Job lore and reworks

I've been thinking, with Endwalker around the corner, and so many alterations to job actions (also the ones we got across SB and ShB as well), how exactly they'll handle things?

Situations like Nocturnal Stance being reworked or removed, several Monk skills, the inevitable SMN rework. I wonder if they'll actually go back and rectify many job quests, because also thinking about it, those actually revolving around job actions kind of becomes detrimental to future alterations with the jobs.

That's probably the reason why from Stormblood and beyond we don't see the job quests centered around their actions.

I don’t think so. If they were they would of done it with Astro cards. I would be of highly surprised if they did.

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

I don’t think so. If they were they would of done it with Astro cards. I would be of highly surprised if they did.

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I see, yeah... I remember the astro cards effects explained with the quest dialogues, and now that everything is just a damage increase, it makes little sense, but still passable... Now, if they even remove Nocturnal Sect altogether, it will cause serious issues with a couple of quests that centers around this spell.

"Its power has the ability to quicken the senses, as well as provide added protection from the unknown" (From the AST quest that gives you Nocturnal Sect)

Maybe they can just - not - delete the spell and repurpose it as a damage reducing cooldown? I'm curious to see how it is going to be handled.

Remember in the ARR dragoon quest when we kill Estinein at the end then he is magically there in HW as our ally as if nothing happened. Was this ever explained? Did I miss something? I mean, we destroyed him to the point of having no body to bring back at the end of the lv. 50 post-fight CS.

Square needs to either rewrite the end of the ARR quest, make it so the dragoon is a random dragoon and not Estinien in the ARR quest, or explain WTF happens better at the end.

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Originally Posted by Septonyte

Remember in the ARR dragoon quest when we kill Estinein at the end then he is magically there in HW as our ally as if nothing happened. Was this ever explained? Did I miss something? I mean, we destroyed him to the point of having no body to bring back at the end of the lv. 50 post-fight CS.

Square needs to either rewrite the end of the ARR quest, make it so the dragoon is a random dragoon and not Estinien in the ARR quest, or explain WTF happens better at the end.

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I thought we just beat Estinien like he owed us money, and then he ran away when we stopped him accepting Nidhogg’s power? Alberic is there for the fight, so he’d say something if you put his son in the ground. But when you talk to him after, he just says something like he’s not sure where Estinien has gone.

They very heavily leaned into, "You didn't see his dead body, so he's not dead."

But yeah, we beat him in single combat and then hit him with the Spirit of Haldrath's Dragonfire Dive, direct hit and see him falling backwards. It's one of those situations where he was intended to be dead, akin to Foulques (whose dead body we never see, though we do see him fall off a cliff), but they just sorta gloss over it in Heavensward. In 1.0 it went much the same way, only Coerthas wasn't snowy, Estinien's skin was grey. There's no cutscene afterwards where Alberic muses on hoping Estinien is still out there, living.

The possession. The idea that Estinien stole the eye and was a fugitive. Alberic entirely. Oh well.

Sort of more on topic, I wonder how many baby lancers are confused by Foulques being able to use Ring of Thorns to create ice puddles in the level 30 Lancer fight. We haven't had Ring of Thorns in a long time.

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Originally Posted by Tensaihime

I thought we just beat Estinien like he owed us money, and then he ran away when we stopped him accepting Nidhogg’s power? Alberic is there for the fight, so he’d say something if you put his son in the ground. But when you talk to him after, he just says something like he’s not sure where Estinien has gone.

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I put this down as the reason for him being such a hardcore “kill Nidhogg and/or dragons in general” in HW. He’s making up for almost falling.

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Originally Posted by Tensaihime

I thought we just beat Estinien like he owed us money, and then he ran away when we stopped him accepting Nidhogg’s power? Alberic is there for the fight, so he’d say something if you put his son in the ground. But when you talk to him after, he just says something like he’s not sure where Estinien has gone.

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We beat him and he fled yes, nobody killed anyone during that job quest.

I think Estinien got spirited away by Nidhogg, rather than simply fleeing, but yeah. He didn't die there, just vanished for a while.

That whole plot did ideally need some tweaking as of Heavensward, though – mostly the thing with us somehow manifesting as the legendary Haldrath. But it also would have been better post-questline if Alberic said afterwards that Estinien had reappeared and seemed recovered from Nidhogg's possession, rather than that he was missing, since Aymeric was able to call on him just fine.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Sort of more on topic, I wonder how many baby lancers are confused by Foulques being able to use Ring of Thorns to create ice puddles in the level 30 Lancer fight. We haven't had Ring of Thorns in a long time.

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Why would they be confused? Enemies use skills we don't have all the time, and he's clearly been learning the art longer and knows more skills than we do.

If anything, a new player is less likely to know it was something that the class once had access to.

Thancred also uses the old Rogue venoms in Stormblood... the same expansion that removed them. I think they do it just to mess with people (meaning us).

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Thancred also uses the old Rogue venoms in Stormblood... the same expansion that removed them. I think they do it just to mess with people (meaning us).

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In fairness, the skills you have and the skills other NPCs learn are not one-to-one. NPCs can learn spells and the like that just aren't even obtainable to players (ie Mikoto (a conjuror) using Float in Delubrum Reginae)

Lore-wise, I do still miss Flash.

It made perfect sense for a Gladiator, since the point of gladiatorial matches is to be entertaining and, well, flashy. So a move that made aether emit a bright (but relatively harmless) light at the tip of your sword to catch everyone's attention is exactly the sort of thing a gladiator would come up with, and spread through the other gladiators.

Of course, I also understood the game-mechanical complaints against it. But Total Eclipse/Prominence doesn't really have that perfect backstory justification.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

Lore-wise, I do still miss Flash.

It made perfect sense for a Gladiator, since the point of gladiatorial matches is to be entertaining and, well, flashy. So a move that made aether emit a bright (but relatively harmless) light at the tip of your sword to catch everyone's attention is exactly the sort of thing a gladiator would come up with, and spread through the other gladiators.

Of course, I also understood the game-mechanical complaints against it. But Total Eclipse/Prominence doesn't really have that perfect backstory justification.

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Flash was my action to do while pacified on WAR. I also loved that since it wasn't damage based, the enmity went through targets that were invulnerable. Not often useful in that little scenario, but hey, it was a thing.

http://64.media.tumblr.com/6aed587fa...4vo1_1280.gifv

It was also an AoE Blind that worked wonders for mitigation on big pulls; the enmity gain was justified in-universe as the result of doing things to make the enemy hate you. Easiest way for a tank to generate hate was to try and explain aggro table management to freewheeling damage-dealers, though.:p

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Originally Posted by GoldStarz

In fairness, the skills you have and the skills other NPCs learn are not one-to-one. NPCs can learn spells and the like that just aren't even obtainable to players (ie Mikoto (a conjuror) using Float in Delubrum Reginae)

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The thing that is not very disclosed, not even by the Encyclopaedias, but something clearly perceived ingame, is how vast spellcasting (more specifically Arcanima) is.

While Thaumaturgy and Conjury seems to manipulate the basic elements for quite raw effects, Arcanima seems to revolve around all sorts of spells, even similar to how magic schools are in DnD - it seems to be the 'basic' spellcasting school in XIV, but its effects are seldom catalogued... You'd expect most of mage characters knowing at least the basics of Arcanima as well, especially if such character is a scholar-type.

One thing I wish they worked on was a bit more detail on all sorts of Aetherial arts, more specifically magick schools and what are the extents of each's capabilities.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

While Thaumaturgy and Conjury seems to manipulate the basic elements for quite raw effects

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Not necessarily. Thaumaturgy, for instance, is capable of much more than simply blasting stuff. The offices of the East Aldenard Trading Company in Kugane are warded against eavesdropping via thaumaturgy; presumably Lolorito hired the Thaumaturge's Guild for that job.

We as players simply don't see the various uses of all the schools of magic, due to game mechanical (and game design) constraints.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

Not necessarily. Thaumaturgy, for instance, is capable of much more than simply blasting stuff. The offices of the East Aldenard Trading Company in Kugane are warded against eavesdropping via thaumaturgy; presumably Lolorito hired the Thaumaturge's Guild for that job.

We as players simply don't see the various uses of all the schools of magic, due to game mechanical (and game design) constraints.

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Hm, I didn't remember that one detail.

Honestly, I wouldn't be mad if they dedicated a whole chapter in an Encyclopaedia 3 just to world-build magick - theory and application.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Hm, I didn't remember that one detail.

Honestly, I wouldn't be mad if they dedicated a whole chapter in an Encyclopaedia 3 just to world-build magick - theory and application.

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Same here. I would love a beefy segment in the next lorebook about how various aether-related stuff can be used for everyday use, and how aether manipulation is used for the non-combat stuff that they can't code into the game.

Well, I'd love a next lorebook regardless, but I get the impression Koji Fox is going to cry in a corner at the thought of putting yet another one out on top of his work.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

Same here. I would love a beefy segment in the next lorebook about how various aether-related stuff can be used for everyday use, and how aether manipulation is used for the non-combat stuff that they can't code into the game.

Well, I'd love a next lorebook regardless, but I get the impression Koji Fox is going to cry in a corner at the thought of putting yet another one out on top of his work.

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Honestly, he's been playing around too much with The Primals and we need a new Lore book that I can throw my money at. Love ffxiv's music, but I NEED a new Lore book