort important than yours as an individual.
This will most likely happen if said person queues up with friends.

Should the blacklisted person get removed from the instance(cart/queue) they will then have priority over the next instance(cart/queue).

Should they run into another person with the same level of priority it will be decided on chance and should they be removed again their priority level will increase so should they run into the previous person who had their level of priority they would now win the instance(cart/queue).

Now should the person who got kicked out of the instance(cart/queue) because they didn't accept queueing with said person they will simply be put in another queue at the same priority as when they first started it.

If you're in a party or using party finder people making parties will be given the option to allowed blacklisted people into the party or not, nothing to complicated.
If you want to avoid being put into parties with blacklisted people you have to make your own party.

Most if not all of the above functions would happen in the back and the only person who would know anything is going on is the person who accepted queueing with someone they special blacklisted.

Basically you would put a 'lock' on whichever instance/party you're in and the game would let the correct 'keys' in and the other ones would simply be left outside until eventually the game starts kicking out the minority to 'save' the majority.
This is a cheap copout to avoid having to deal with deadlocks.

Please blow holes through this thing I'm actually interested to see how badly I incorporated the idea, this took maybe 20-30ish minutes of contemplation.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

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Would work for queieing into individual or a group of instances, but that are the minority of queues. The majority happen through roulette, and from that point on it would get a lot more complicated because Roulette seems to prioritize filling up parties factoring in available roles and longest elapsed time, but it also seems to go down a list of "viability" since often times you'd queue as a DPS, get a queue pop, but one DPS fails to respond in time, which in theory should immediately pop back again since DPS is the most readily available role, but instead the Tank and Healer end being sucked into other queue and you have to wait again for another Tank, Healer and DPS to become available.

Which is also another factor to throw into the equation, that is, people failing to respond in time leading to the game having to recheck all the previous criteria you mentioned.

e: To me sounds like a lot of backend work for something that could easily be resolved by simply ignoring said player, and if the problem with said player is due to griefing and trolling in dungeons/raids, kick him and report him.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

I don't think this could ever work. We can't have Duty Finder scanning every player's blacklists and trying to rearrange every queue to accommodate this.

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That sounds like an absolute nightmare haha.
From this alone I can see why the black list has some of its limits.

But... I'm not all that experienced with other MMOs... do any of them have the kind of "true black list" OP is asking for? Is there precedent for this working? Or has it only been realized (if ever) in MMOs that aren't as instanced centric as FF14?

MMOs? Not that I can think of and I've played plenty, though I've never been one to add people into blacklists, my feelings are not easily hurt by random people on the internet, so maybe some had such a feature that I never end up using. The only times I've used any sort of blacklist is for gold seller bot chat spammers.

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Originally Posted by Garten

I want a true Blacklist, one that when i blacklist someone i will not be trown in ANY istance where that person is.
It can work like this, if both of us queue for something the first of us that queued get to entry, the other one go on queue for the next free spot/wathever.

Is there a way to start a petition or something?

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It would bottleneck the matching system while it tries to sort out who has who blacklisted.

It also wouldn't be able to prioritize you by who queued first unless you had both queued in the same role. Matching is determined by role waiting list number, not waiting number in general.

It should be extremely rare that you're getting matched to someone you've blacklisted. If the player is acting in ways that blocking their chat messages isn't sufficient, then I imagine the rest of the group will be happy to vote kick the player with you once they start causing problems.

If the rest of the group doesn't want to vote kick, maybe that other player isn't the problem after all?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

If the player is acting in ways that blocking their chat messages isn't sufficient, then I imagine the rest of the group will be happy to vote kick the player with you once they start causing problems.

If the rest of the group doesn't want to vote kick, maybe that other player isn't the problem after all?

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This sums it up pretty nicely

/thread

Reading all trought this i realized i did not know it could have been so complicated lol.. Out of clarity mi issue was something Harrasment related in istanced maps like Eureka / Zadnor.. but i guess i'll just find a work around, in case i'll just change istance myself.

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Originally Posted by Garten

Reading all trought this i realized i did not know it could have been so complicated lol.. Out of clarity mi issue was something Harrasment related in istanced maps like Eureka / Zadnor.. but i guess i'll just find a work around, in case i'll just change istance myself.

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That would be even worse, since the game would have to keep opening maps in order to accomodate different people blacklisting others.

Not to mention it would be extremely easily explotable, with a group of people coordinating blacklisting each other to force the game to keep opening more and more maps till the instance server crashes. You would basically be giving people a DIY DDOS tool.

In fact, now that I think of it, even for basic duty finder queues it would be easily exploitable to dilate queue times by having multiple people queued that can not be paired with one another causing the game to be unable to fill a party. For example, let's take MSQ roulette and assume that regardless of role the game takes 5 minute to form a party. 2 tanks 2 healers and 4 DPS queue, but they all have each other blacklisted. Now the game needs to find 14 other tanks, 14 other healers and 28 other DPS to accomodate the 8 potential parties, taking the queue times from 5 to 40 minutes.

No, the more I think about it the more problems this will create. It may sound harsh, but just learn to deal with people.

It's a pity that the number of blacklists is limited to 200, so I tell myself that I'll have to learn how to play because sooner or later, he'll be removed from my list to let other people take his place.

The blacklist on FFXIV is really bad, you just decrease the chance to meet this person in dungeon. Besides, banning him when he was in your friend list is not going to remove you from his friend list. So he can know where you are at any time and stalk you if he wants to and we know that the internet is full of sociopaths.

The blacklist system in WoW is really better done, and even the friend list system. On WoW, you remove a person from your friend list, it removes him from his list too. You blacklist the person, you don't meet them in dungeons anymore.

All this makes me think that FFXIV devs are not very good in scripting or scripting logic. It's a good MMO, but a lot of things seem to be wrong with the way the background is programmed:
- Why can't I attack directly from my mount? On wow, you charge an enemy, it removes your mount automatically. On FFXIV, you can't attack without manually sending your mount back.
- Why do emote shortcuts sometimes have no sense and no logic. They are often sentences stuck together without spaces, but who does that?
- The dungeon search system works weirdly, you're in the waiting list, if someone didn't answer or cancels, it doesn't put you back in priority in the waiting list. You can have 3 dungeon procs and then go back for another long wait. You are not put back in the same dungeon that had proc.

And many other things, makes me think the same.

And the way SE is handling the housing problem because of the house resellers is disastrous for those who don't have one yet. It completely penalizes the newbies who want a house making it almost impossible to buy pushing people to strange attitudes like spending hours clicking around, that's not a very logical or sensible behavior.
But a smoker is not going to stop smoking even if he knows he will get cancer at some point in his life. People are not going to stop drinking beverages filled with cancer-causing sweeteners, even if they know it.
There are fair solutions, but SE doesn't seem to care.

All this to say, it's my management of all this, although FFXIV is very good MMO in gameplay. Wow has bored me for years, but it does a lot of things better than SE on the substance, on the quality of life.

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Originally Posted by Dreamsoap

There's people I've met in instances that are on my server that I'd like to be able to blacklist to this day. Except I have to wait for them to say something in chat outside of the instances they were trolling, because SE likes extremely convoluted illogical systems.

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It used to be possible to add players to your blacklist with a simple text command, but once SE started appending @server to the names in preparation for world visit, this became impossible, because the command doesn't recognize player names as a valid argument anymore. Now it has to be done via chatlog or Contacts menu (this should work in your case).

I'm sure SE could fix this, but when they introduced the issue, they also stopped blacklist brigading, and they probably see it as an accidental win.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

I don't think this could ever work. We can't have Duty Finder scanning every player's blacklists and trying to rearrange every queue to accommodate this. DF has no way to tell WHY you blacklisted someone. You could potentially just grief other players by making them wait longer if you happen to get in ahead of them, or just be elitist and blacklist them because they're "bad".

Also, if I happen to get grouped with you through DF and you blacklisted Person A, do I now have to wait longer because of your preferences? No thankyou!



I've actually had this happen a few times, where I'll see the same person twice in a row. I think it was just because we both happened to be farming the same content. But yeah, definitely not something that happens commonly enough to bother overhauling Duty Finder.

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Sure we can.

WoW has this exact feature and ALL their region's servers are connected in dungeon finder.

I can put a dude on ignore and literally never see him again. I'm connected to over 200 servers. Works fine there.

I want true blacklist to. I have been put in a lot of instances where ones thats been on my blacklist been in my party. Some was players that loved to harrass others.

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Originally Posted by TroySoFab

Yeah, not saying it can't ever happen. Just seems like an extremely rare thing, and we don't need more stuff being done to DF to accommodate that. Resources could be used elsewhere, and fixing things that aren't broken usually ends up making it broken.

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That blacklisting doesn't prevent you from being matched into an instance with the person you blacklisted is broken to me. If I blacklist someone I want to have zero contact with them and do absolutely nothing with them.

I shouldn't have to leave a group and get a penalty just because the blacklist system was made by someone who fails to understand that being thrown into a group with someone who was horrible to you can ruin your day. I fortunately haven't been matched with someone I blacklisted but I know someone who has. They were matched with someone who bullied them and it upset them so much they didn't log in again for days. Blacklisting is supposed to protect players from unpleasant situations and in its current state it's not doing that as well as it could.

Also blacklist slots aren't numerous enough for it to cause a problem for queue times.