Dev team, there needs to be a tutorial for limit break

The amount of people i must explain where to find it or what it is, is astounding. And by the time you explain, the boss is already dead..
I am possibly being anal about always using it, but its something the party builds up, so why let it go to waste?

:confused: Was there ever a tutorial for it?

On the one hand, yes, maybe the game should explain LBs. On the other hand, if you give each role a LB tutorial, some newbies--of all roles--are going to think they should be LBing at times that they shouldn't. And then some of these newbies are going to argue, "the game told me I should use it."

LB is arguably the most context-sensitive action in the entire game, and it may be better to let players tell other players to use it because the game can't possibly teach them in all contexts how to use it correctly--and how to correctly leave it alone for someone else to use.

The limit break is fully explained when you hover over it.

When you first interact with a limit break, an Active Help window appears which explains it as well, including how to navigate to Actions & Traits to put it on your hotbar, with a picture.

What it doesn't explain is when to actually use it. SE can't really tell a tank not to use their limit break ever. You also have a choice between using the melee limit break on a boss or an AoE limit break on trash and in my opinion, it doesn't matter. We are so beyond the item level of content, that things die before even reaching LB2 in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The limit break is fully explained when you hover over it.

When you first interact with a limit break, an Active Help window appears which explains it as well, including how to navigate to Actions & Traits to put it on your hotbar, with a picture.

What it doesn't explain is when to actually use it. SE can't really tell a tank not to use their limit break ever. You also have a choice between using the melee limit break on a boss or an AoE limit break on trash and in my opinion, it doesn't matter. We are so beyond the item level of content, that things die before even reaching LB2 in the first place.

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Tank LB is def needed in some cases.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

Tank LB is def needed in some cases.

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Two, in roulette content. Against Alexander Prime, and in the Seat of Sacrifice. Only the second is mandatory for the MSQ.

I would at least like to see potency numbers on the tooltip so casters/ranged won't be too afraid to use it on big pulls.

This is something that might want to be included in a special tutorial dungeon. Something that's a Final Fantasy Mystic Quest themed section. Something optional for existing players. Required for new players at 30, and you get LOCKED INTO UNTIL YOU PASS IT NO MATTER WHAT if you use a skip/jump potion.

It should also explain every single marker that might get dropped on you... (and the nonstandard ones get FIXED, please)

Why though, its not like we have single player limit breaks....... and honestly when playing a tank you only have 1 place u would rlly use it, healer is just simple minded wait tlll no other choice but to lb 3 lol and dps well theres always atleast one other who will use it lol

So why bother unless they add player limit break and not party based

theres like 70% chance for you to never have the chance to use thing honestly

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Originally Posted by Roda

I would at least like to see potency numbers on the tooltip so casters/ranged won't be too afraid to use it on big pulls.

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The problem is that we either get yelled at for using it by melee players who wanted to use it on the boss and we "wasted" their big finisher, or we get yelled at for NOT using it because we expected to get yelled at for "wasting" it. I've gotten kicked out of parties for using an LB on a big pull before, so now I don't unless it's a double ranged group.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

The problem is that we either get yelled at for using it by melee players who wanted to use it on the boss and we "wasted" their big finisher, or we get yelled at for NOT using it because we expected to get yelled at for "wasting" it. I've gotten kicked out of parties for using an LB on a big pull before, so now I don't unless it's a double ranged group.

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Yeah, but with the numbers to cite, we can just go "ranged lb1 on 4 mobs > melee lb2 on 1 mob at 7%"

And if you really believe that will matter to the people who just think an LB is a big flashy thing to use on a boss, rather than a tactical skill to be used at the right time for maximum effect, you have far more faith in people than I do.

I miss Skillchains from FFXI. I know they wouldn't work here, but LBS really just feel kinda tacked on, used for an oh shit moment by the healer or for some extra damage near enrage. I wish they had a bit more use than that.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

On the one hand, yes, maybe the game should explain LBs. On the other hand, if you give each role a LB tutorial, some newbies--of all roles--are going to think they should be LBing at times that they shouldn't. And then some of these newbies are going to argue, "the game told me I should use it."

LB is arguably the most context-sensitive action in the entire game, and it may be better to let players tell other players to use it because the game can't possibly teach them in all contexts how to use it correctly--and how to correctly leave it alone for someone else to use.

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To be fair I rather people LB at the wrong time then hold on to it and never use it or use it at the end of a boss for flare. Since let us be real for the most part the general player base will not be using it to cheese mechanics and in those situations where you need an LB for a certain phase or a specific purpose that is when you can explain it rather quickly.

Tanks:
There's absolutely no reason to use this (aside from the occasional 8 man raid that requires cheesing strategy. And that's not often enough).

Healers:
Only really use is if your entire party is bad anyways with mechanics (which happens once in awhile)

DPS Melee/Ranged: This is the only one they really need to know about.

That said-- someone mentioned earlier that the game doesn't tell you when to use it. So players would just assume it would be okay to use it whenever possible. (Having 7 other brand new players in The Chrysalis is fun when LB3 is used before meteor room lol)

not only limit break. its alarming how few people read their skills.... isnt that like the first thing to do in a RPG?

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Originally Posted by Asari5

not only limit break. its alarming how few people read their skills.... isnt that like the first thing to do in a RPG?

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The first thing to do in any game is button mash and pretend you know what you're doing. :D

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Originally Posted by Asari5

not only limit break. its alarming how few people read their skills.... isnt that like the first thing to do in a RPG?

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I have noticed that a lot of players don't bother with the skills that increase dps, give faster casting or defensive buffs.

Limit break help has 2 problems. First, the Active Help is rather vague when it comes to explaining the entire party shares use of the Limit Break as opposed to each party member getting a separate Limit Break when the gauge fills (which a lot of new players who have noticed it exists assume).

Second, the Active Help for it pops up the first time the player enters Sastasha along with a couple of other active help windows related to parties and instanced group duties. What's happening at that point? The new player is ignoring all those pop-ups because they're trying to catch up to the rest of the group that sprinted off the moment the barrier dropped. That's a really bad time to be spamming the player with Active Help windows.

Moving all that information to digest to a Hall of Novice tutorial would be much better so the player can read at their own pace. Just add in something to tell the player they should consult with their party or other players on who should use the Limit Break and when.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

not only limit break. its alarming how few people read their skills.... isnt that like the first thing to do in a RPG?

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The problem with skills is they're rewritten every expansion (sometimes even mid-expansion, like we saw with MNK this time).

It's a waste of development time to program some sort of tutorial into the game for something that changes so frequently.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Two, in roulette content. Against Alexander Prime, and in the Seat of Sacrifice. Only the second is mandatory for the MSQ.

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It's been used in other content during early progression too. Oborrne Monastery used tank TB after defeating Ruination in the Ultima fight for the first few weeks.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

It's been used in other content during early progression too. Oborrne Monastery used tank TB after defeating Ruination in the Ultima fight for the first few weeks.

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I was there at launch and don't remember needing to use a tank LB for that fight. Alexander and SoS outright wipe you if you don't use it.

Never seen a Tank LB in Oborne Monastery either.

It would have been cool if they change up Limit Break more, in the past Bards used to have heal lb for example and were able to rezz the whole group. In other FF games you are able to choose what Limit Break you want to use, in FFXIV the content enforces one kinda LB for optimal play. You could add aoe ones for melees and single target ones for physical ranges, add TimeStop for Mages so you can choose which one you use in which content.

Small scale PvP could also profit from cooler animations than the tier 1 LB animations. Could be just faster LB3 animations, so it is easier to tell what is happening, because you really don't see aegis boon animation from tank lb1 every time.

and if you see people in normal content struggling just tell them to type /ac "Limit Break" , probably faster than to search the button on the x-th tab in the command menu

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Originally Posted by Asari5

not only limit break. its alarming how few people read their skills.... isnt that like the first thing to do in a RPG?

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Most of them likely are Black Mages that fall under it, due to their mechanics having also mechanics once Enochian comes into play with Fire and Ice IV.
And they still use Fire I or Transpose in their ST rotation in their 70's .

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I was there at launch and don't remember needing to use a tank LB for that fight. Alexander and SoS outright wipe you if you don't use it.

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I was in several runs where the healers at the time due to a likely combination of their own gear not being up to par to deal with the healing check during that phase and the gear of the DPS also being lower than it is now resulted in them not being able to keep up with the requirement and while not a wipe, we'd lose multiple party members, so the tanks would use the LB to keep the party alive. Though it was short lived as it didn't take long for people's gear to catch up.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

I was in several runs where the healers at the time due to a likely combination of their own gear not being up to par to deal with the healing check during that phase and the gear of the DPS also being lower than it is now resulted in them not being able to keep up with the requirement and while not a wipe, we'd lose multiple party members, so the tanks would use the LB to keep the party alive. Though it was short lived as it didn't take long for people's gear to catch up.

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Then you got unlucky, imo. This is the first I'm hearing of it and I never knew you could wipe at that point without Tank lb.

Anyways, lb is always going to be this source of contention and I believe this is due to what information players have gathered about it from other players vs experience. Experience tells you lb is mostly insignificant. Inexperience has you believe things like "you should save it only for healer lb3" or "leave it for melee" and you tend to stick to those beliefs until you get very experienced with the game.

Trial roulette earlier today reminded me of this thread.

Got inside a Laskshmi run, few sprouts in there, you know it's going to be hit or miss.

And i'm not sure if it was the DNC or the BRD, but one of the ranged DPS kept spamming LB1 as soon as it came up. How you can get up to Lakshmi and still misuse LB that much is a wonder to me.

Heaven forfend the tank hits the LB when there are two ranged DPS in the party ...

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Originally Posted by Rongway

On the one hand, yes, maybe the game should explain LBs. On the other hand, if you give each role a LB tutorial, some newbies--of all roles--are going to think they should be LBing at times that they shouldn't. And then some of these newbies are going to argue, "the game told me I should use it."

LB is arguably the most context-sensitive action in the entire game, and it may be better to let players tell other players to use it because the game can't possibly teach them in all contexts how to use it correctly--and how to correctly leave it alone for someone else to use.

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Why are we assuming that the only thing an LB tutorial could teach is to use LB immediately and without context?

The one that gets to me is "one player per job" PF's that don't touch lb3. Which in many cases is the only real advantage to not taking doubles. Even worse is "one per job" on things like Emerald EX where you don't even reach a lb3 regardless.

Other than that I really don't care that much if dps ignore lb. Dps melee limit breaks are somewhat overrated outside of the Chrysalis. They lock your melee for the animation and maybe shave a few seconds off the fight. Caster lb on dungeon trash is great though and certainly recommended.

Heal lb3 is amazing and underused. You don't have to hold it until you're the last player standing. At 3+ players dead it easily beats melee lb3. No weakness debuff, full health, instant result, no 8 sec Raise casts. Even the best players derp sometimes and an otherwise smooth run can go messy fast, so having a single button to undo all that is great.

Tank lb tends to be underused in Savage. Even a tank lb1 is solid raidwide mitigation (twice as much as Reprisal) and accessible fairly often. No reason not to consider it as potential party mitigation in organized groups.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Why are we assuming that the only thing an LB tutorial could teach is to use LB immediately and without context?

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A tutorial can't possibly give enough context that we won't still be arguing over it years from now.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

A tutorial can't possibly give enough context that we won't still be arguing over it years from now.

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It can, in the course of some 2 minutes or less of tutorial text overlay across some 20 minutes of other context-setting events (e.g., an actual dungeon run, a few guildhests, or couple new Halls of the Novice scenarios), provide every bit as much context as even an astute player would likely garner across their 1-80 experience.

I realize XIV may set our expectations very, very low, but good tutorials (even when used minimalisticly) do exist and can be integrated even into this game.

I don't normally do this, but I'm feeling rather lazy today.

Half-Life 2's Invisible Tutorial

and

Can We Make Better Tutorials for Complex Games?

Both by Game Maker's Toolkit


This isn't the only channel that goes into such depth and discussion on youtube, but is one that does it with a minimum of language violations.


In short, game tutorials, how any why they exist, and what makes you feel insulted when you are shown a really BAD one.