Viera culture and sexuality

I was looking at Viera lore and it got me thinking. Wouldn't homosexuality be considered the norm with Heterosexuality being the very rare exception with their culture the way it is in regards to male and female interactions.

According to the lore, the males are never present except in the case of mating and picking up the young males and taking them away. The way it is described gives the sense that this practice is very dissociative with each other and the practice of mating unlike most other races is done as more of a duty to their tribe than an act of love. However we also know female Viera are not loveless beings. So isn't it possible that Viera women are more likely to develop romantic relationships with each other than they would males, with males develop relationships with other males to a lesser degree since males are solitary creatures by nature.

The closest to actual in-game lore about it is:

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"The value of coexistence will not be found neath a loincloth. Long has our kind endured understanding that the distance 'twixt two bodies does not dictate the distance 'twixt two souls."

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Which was basically a way of telling the dramatuge "Mind your own business".

The subject of Viera reproduction, sexuality, and gender identity is very complicated because it's very alien to us. For all we know the Viera are, using our words, pansexual and polyamorous, given that we don't know if one male mates with one specific female every time or with several to ensure at least one kit is born; and given that males don't develop sexual characteristics (including external genitalia) until after puberty, if any Viera pre-teen were to form an emotional/romantic connection to another they really wouldn't know the other's (or heck, their OWN) sex before puberty kicks in. We also don't know if they separate mating as a duty from romance, or tie sexual relationships to emotional connections. Basically, we know very little of Viera CULTURE and most of what we know is BIOLOGICAL, which needs not be the same thing.

One COULD take the previously mentioned quote to mean that Viera CAN indeed "bond" with a specific male and the Green Word allows them to share a "psychic" (for lack of a better word) connection even if they are physically apart. But any detail is strictly in headcanon territory for now.

ETA: Also, that specific lore would of course only apply to those living in the Woods; not to adventurers or those we find outside Vieran Villages, who are, by necessity, outcasts.

Because I know entirely too much on the subject: it is a proven fact of the natural world that sexually-reproducing species, especially those wired for recreational sex, engage in homosexual behavior (sometimes exclusive, sometimes not, so just like humans really). Said behavior, while not procreative, does strengthen the bonds between members of the same sex, contributing to the overall fitness of the herd as whole and, consequently, the continued evolution and survival of the species.

So I'd say yes definitely for females, but probably no for Word-following males if only because their Jedi training apparently leads to them interacting with nobody at all most of the time. (This will be amusing at 6.0 when ~80% of the gay male playerbase goes bunny.) Heterosexual monogamy is probably not really a thing (much like nunh), but depending on fertility rates and longevity, could be sustainable in some cases. All of this made more sense when males were supposed to be treated like they don't exist at all. Should've just gone with the Galka explanation...

tl;dr: it wouldn't be unnatural by any objective scientific metric, but we will also probably never get lore that says otherwise, regardless.

(A tale of forbidden romance between two wood warders would be totally up my alley though.)

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Should've just gone with the Galka explanation...

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That never stopped Galka Mayo, and it ain't gonna start any time soon!

Kids, don't google Galka Mayo.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Kids, don't google Galka Mayo.

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You have piqued my curiosity but my self-preservation instinct is yelling "DON'T DO IT!"

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Kids, don't google Galka Mayo.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/3ov9jW...WDCw/giphy.gif

I think it's just safe to assume there is a bunny version of Ganondorf out there considering this sounds suspiciously like the Gerudo situation.

Considering how aloof and elf-like the viera are, and how they seemed to treat mating like a business transaction, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole race were just asexual.

Ultimately, I don't think that SE is going to delve into viera sexuality unless Matsuno goes into it in a future Twitter lore dump. So however viera are in your head is how they are.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Considering how aloof and elf-like the viera are, and how they seemed to treat mating like a business transaction, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole race were just asexual.

Ultimately, I don't think that SE is going to delve into viera sexuality unless Matsuno goes into it in a future Twitter lore dump. So however viera are in your head is how they are.

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Honestly to me it would make some sense for a race that's long lived and doesn't have children as often as humanity to have lower sex drives in general. I wouldn't be surprised if viera just aren't as prone to such relationships in the same way humans are. Or, given the nature of the men stopping by briefly every few years, they might go through short cycles of such that don't linger.

Though none of this is concrete. Looking to nature could help some but these are fictional people of a fictional species and the rules of our evolutionary history doesn't necessarily apply.

Well, they have very faintly touched on Viera sexuality. The youngest of the three Viera that help you out in Rak'tika, the WHM one, she is WoLsexual as given away by the DRG one teasing her about pretending her staff was *ahem* and *ahem* and they were imagining that the WoL was *ahem* with them.

Doesn't almost all of the Viera lore people reference actually come from a different FF game and may or may not have any relevance here whatsoever?

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

Doesn't almost all of the Viera lore people reference actually come from a different FF game and may or may not have any relevance here whatsoever?

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One of the writers said on twitter that the "general settings" for the viera in Final Fantasy XIV are the same as in Final Fantasy XII/Tactics Advance

If there is any romance between Viera it really has to be between the women, since the men just don't see anyone ever.

I suppose you could have childhood friends trying to keep up a relationship on the rare occasions they can see each other, or secret lovers meeting in the forest, but that's about the only opportunities for men and women to meet. (Or men and men for that matter.)

They may also just see sex as the practical thing you do when a man finally visits the village, whether you like him or not, and romantic pairings are a separate concept altogether.

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Originally Posted by Shiro--Tsubasa

I was looking at Viera lore and it got me thinking. Wouldn't homosexuality be considered the norm with Heterosexuality being the very rare exception with their culture the way it is in regards to male and female interactions.

According to the lore, the males are never present except in the case of mating and picking up the young males and taking them away. The way it is described gives the sense that this practice is very dissociative with each other and the practice of mating unlike most other races is done as more of a duty to their tribe than an act of love. However we also know female Viera are not loveless beings. So isn't it possible that Viera women are more likely to develop romantic relationships with each other than they would males, with males develop relationships with other males to a lesser degree since males are solitary creatures by nature.

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Viera as a race are most likely based on the amazons. In XII, seeign how males and females live completely separately its almost a given that any romance for the most part would be same sex since the ybasically only see ppl of the same sex all day, and if the yhave a sex drive they will likely go for that if they do live in their villages. In XIV, female viera, much like the amazons are likely sapphic for the most part, and probably form families or relationships between women as they onyl see women excpet for mating, that seems to be purely practical and it is, by what we know of lore, not something romantic or 'pretty', just a thing done purely for reproductive purpouses. As for the male viera, I would say that it wouldnt be too far fetched that if 2+ wood warders guard close areas they might develop a friendship or see each other often, and I thin kit isnt out of this world that they would likely have some romantic connections sometimes, but I find it hard to belive that outside very specific exceptions male viera would form sentimental relationships with female vieras if they do live in the woods and follow their culture. Also, in Eorzea as a whole we basically know that sexuality isn't really a thing in the sense that, nobody is 'heterosexual' or 'homosexual' or 'bisexual', from what we've seen people are just people (how 2 ppl of the same gender can get married, how a gay couple were outcasts for being interracial, liekly not for being 2 males, how theres various female miqote that seem really close to each other etc.) who fall in love with ppl, and I would be surprised if viera differ that much from that, but seeing how isolated they are they might. Wonder if Matsuno will say something.
Also, keep in mind Yoshi P pretty much said theyre gonna 'retcon' male viera lore to justify them being playable, so things may have changed in viera society or the minstrel is just not a 1000% reliable narrator or smth along those lines.

It's not like that race was fleshed out that much to begin with; heck- fans since Final Fantasy Tactics Advance have unofficially fleshed out that race more then SE ever did, so I think SE has some wiggle room to change things and take the opportunity to redefine how they live, breed, and die.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

That never stopped Galka Mayo, and it ain't gonna start any time soon!

Kids, don't google Galka Mayo.

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After reading this post I looked it up and unabashedly read the entire thing.

I really love this thread, but I cheated and had my WoL spontaneously race change in character the first time she was summoned to the First (thanks exarch, good job there, right soul wrong body and all) but I do sometimes regret I don't get to really explore where she might have come from unless I did some IC retcons.

Regardless, she would have instantly fallen for my wife's lady miqo'te (now au'ra thanks to the same circumstances lol) anyway. I kind of view the Viera a lot like Night Elves in WoW. A society of (mostly) women spending super long lives together generally without men around? Being strictly het as a society is unlikely, and they probably don't really care for any distinction, a bit like how some ancient cultures on earth no one really batted an eye.

Gender is actually an interesting question in general, cuz honestly the way they're effectively genderless before puberty could lead to some interesting gender questioning for some of them. Body developing one way but they see themselves as the other (or neither or both) which also works great for me considering my own gender issues.

(I suppose I could have her explore who she is now still. Is there any good resource on Viera lore?)

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Originally Posted by SniperCT

I really love this thread, but I cheated and had my WoL spontaneously race change in character the first time she was summoned to the First (thanks exarch, good job there, right soul wrong body and all) but I do sometimes regret I don't get to really explore where she might have come from unless I did some IC retcons.

Regardless, she would have instantly fallen for my wife's lady miqo'te (now au'ra thanks to the same circumstances lol) anyway. I kind of view the Viera a lot like Night Elves in WoW. A society of (mostly) women spending super long lives together generally without men around? Being strictly het as a society is unlikely, and they probably don't really care for any distinction, a bit like how some ancient cultures on earth no one really batted an eye.

Gender is actually an interesting question in general, cuz honestly the way they're effectively genderless before puberty could lead to some interesting gender questioning for some of them. Body developing one way but they see themselves as the other (or neither or both) which also works great for me considering my own gender issues.

(I suppose I could have her explore who she is now still. Is there any good resource on Viera lore?)

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The Wandering Dramaturge on the airship in Kugane is a start. They live ~360 years, etc. Matsuno also said that pretty much everything we know about viera previously still applies here too. He also did a Q&A on male viera on twitter that someone translated and posted to reddit awhile back. Someone did ask him about how viera feel about gender if they feel like they should be one way or another and apparently they don't have conflicts and their society is just too different from ours in how they treat that.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

The Wandering Dramaturge on the airship in Kugane is a start. They live ~360 years, etc. Matsuno also said that pretty much everything we know about viera previously still applies here too. He also did a Q&A on male viera on twitter that someone translated and posted to reddit awhile back. Someone did ask him about how viera feel about gender if they feel like they should be one way or another and apparently they don't have conflicts and their society is just too different from ours in how they treat that.

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okay ty, that helps

Considering the most official artwork we have on male Viera shows four of them on a homosocial roadtrip a la FFXV, complete with Coleman camping stove, I'm going to maybe posit that the Dramaturge has no idea what he's talking about and everything we thought we knew about male Viera was a lie.

"You heading to the village?"

"Yeah. You should come, too. Petra always asks about you, and I think she's stopped buying that our patrol routes never line up."

"Oh, her. *shudders* Here, give her this, then. From me."

"A token of your affection?"

"A memento. Tell her I died."

"Training accident?"

"It's a cold, cruel world we live in."

"Yeah, sure it is..."

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Considering the most official artwork we have on male Viera shows four of them on a homosocial roadtrip a la FFXV, complete with Coleman camping stove, I'm going to maybe posit that the Dramaturge has no idea what he's talking about and everything we thought we knew about male Viera was a lie.

"You heading to the village?"

"Yeah. You should come, too. Petra always asks about you, and I think she's stopped buying that our patrol routes never line up."

"Oh, her. *shudders* Here, give her this, then. From me."

"A token of your affection?"

"A memento. Tell her I died."

"Training accident?"

"It's a cold, cruel world we live in."

"Yeah, sure it is..."

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Tbh the artwork makes me think that the pink haired and white haired guy are a couple, the middle one looks like a child and them two like his fathers. Also I assume the purple hair guy is part of their 'unit'

Personally I like thinking that Vieras have little interest or desire for sexual and/or romantic relationships. They view each other a brothers and sisters and the concept of mother and father are foreign and the closes thing to them would be "The Wood" which I'd their home but also so much more.

Now that's not to say that they can't have those kind of relationship just simply that most don't see a reason to seek them out.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

Doesn't almost all of the Viera lore people reference actually come from a different FF game and may or may not have any relevance here whatsoever?

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Didn't they literally spawn from, and eventually turn in to, the trees of their forest in 12? There was no males or sexual reproduction to speak of, if I recall right.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

"You heading to the village?"

"Yeah. You should come, too. Petra always asks about you, and I think she's stopped buying that our patrol routes never line up."

"Oh, her. *shudders* Here, give her this, then. From me."

"A token of your affection?"

"A memento. Tell her I died."

"Training accident?"

"It's a cold, cruel world we live in."

"Yeah, sure it is..."

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XD Headcanon accepted.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Tbh the artwork makes me think that the pink haired and white haired guy are a couple, the middle one looks like a child and them two like his fathers. Also I assume the purple hair guy is part of their 'unit'

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I just see close knit male friends hanging with the newbie. That younger one probably just got picked up from a village or is still learning the ropes of their lifestyle.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

Didn't they literally spawn from, and eventually turn in to, the trees of their forest in 12? There was no males or sexual reproduction to speak of, if I recall right.

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No, that's just some headcanon that got started on, of all places, TVTropes. The FFXII Ultimania mentions that Viera are so isolationist that men and women live in separate villages.

So I'm surprised nobody has brought up the end of the custom deliveries introduced a patch or two ago, and how thr dialogue in more than one part of the vii village changes drastically if you 're a male Viera. Kinda blows the entire theory of them being primarily ace put of the water

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Originally Posted by shadowclasper

So I'm surprised nobody has brought up the end of the custom deliveries introduced a patch or two ago, and how thr dialogue in more than one part of the vii village changes drastically if you 're a male Viera. Kinda blows the entire theory of them being primarily ace put of the water

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This was a necro'd thread, everyone except the last couple posts before yours were from 2 years ago.

I am interested in how the dialogue changes if you are male Viera, though? Please explain. I don't have a male viera alt.


Edit: .... Wait. How the heck did I end up necroing a 2 year old thread? I swear that was not on purpose. I must have followed a quote or sig chain to it and did not notice the dates. I don't even typically visit page two of the board unless I'm looking for something specific. Sorry if this has annoyed anyone. XD

You didn't. A post that got deleted did. I thought it was a dumb post but not as offensive to report it. If you are a male Viera and doing the final story for Arden the sister makes a comment that the WoL should also be more careful cause you know...

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Originally Posted by SannaR

You didn't. A post that got deleted did. I thought it was a dumb post but not as offensive to report it. If you are a male Viera and doing the final story for Arden the sister makes a comment that the WoL should also be more careful cause you know...

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I think there's also some dialogue changes around the vii village after you first wrrive when you're new and novel