Sugestion: Add a option to not join WALL TO WALL pull groups.

some people just don't like to pull things like that. some others do, my last experience within the roulette made me wish i could not play with players anymore.

maybe if we had a check button so people who don't want to play the game the normal way the community has been enforcing around would be great. i'd like the mods of the forum to read this. people have been rude about this been a while, the game was once a more enjoyable, it is, until you have to get together with other players to get through dungeons.

it would work like this: want to do roulette and earn the currency to get gear but don't want to wall to wall anymore? ok, just check this option and well try to match you with other people.

people don't even ask and if you don't go through their way they trash you, they become rude to you, its either play their way or don't play at all.

i feel like not playing final fantasy XIV anymore sometimes.:(

Players wanting a particular dungeon experience can use the Party Finder to organize like-minded players.

This Duty Finder option would (A) be ineffective unless half-sized pulling was mandatory by in-game systems that currently do not exist, (B) be unpopular due to increased queue times, (C) increase queue times for all players since some players will inevitably use this option, and (D) present an inconsistent message for what the developers believe to be intended playstyles.

Currently, healing and mitigation requirements are so low when pulling single-packs that healers/tanks aren't required to clear, AoE skills don't have a limit on the targets that can be hit, and mitigation is percentage-based.

I believe the developers intended for players to use their full toolkits, and for tanks/healers to feel useful in a party role.

people doing roulette 90% of the time want to be done asap
people will wall to wall becuase all dungeons besides bardam and holmie switch are a joke ,
so just use Party finder if you are so against wall to wall pulls.

An option that further fragments the duty finder pool is a bad idea, regardless of what the option is. When you play with randoms, you deal with what you get. If you want fast and roulette gives you slow, you deal with it. If you want slow and roulette gives you fast, you deal with it. If you arent able to deal with this, you dont engage duty finder. Use squadrons where you can, use trusts where you can, use friends and party finder for the rest.

If you want to be convenienced by a pool of any and all typical XIV players, expect to run as the typical XIV player wants to. For all else, there is Party Finder.

By all means, promote different dungeon designs that aren't all the same stale procedure of run-to-gate, AoE spam, run-to-gate, AoE spam, but as long as they continue to be made as is, don't expect the devs to spend time adding new features that would increase queue times.

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Originally Posted by OhirumenoMuchi

people don't even ask and if you don't go through their way they trash you, they become rude to you, its either play their way or don't play at all.

i feel like not playing final fantasy XIV anymore sometimes.:(

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Then they are the problem, not the lack of a duty finder option.
Report them and have fun.

Unless you're the tank who can't handle it or the healer who can't keep up, there is zero reason to be against wall to wall in 99% of the dungeons.
The trash are really weak and the dungeons are hallway simulators. You gain nothing from not just pulling everything and using your 1 or 2 aoe buttons til they're dead.

Sadly dungeons design philosophy is so narrow that, that’s the only logical course of action. It would help if the dungeons weren’t heavily gated or linear then it would be impossible to WTW and the tank would actually have to guide Aurum Vale style.

If healing is too tight ask the tank to lay it down a notch or just wait and see if it works. Theirs no consequences on dying so no worries or concerns

As a dps single pulls are boring since I then have no reason to use my AOEs. Wall to wall means I can burn everything down in an instant. It's only tanks and heaters that should control wall to wall, the only reason not to do it is because either the tank or healer is not ready for it which will cause a wipe.
Wall to wall is not a new thing either its been a thing since I played in 2.0 because it is the optimal way to play.

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Originally Posted by Anya_Synia

As a dps single pulls are boring since I then have no reason to use my AOEs. Wall to wall means I can burn everything down in an instant. It's only tanks and heaters that should control wall to wall, the only reason not to do it is because either the tank or healer is not ready for it which will cause a wipe.
Wall to wall is not a new thing either its been a thing since I played in 2.0 because it is the optimal way to play.

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Not every dungeon in ARR was wall to wall friendly, SPECIALLY when ARR was current.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Not every dungeon in ARR was wall to wall friendly, SPECIALLY when ARR was current.

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Shh. The devs don't want us to remember variance or complexity. It might harm our increasingly rigid presuppositions that wall-to-wall pulls are fundamentally the only design possible to dungeons, which have been so useful to saving developer brainpower for more interesting things -- like figuring out how to get the greatest number of player grinding hours out of minimal development time in alternate-leveling-system areas.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Not every dungeon in ARR was wall to wall friendly, SPECIALLY when ARR was current.

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Iirc it was really Brayflox HM where wall to walling became popular--or at least, that's about as far as my friends and I were (Brayflox farming for tomes for relic) when that became a thing in my cognitive sphere.

You can't really have these options. Because it's up to people within the instance. And the game can't check people's mind.
Get used to it or only do roulette with premade group with your fc/friend or pf.

I won't hide it, I left many dungeons that weren't wall to wall because I didn't want to get bored.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Iirc it was really Brayflox HM where wall to walling became popular--or at least, that's about as far as my friends and I were (Brayflox farming for tomes for relic) when that became a thing in my cognitive sphere.

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People wallpulled long before BrayfloxHM, all the way back in 2.00, people were wallpulling Amdapor Keep before they made the demon statues mandatory for progression (and removed the bees from Demon Wall).

edit - Though some groups sac-pulled that, and I'm really glad that's gone.

In Legacy, there were even bonus chests for clearing dungeons faster, so again an incentive to speedrun.

As long as XIV has existed, wallpulling has been standard.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Not every dungeon in ARR was wall to wall friendly, SPECIALLY when ARR was current.

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Like Stone Vigil.

I didn't really see wall pulling being common with PUGs until they made healer damage go off MND and removed Cleric Stance.

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Originally Posted by OhirumenoMuchi

it would work like this: want to do roulette and earn the currency to get gear but don't want to wall to wall anymore? ok, just check this option and well try to match you with other people.

people don't even ask and if you don't go through their way they trash you, they become rude to you, its either play their way or don't play at all.

i feel like not playing final fantasy XIV anymore sometimes.:(

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This is literally what making a preform is for

That be nice option to have another option that be nice to have is option not join duty with sprouts.

Sadly the symptom of a wall to wall pull is because the dungeons offer little to no resistance to the players. There is little fight back or challenge in its completion. And thus the default setting for most players is to rush things. Do it as fast as humanly possible.
personally I believe this is due to the competing aspect of it. If you can pull off a dungeon in 15 minutes where others do it in 20, you will feel better about yourself and be a winner.

And I agree with the initial post of this threat. It would be nice to have groups that played the dungeon as the dungeon as meant to be played. Sadly that will not be while they are walkovers and flavorless. So my best idea for the Devs is to make it a challenge. Make fights that will have players stop up and have to think about their fight, instead of just mindlessly rushing it because they can.

So lets hope that dungeons will be getting a little bit of love in the future, so it don't turn in to a WoW dungeon fiasco where they where all lame and uneventful.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

That be nice option to have another option that be nice to have is option not join duty with sprouts.

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If you do that nobody will help sprout doing their MSQ content anymore.

My anxiety alone is enough to make me not want to wall to wall pull. Running around with all those mobs is just a mess.

AoE spells are also the least satisfying of abilities with the most boring of rotations. I HATED being forced to wall to wall pull while leveling damage. Now leveling a tank, I cant stand that people keep trying to pull more. I will let you die.

This speed run / minmax mentality was the worst part of WoW, I don't want more of it here.

But I do agree, options like this would do more harm then good in the duty finder.

You don't need veteran players to carry sprouts in dutys. All the sprouts need to do watch the video and listens to instructions for the mechanics. I don't see problem with wall to wall pulls but the tank should do a vote and ask if the others is ok with it.

Watch the video? For a dungeon? Why? I mean, if you want to and it makes you feel more comfortable then by all means go ahead. But its not even close to required. Just pay attention, and 95% of dungeon mechanics will explain themselves.

This is a really complicated problem to solve. I agree that wall to wall dungeon design is bad, but that is (mostly) how they are built. You also have to look at job design and realize that they've all been buffed to encourage big aoe pulls.

There are very very few aoe skills that do reduced damage per enemy hit. Rather than capping the number of targets you can hit, your aoe would be less and less effective. You'd still hit them but you wouldn't be doing extra damage by pulling more mobs. Nowadays aoe damage is uncapped, meaning every extra mob you can hit is added damage to your skill.

On top of that all attacks, outside of casters, are free. It used to be that a monk, for example, had the best aoe in the game but it consumed so many resources that you couldn't sustain it. Current jobs are designed with a building and spending phase. You press all your buttons when they come off cooldown. No resource management whatsoever. Even with casters I've never actually run into a situation where I was low on MP unless I was spamming raise or playing black mage.

Enmity has been almost eliminated from the game. Basically it is a mechanic that is exclusive to tanks since it is impossible for any job to get on the enmity table if tank stance is on. If you pull 20 mobs you don't need to think about who the mobs are attacking because they're going to hit the tank. Your only job is to press rampart and be blue dps the other 99% of the run.

Healers despite being reworked into what they consider a "pure" role is still little more than green DPS. Your off heals are so powerful you don't need anything more than one or two cures. Despite cure II, and adol being less cost efficient heals you can still spam them since they are the only thing you use your MP on anyways. Tanks passively gain damage reduction across that board from their gear and tank mastery trait (20% reduction of all damage from level 1!) so you wont always need your full kit.

All these things combined are the reason people wall to wall pull. From the average player's perspective when you look at how the game and your job is designed why would you not decide to wall to wall pull? It's clearly what the game was built for you to do. There is no way an in-game system can force players to change how they behave. Even if you tried and added some checkbox to the duty roulette there is no way to enforce that rule. With the way current jobs and content are designed why would you not want to wall to wall pull? Pulling one pack at a time wont make it any more challenging or interesting. We need more emphasis on what makes each role unique. Make healing a more active mechanic. Have tanks try to find a balance between extra damage or extra mitigation. Bring back diminishing returns on aoe damage. That way your party has the choice of doing full damage to small packs, or reduced damage to large packs, instead of there being one objectively correct choice.

As a healer I am getting bored out of my mind when the tank does not pull wall to wall. Even during wall to wall pulls I hardly have to heal and can spam Gravity. But single pulls I literally could remove all my healing from my hotbar as I do not need it.

If I see the tank is a sprout, okay, he most likely is not feeling comfortable with larger pulls or does not know the dungeon. I can live with that but experienced tanks should just wall pull to make it more interesting for themselves and the healers.

In all honesty, if i do the expert roulette and see a tank not doing W2W, i'll probably be slightly annoyed. Like others have said, the majority of players do the expert roulette every day to get the rewards, and when you've done the two same dungeons dozens of times, you'd rather finish it as soon as possible.

That being said, it's only a couple minutes of my life, so i won't even bother bringing it up, and i'll surely not start insulting a tank for not doing W2W ... People acting like this are ruining online games and you should just report them without hesitation.

Just know that in expert roulette, W2W pulls are pretty standard :D