WoW content creators trying FFXIV....can't believe production value.

Maybe it's the age of WoW and the reflection of the time it was released. But the WoW content creators can't believe the production value of FFXIV.

I have been enjoying watching the videos of these people reflecting on the SLOW SLOG that is ARR, and the incredible realization that this game isn't sluffing off when it comes to end game content.

The reactions to The Binding Coil of Bahamut truly make me happy. And all of the emotions of when I finished it come rushing back. I'm not afraid to admit I well up some tears when I here "Answers". It reminds me of 1.0 destruction and more emotions come back, this game truly has been through a lot of adversity, and I appreciate it so much more after it's triumphs.


This made me smile from ear to ear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjaJpBwHlBo

This is truly a revolution we are seeing with FFXIV, especially with those that are SOOOOO FAR behind with the content. I have truly enjoyed seeing the reactions to these content creators.

I hope they enjoy the critically acclaimed expansion Heavensward. I wouldn't mind doing the Steps of Faith again.....beautiful encounter! If any WoW content creator needs a helping hand let me know and I'll help anyway I can. Enjoy Heavensward and beyond!

It's a shame he didn't get to the very next Ahk Morn where the music really picks up and syncs well with the mechanics. I'm not even sure if he noticed the musical:mechanic sync but I think it's most notable at that next Ahk Morn.
But I'm glad this guy is enjoying the game!

I have been amused at watching a lot of these streamers play content from like... 2013 which most of consider to be a nadir for the game; and be absolutely floored by things we take for granted like hairstyles and background music.
Characters making eye contact with each other. Really simple things that apparently WoW doesn't do.

ARR isn't even that bad its just long and the plot drags on a while longer than it needed to. It really pales in comparison to what comes after it.

They've been sleeping on this forever and acting like its brand new. It's kinda funny

I have really enjoyed watching both Quazii and Medieval Marty lately. They're having so much fun with the game, despite so many veterans in the community griping about "ARR bad, real game does not start til Heavensward."

You have to remember in WoW world FF14 has been labeled as either a failure not worth looking at or some Japanese weeb game that American audiences would hate. Taliessen has been playing FF14 for 4 YEARS and never mentioned it once to anyone until one day he randomly pops on his channel with a full blown level 80 account doing end game stuff and leveling an alt.

It is sad the amount of people shocked by the most simple stuff FF14 offers. Although this swings both ways once raid minded ff14 players see Mythic level content.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

I have really enjoyed watching both Quazii and Medieval Marty lately. They're having so much fun with the game, despite so many veterans in the community griping about "ARR bad, real game does not start til Heavensward."

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I love Medieval Marty! I’m in the discord server, it’s been growing so MUCH!

I love seeing newcomers and streamers excited about the game. It's like experiencing vicariously that same excitement I had many years ago.

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

I love seeing newcomers and streamers excited about the game. It's like experiencing vicariously that same excitement I had many years ago.

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YES! Like when my kids experience games I loved when I was a kid. Then you see their smiles when they enjoy the same things I did. It's connects us that much more.

More people are enjoying something I also enjoy?
Neat ~

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Originally Posted by OranKells

I have been amused at watching a lot of these streamers play content from like... 2013 which most of consider to be a nadir for the game; and be absolutely floored by things we take for granted like hairstyles and background music.
Characters making eye contact with each other. Really simple things that apparently WoW doesn't do.

ARR isn't even that bad its just long and the plot drags on a while longer than it needed to. It really pales in comparison to what comes after it.

They've been sleeping on this forever and acting like its brand new. It's kinda funny

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The reason should be fairly obvious. Because under 'normal' circumstances, ergo, had WoW not slipped as far as it had, these are folks who wouldn't be deviating from WoW in the first place. I would reckon recent oopsies from Blizzard as well as buzz from people like Bellular.. not to mention SE themselves have made people take note of an alternative that's.. actually really good. WoW is for many of it's players the only MMO they'd ever play, and I dare say for many even the only video game they'd ever play.

It's always nice to see sprouts and new content creators.

The real question now is will Square take note of these events and not fall into complacency and decay like Blizzard did 20 years into the future or will it fall prey to the inevitable that awaits incredibly successful companies...

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

The real question now is will Square take note of these events and not fall into complacency and decay like Blizzard did 20 years into the future or will it fall prey to the inevitable that awaits incredibly successful companies...

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SE did exactly this a little over a decade ago and it nearly ended the company. I'm guessing they learned their lesson, at least for now.

It's so amazing seeing all these new people playing the game! It was never dead, but it's kinda having a resurgence? With all these new content creators, and the starting cities are absolutely crowded! I love that my favorite game is getting that much more popular! Now we have more people to play with, and hopefully SE will invest even more money on it!

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

The real question now is will Square take note of these events and not fall into complacency and decay like Blizzard did 20 years into the future or will it fall prey to the inevitable that awaits incredibly successful companies...

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Definitely the pressure is on SE now. When you’re at the top, the only way to go is down. Unless you can stay there.

The amount of focus and attention on FF14 is now reaching unprecedented level, with all the WoW content creators flocking over in the past months.

Many MMOs in the past tried to take the crown away from WoW before and never really succeeded because you do need the right product and the right timing.

Many had the right product but never the right timing. Well, FF14 now has both. Hope it doesn’t squander it away.

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Definitely the pressure is on SE now. When you’re at the top, the only way to go is down. Unless you can stay there.

The amount of focus and attention on FF14 is now reaching unprecedented level, with all the WoW content creators flocking over in the past months.

Many MMOs in the past tried to take the crown away from WoW before and never really succeeded because you do need the right product and the right timing.

Many had the right product but never the right timing. Well, FF14 now has both. Hope it doesn’t squander it away.

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You have entirely missed the reality of the situation.

Blizzard/WoW developed an MMO which became the standard which every company wanted to replicate, they changed mmo's and they changed gamers. over the length of time that WoW has been around, the company and the developers have developed an arrogance that they can do no wrong. People have always said "only wow can kill wow", so often that the developers, and the insanely loyal, believe. The attitude of people like Ion reflect this, their game direction reflects this, they tell you how to play, and as much as you hate it, you smile, enjoy it for a couple minutes, and play it their way, even as your soul dies a bit more and you hate the game.

If you bothered to watch fanfest this year, it is difficult to imagine that team having the same arrogance and dislike of their fans as the WoW team does. is it possible? of course it is. companies change and leadership changes. If SE "squanders" this, we'll know.. because every one of those devs at fanfest will leave the ship before we do. there may be things in FF XIV I shake my head at, but the reality is, its obvious the team loves their game. and thats what will keep it going as a quality product, not some desire to best WoW

the only difference now is, more people are understanding the difference between a poorly led dev team, and one that has good values and guidance and direction

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

If you bothered to watch fanfest this year, it is difficult to imagine that team having the same arrogance and dislike of their fans as the WoW team does. is it possible? of course it is. companies change and leadership changes. If SE "squanders" this, we'll know.. because every one of those devs at fanfest will leave the ship before we do. there may be things in FF XIV I shake my head at, but the reality is, its obvious the team loves their game. and thats what will keep it going as a quality product, not some desire to best WoW

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I'm growing to respect Asmongold because he just uploaded a reaction to Soken's cancer reveal and full on took his persona down and didn't put it back up the entire video (even after the video was over and he was just reacting to Lahee!) The only thing he could say was, JFC that is some amazing dedication to the game and the fans. You could see it hit him like whiplash.

I say that because that's something people... don't expect from game devs. Such intense dedication to the game, such love from the devs. I definitely didn't expect that - I expected a regular game with game devs who maybe cared about the game, sure, but weren't like... ride or die for it, y'know?

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

You have entirely missed the reality of the situation.

Blizzard/WoW developed an MMO which became the standard which every company wanted to replicate, they changed mmo's and they changed gamers. over the length of time that WoW has been around, the company and the developers have developed an arrogance that they can do no wrong. People have always said "only wow can kill wow", so often that the developers, and the insanely loyal, believe. The attitude of people like Ion reflect this, their game direction reflects this, they tell you how to play, and as much as you hate it, you smile, enjoy it for a couple minutes, and play it their way, even as your soul dies a bit more and you hate the game.

If you bothered to watch fanfest this year, it is difficult to imagine that team having the same arrogance and dislike of their fans as the WoW team does. is it possible? of course it is. companies change and leadership changes. If SE "squanders" this, we'll know.. because every one of those devs at fanfest will leave the ship before we do. there may be things in FF XIV I shake my head at, but the reality is, its obvious the team loves their game. and thats what will keep it going as a quality product, not some desire to best WoW

the only difference now is, more people are understanding the difference between a poorly led dev team, and one that has good values and guidance and direction

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Oh I don’t disagree with any of this. All I’m saying is that I’m hoping all the future expansions of FF14, starting with Endwalker, continue to blow our expectations out of the water. It is not enough to just "meet" our expectations anymore, but it needs to "exceed" it, because the game is at the highest point of receiving attention than ever before, and more attention also means more nitpicking will come at the slightest mediocrity.

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

Oh I don’t disagree with any of this. All I’m saying is that I’m hoping all the future expansions of FF14, starting with Endwalker, continue to blow our expectations out of the water. It is not enough to just "meet" our expectations anymore, but it needs to "exceed" it, because the game is at the highest point of receiving attention than ever before, and more attention also means more nitpicking will come at the slightest mediocrity.

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I agree. given what they have done so far, I think they have it in them, but as with anything, only time will tell. I think, as long as they continue with the same leadership team, and the occasional fresh blood, they should do well.

I mean, in all honesty, as a WoW refugee, I came in here with probably fairly low expectations in Stormblood, I just wanted to enjoy playing a game again, and, I have thoroughly enjoyed this. I expect disappointments along the way, but overall, I think expectations will be met and even exceeded if fanfest is any indication of their commitment to produce quality

Ew, he did Bahamut with Echo turned on.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

The real question now is will Square take note of these events and not fall into complacency and decay like Blizzard did 20 years into the future or will it fall prey to the inevitable that awaits incredibly successful companies...

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That's what "The Rising" event each year is supposed to do. It's serves as a reminder for the devs and a thank you note to the players for their support in the game for sticking with them thick and thin from the devastating 1.0 launch to the reboot in 2.0 and its expansions.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

Snip

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I feel this about basically all of their other titles too.
Legacy of the Void essentially butchered the story of Starcraft and was like bad fanfic, same goes for WoW's story now.

Then look at what happened to WC3R and they've been completely ignoring fans who don't like changes that doesn't feel accurate to the original for D2R.
Only communication that has even happened is their Twitter account attacking people.
When you have complete silence and when communication happens and that's what happens then it looks and feels terrible.

I honestly feel like this issue of arrogance goes a bit deeper than just WoW, Asmongold did sorta mention something when he talked about Soken's cancer and the speech.
Basically that there's just a different approach where in the US creators are kinda often full of themselves and it's all about self-aggrandisement and '' oh we're making this you should be so thankful to us ''.
While in Japan they're a lot more humble and it's like '' we made this, we hope you like it. ''.
I think that it only becomes worse at bigger studios because it's more of an ego boost to work at a big studio.

Some of it is probably just simply because we're exposed a lot more to the US side of things because they speak English and are so active on Twitter.
But everything I see from Japanese devs are them being humble and really cool, not to mention that there's a lot of them that are known for their personalities too ( Yoko Taro is a good example of that ).
While in the US everything is so scripted, it feels like watching robots on stage and in interviews.
You don't even get a sense of the actual personality behind it.

That's not to say that all of them are like that, for example Cory Barlog is still a really nice guy.
But it almost feels a bit forced, like just being perhaps a bit excessively polite and wholesome isn't exactly a very compelling personality and it feels kinda forced imho.

I mean it should say something that when something becomes a meme or especially of note at Blizzcon now it's stuff like '' don't you guys have phones? ''.
While at this Fanfest alone we got a ton of memes and funny moments of the devs just having fun with memes the fanbase created like the Lahee or the happy guys dancing.
Can you imagine the game director acknowledging the '' step on me '' meme from the fanbase in a cosplay competition?
Like it's at the point where it just makes me think it'd turn into some drama that ended with him apologizing for his '' horrible crime ''.


I've noticed this too the more I've started reading Swedish gaming outlets, the extreme arrogance and constant outrage bait and drama is just non-existent basically.
And the journalists engage a lot more with the readers and it's not this combative '' I am better than you '' thing.
And when they ask questions it's not dumbass questions about ERP or why an Android is wearing heels.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

That's what "The Rising" event each year is supposed to do. It's serves as a reminder for the devs and a thank you note to the players for their support in the game for sticking with them thick and thin from the devastating 1.0 launch to the reboot in 2.0 and its expansions.

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Lets not sit back and pretend FF14 could not have serious issue with a leadership change. I think FF Origins proves that bad leadership will alienate a fanbase pretty damn quick. Imagine if they put Nomura in charge of FF14 instead of Yoshida. We would have VERY VERY VERY different MMO then we have right now that would play more like Devil May Cry and be hyper emo.

We got lucky.

It's unfortunate that once these content creators hit the endgame they're going to find a dearth of usable content. FFXIV has no PvP to speak of; no treadmill; no real progression content for anything other than raids. They'll all eventually hit a brick wall where they pretty much have to abandon the game.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

It's unfortunate that once these content creators hit the endgame they're going to find a dearth of usable content. FFXIV has no PvP to speak of; no treadmill; no real progression content for anything other than raids. They'll all eventually hit a brick wall where they pretty much have to abandon the game.

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I find I have a lot to do still having reached "the end". if you mean the endless grinding timesink, there are the relic weapons

not everyone plays the way you do, or that I do. I for one, do not think endgame should feel like a job you have to show up for daily and hate every moment of it as I have found in other games. I actually enjoy whats at the end of FFXIV, and dont feel a pressure to grind into something that will be useless in a couple months, but thats just me. they may find the same

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Then look at what happened to WC3R and they've been completely ignoring fans who don't like changes that doesn't feel accurate to the original for D2R.
Only communication that has even happened is their Twitter account attacking people.
When you have complete silence and when communication happens and that's what happens then it looks and feels terrible.

I honestly feel like this issue of arrogance goes a bit deeper than just WoW, Asmongold did sorta mention something when he talked about Soken's cancer and the speech.

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It is not necessarily arrogance, it is more a disconnect between players and the decision makers. For me it seems that the decisions Blizzard makes are "management driven" or "how this new feature could improve our quaterly earnings" and not "this new feature could be fun". BfA had way too many systems that did not work very well. Then they needed many patches to fix the new systems. And after the systems were repaired a new expansion came out and all the repaired systems were completely removed. Shadowlands then introduced new systems and most of the systems are not fun at all. They will again need two patches to fix it. And after the fix they will remove the fixed systems again because of a new expansion. And the new expansion will introduce new not really well working systems.



The "you think you do but you don't"-thingy marks this disconnect between the Blizzard staff and the players. WoW Classic was a huge success. I guess the Blizzard staff can still not believe why the players had so much fun with a 15 years old game.


Cheers

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

The real question now is will Square take note of these events and not fall into complacency and decay like Blizzard did 20 years into the future or will it fall prey to the inevitable that awaits incredibly successful companies...

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My fear would be they fall into the trap of most other MMOs of starting to cater too much to the "more endgame" screamers, where the game becomes 80% "endgame" and all the cool stuff is locked behind the hardest content.

Of course if that would ever happen, it would add FFXIV to the exceedingly long list of MMOs I've quit.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

I find I have a lot to do still having reached "the end". if you mean the endless grinding timesink, there are the relic weapons

not everyone plays the way you do, or that I do. I for one, do not think endgame should feel like a job you have to show up for daily and hate every moment of it as I have found in other games. I actually enjoy whats at the end of FFXIV, and dont feel a pressure to grind into something that will be useless in a couple months, but thats just me. they may find the same

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It's a little different for streamers; they need to fill a lot of time with content that keeps viewers engaged. The only kind of content that really stays engaging for that long is competitive; whether it's trying to be top ranked PvP or trying to be at the top level of progression raiding. FFXIV will never be that game, so I see it having very limited appeal as a spectator MMO.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

Lets not sit back and pretend FF14 could not have serious issue with a leadership change. I think FF Origins proves that bad leadership will alienate a fanbase pretty damn quick. Imagine if they put Nomura in charge of FF14 instead of Yoshida. We would have VERY VERY VERY different MMO then we have right now that would play more like Devil May Cry and be hyper emo.

We got lucky.

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Oh my that's a chilling thought.
It does a lot to change my perspective because, yeah, hmm... if that were the case I def wouldn't be here.
My, now I'm a bit apprehensive about what'll happen in the inevitable post-Yoshida period of the game.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

Lets not sit back and pretend FF14 could not have serious issue with a leadership change. I think FF Origins proves that bad leadership will alienate a fanbase pretty damn quick. Imagine if they put Nomura in charge of FF14 instead of Yoshida. We would have VERY VERY VERY different MMO then we have right now that would play more like Devil May Cry and be hyper emo.

We got lucky.

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With or without Nomura XIV was going to be more like DMC had it been launched somewhere in 2016~2017. SE chases trends, and "tab-target" combat is essentially dead for newer MMORPGs in favor of MOBAs.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

I have really enjoyed watching both Quazii and Medieval Marty lately. They're having so much fun with the game, despite so many veterans in the community griping about "ARR bad, real game does not start til Heavensward."

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How many veteran players have started a new character since the ARR revamp was implemented in 5.3? Most haven't experienced what it is now. They're just making comments based on how it used to be.

The streamlining has greatly improved 2.0 as an introductory experience even if it's still not HW quality. It's not surprising the new players are enjoying it.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

It's unfortunate that once these content creators hit the endgame they're going to find a dearth of usable content. FFXIV has no PvP to speak of; no treadmill; no real progression content for anything other than raids. They'll all eventually hit a brick wall where they pretty much have to abandon the game.

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Some might. Others will stick around. It depends on what they want from a game. Not every content creator is obsessed with end game gear progression despite the impression you might get from more popular streamers.

The game has thousands of hours of content available to choose from. Those who are looking for more casual game play won't lack for things to do even after hitting level cap.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

My fear would be they fall into the trap of most other MMOs of starting to cater too much to the "more endgame" screamers, where the game becomes 80% "endgame" and all the cool stuff is locked behind the hardest content.

Of course if that would ever happen, it would add FFXIV to the exceedingly long list of MMOs I've quit.

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SE added a substantial amount of crafting/gathering specific content this expansion. They're adding Island Sanctuaries next expansion.

I don't think we need to fear that they're going to fall into the trap of focusing on end game, especially as everyone watches WoW dying because it did.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

It is not necessarily arrogance, it is more a disconnect between players and the decision makers. For me it seems that the decisions Blizzard makes are "management driven" or "how this new feature could improve our quaterly earnings" and not "this new feature could be fun". BfA had way too many systems that did not work very well. Then they needed many patches to fix the new systems. And after the systems were repaired a new expansion came out and all the repaired systems were completely removed. Shadowlands then introduced new systems and most of the systems are not fun at all. They will again need two patches to fix it. And after the fix they will remove the fixed systems again because of a new expansion. And the new expansion will introduce new not really well working systems.



The "you think you do but you don't"-thingy marks this disconnect between the Blizzard staff and the players. WoW Classic was a huge success. I guess the Blizzard staff can still not believe why the players had so much fun with a 15 years old game.


Cheers

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Oh yeah I agree with you, I just heard Asmongold mention this and it made sense to me especially with how I see a lot of US devs and game journalists interact with people online.

I definitely agree with the disconnect too, but I also think that's tied to the arrogance and the whole '' you think that you do, but you don't ''.
Because they think that they're the experts and know best, to some extent they're right but they also take it to an extreme.
I mean you can't just stop listening to the people you're essentially working for altogether, especially not when the feedback is so overwhelmingly leaning in one direction.

I do think that the corporate nature and culture also plays a part of it, but I think it's also just one piece of the puzzle.
I mean it's not like Blizz is the only greedy company, I think a lot of the decisions that they make are just them simply being out of touch and arrogant.
And I think that the arrogance is what stops them from learning, someones who's not arrogant I think would've learned at some point.
It's the fact that they don't seem to learn and keep ignoring feedback which is the arrogance part imo.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

The real question now is will Square take note of these events and not fall into complacency and decay like Blizzard did 20 years into the future or will it fall prey to the inevitable that awaits incredibly successful companies...

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This This scares me. Look at FF14 and then look at Marvel's Avengers. You'd think that it was made by two different companies but both are Square. A lot of the anti consumer stuff happening in gaming is present in square. The devs are shielding us from Square themselves. That's why I'm watching 16 so hard. If its a big hit(bigger than 15 and 7R) there's a good chance we might lose Yoshi - P to advancement.