We need better moderation on the forums.

This place is becoming worse than ever. Every day there is a new troll post, and everyone falling for the bait.

Then there are toxic threads that just go on forever, and when you think they are finally off the top page, they get necro'd by bored people, who had no regard for the negativity that they bring.

Some things are fine to be negative about. Blue Mage, the gender gap of races, the hrothgar/viera hair crisis, broken jobs, ways to make the cycles of content more interesting beyond lore farming, criticisms of the relic steps, the housing crisis, and etc. can all be WONDERFUL places for criticism, because I do NOT want to see this community turn into a place where the devs do not listen to any form of feedback. We'd end up like WoW.. and as a player of that game in addition to this one, I do NOT want us to go in that direction..

But PLEASE we need some dang self control here, and some more moderation. This game has grown extremely big for its britches in the last two years, and the forums that I once found a lot more of a fun place to be, have absolutely exploded in negativity. It's starting to really change how I feel about this place, in a way that I am not used to.

I know some of you are probably going to remind me on this post about my past, and muck it up to hell with even more negativity. I expect that completely, but I plead with you to please try to have heart, and turn the other way. Make this community a space you want to be in. Spread more positivity. For every complaint you make, try to think of something GOOD to balance it. There is good in the world, and we can do better than be bitter.

I would also like to suggest that the moderation be improved in game too, because it feels like a lot of bad behavior is getting a bit out of hand, and players are struggling to deal with it all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianFatale

have absolutely exploded in negativity.

---

What's so negative about this forum? I really don't understand.

Not all negativity is bad, and not all positivity is good. You need negativity as much as you need positivity. If you only had one, this forum would become stagnant and useless. Things can be not okay, and that's okay.

I don't think they will ignore the forums like some other game developers. It's routine that the development team check the forums, but they don't reply in most of them except in Localization and Support. I imagine there are a lot of reasons for that, like not interfering with feedback and that they don't have time to waste like we do. The community team reads and communicates it, like the accessibility change in the alliance raid that just happened for example.

I think that if you look at a place like reddit, feedback works best when people aren't moderated and censored all of the time so that seems like the approach here. Can you give your true feedback if you have to fear it will be moderated?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I would also like to suggest that the moderation be improved in game too, because it feels like a lot of bad behavior is getting a bit out of hand, and players are struggling to deal with it all.

---

The moderation in the game is good. If something is getting out of hand then it's probably because nobody reported it. They cannot do anything if they don't know about it.

Although this forum isn't perfect, I think it's a lot better for discussion about the game than the likes of Twitter and Reddit. For starters, we don't have to worry about people being downvoted for having the 'wrong' opinion. We also don't have to worry about seeing content that we do not wish to see if we happen to click on a poster's profile/thread since anything outright inappropriate is dealt with swiftly by the moderation team.

I'd like to see the site itself updated at some point, though. Yet for what it is, I think it serves its purpose fairly well. At some point, it's up individuals to pick and choose which posters and threads they engage with.

Forum's fine.

What you're asking for is an echo chamber.

I get what you mean. It can be very irritating to deal with the same over-exaggerated complaints, middling nit-picking, and the irritatingly common subversive attention seeker.
But it's honestly been more or less the same sense its inception. People looking to fix everything they see as an issue to make the game shine in their eyes. Just put the problem people on your ignore list and try to vibe on your own terms.

No thanks :3

Well. I see what you mean, there are a few trolls who imagine they are funny when they are in fact both boring and toxic. Sadly some people find usefull to reply when these subjects should be ignored and fall dead.

This said... they know what they do, they don't cross the line. So moderation can't do much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianFatale

...This game has grown extremely big for its britches in the last two years, and the forums that I once found a lot more of a fun place to be, have absolutely exploded in negativity. It's starting to really change how I feel about this place, in a way that I am not used to. ...

---

If you find the forum affecting you, it's time to log out and rest from it for a while. The game is still there, still playable, still enjoyable. A rest from the forums will help you regain balance. Take care of your health, and take things in moderation.

I'll be starting to worry if official forums will become like Reddit in terms of toxicity. But nowadays, official forums are still fine.

I don't think that it's bad at all, not in comparison to pretty much every other forum.
With that said the mods should be less literal about the rule applications imo.

Like you can say bigoted shit as much as you want but it doesn't seem like you'll get in trouble for it, but then if you snap even once even if it's directed at the person being bigoted and you insult them directly you get in trouble.
It's like a super robotic way of moderating and not very nuanced.

Moderation for negativity, no it's fine.

Moderation for worthless troll threads? Yes please. I feel like Reddit is a better place for discussion on this game because half the posts on this forum are troll threads.

Do we even have a community manager? I've never seen them interact on these forums. I'm not sure why square neglects these forums so much, back when I worked in community for a AAA MMO 10 years ago, a large portion of my job was interaction with the community via forums and moderation.

I think the main problem is the increase in trolling more than anything. Admittedly, I've engaged them more than I should have hence I've ceased to. But yeah I think community-wise it's fine, it's just troll-wise it's getting silly because as you say, these threads go on-and-on and many are meant to stir the pot and do so.

Let me translate this post: people don't say that FFXIV is the best mmorpg ever without flaws, so we must destroy them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cetek14

Let me translate this post: people don't say that FFXIV is the best mmorpg ever without flaws, so we must destroy them.

---

Actually OP clarify this in his first post and showed support for people posting criticism about that game, because it's a good thing for this game.

What he seems to be referring more to is the trolling and some of the toxicity, which mainly comes out of it, because has nothing to do with valid criticism about the game's flaws.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caurcas

Not all negativity is bad, and not all positivity is good.

---

Amen.

The best feedback players can give is constructive feedback. As thats usefull. Positive or negative doesn't matter..

There's a big difference between for example just saying the combat system in this game is terrible. And saying saying I don't like the games combat because it feels to spammy and weightless..

Offer some justification for your opinions and it makes your feedback positive or negative much more valuable.

The biggest issue at the moment is people seem to get butt hurt about anytbing they disagree with.

Kind of like how the op makes a list of things that ar eok to criticise about and anything not on that list is unacceptable to criticise..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dzian

Kind of like how the op makes a list of things that ar eok to criticise about and anything not on that list is unacceptable to criticise..

---

The "etc." to implies the list were examples and OP also said criticism about the game is a good thing.

I am pretty sure this thread is about the non constructive stuff you describe, not certain criticisms being off limits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thi

Moderation for negativity, no it's fine.

Moderation for worthless troll threads? Yes please. I feel like Reddit is a better place for discussion on this game because half the posts on this forum are troll threads.

Do we even have a community manager? I've never seen them interact on these forums. I'm not sure why square neglects these forums so much, back when I worked in community for a AAA MMO 10 years ago, a large portion of my job was interaction with the community via forums and moderation.

---

Hah, have you ever been to the XIV reddit? Its worse than this place. Nothing but fanart, coddling, and "wow this game is better than WoW, gibe updoots plz".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saefinn

The "etc." to implies the list were examples and OP also said criticism about the game is a good thing.

I am pretty sure this thread is about the non constructive stuff you describe, not certain criticisms being off limits.

---

Pretty sure this whole thread was started due to the very poorly veiled trolls threads that have a 0.0000000000001% real issue connection. And even then most of them(preventing unsynced savage clears for example) are so ridiculously badly formed that the OP of those ones should just stop posting about garbage like that where nobody really cares how people got their clears, since if they don't/can't perform in current tier, they will be swiftly kicked from parties/statics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Some things are fine to be negative about. Blue Mage, the gender gap of races, the hrothgar/viera hair crisis

---

10/10 bait

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cetek14

Let me translate this post: people don't say that FFXIV is the best mmorpg ever without flaws, so we must destroy them.

---

Let me translate this post: I didn't read the OP.

This forum has the tools you need to ignore the trolls here. Everyone has control over what they do in their life. So if they reply to troll posts? Oh well. You just move on.

Glad those who come to the forums are a minuscule portion of the playerbase.

A while back, I made a response to a topic similar to this, so instead of simply rephrasing the stuff I've already said, I might as well just copy+paste the original message.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wind-Krysvein

I've been wondering about this a lot myself.

I played the game way back in 2013, and have followed it since the days of 1.0, and I can say for absolute certain that dev/rep communication used to be miles ahead of what it is now. The forums feel like a lawless wasteland at this point.

Honestly, I'd even be okay with the reps just popping in to reaffirmed us "we're constantly reading and gauging player reactions, so keep posting even if we don't respond directly" but even that seems like a far-off dream at this point.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianFatale

This place is becoming worse than ever. Every day there is a new troll post, and everyone falling for the bait.

Then there are toxic threads that just go on forever, and when you think they are finally off the top page, they get necro'd by bored people, who had no regard for the negativity that they bring.
[...]
But PLEASE we need some dang self control here, and some more moderation. This game has grown extremely big for its britches in the last two years, and the forums that I once found a lot more of a fun place to be, have absolutely exploded in negativity.
[...]
There is good in the world, and we can do better than be bitter.

---

Be the change you want to see!
Join me, and let's make more positive threads and threads that focus on sincere community engagement~
Help people! Discuss ideas! There is much good we can do!



Edit:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wind-Krysvein

I played the game way back in 2013, and have followed it since the days of 1.0, and I can say for absolute certain that dev/rep communication used to be miles ahead of what it is now. The forums feel like a lawless wasteland at this point.

---

I've been thinking about this, and I came back to post about it (and on another thread), but I appear to have hit my post limit for the day.
I wasn't around here back in 1.0, but the post limit serves as a reminder about how lawless the forums actually really used to be. I wonder how much the forums are actually worse off now a days with our few resident pot-stirers, and how much is just looking back with rose colored glasses.

Also, Blindheart I'm sorry I can't respond in your thread.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...of-life-change
If you somehow see this, goosing is in the action and traits menu at the very bottom in Extra.

I think these forums are very well behaved to be honest, especially compared to the rest of the Internet. If you see a thread you think is just bait then ignore it, you don't have to get the popcorn out and read it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Some things are fine to be negative about. Blue Mage, the gender gap of races, the hrothgar/viera hair crisis, broken jobs, ways to make the cycles of content more interesting beyond lore farming, criticisms of the relic steps, the housing crisis, and etc. can all be WONDERFUL places for criticism, because I do NOT want to see this community turn into a place where the devs do not listen to any form of feedback. We'd end up like WoW.. and as a player of that game in addition to this one, I do NOT want us to go in that direction..

---

I don't really have an opinion or care about the larger topic of this conversation, but I just wanted to point out how silly this is. It's okay to be negative about these specific things that are issues you care about, but being negative about anything else is bad?

I just want to say thank you to those that are being positive toward me on this post, and to those that may not agree, but are still not resorting to negativity. This post went a long a lot better than I had hoped. In truth, I had made versions of this for a couple of days, but kept being too afraid to say what was in my heart. You proved my fears wrong about posting this, and for that I am humbled.

Hope your days are bright and wonderful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I just want to say thank you to those that are being positive toward me on this post, and to those that may not agree, but are still not resorting to negativity. This post went a long a lot better than I had hoped. In truth, I had made versions of this for a couple of days, but kept being too afraid to say what was in my heart. You proved my fears wrong about posting this, and for that I am humbled.

Hope your days are bright and wonderful.

---

We definitely need better moderation. People on the forums are now constantly trolling people by telling them they're a troll. And now there are trolls saying the trolls telling people they are trolls are trolls. It's troll all the way down and that's because everyone is negative towards real logic and common sense.

I just ignore threads that I don't like, I mean moderation is fine, but is the forum really that bad right now? I just see people debating, and having crazy takes sure, but that is not really bad. What a forum is for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Venandi

We definitely need better moderation. People on the forums are now constantly trolling people by telling them they're a troll. And now there are trolls saying the trolls telling people they are trolls are trolls. It's troll all the way down and that's because everyone is negative towards real logic and common sense.

---

Im glad i bought this game before read forums, cause here its so mutch negativity about the game...

hows game in forums: 3/10
hows game in players self experience: 10/10

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fellgon

Im glad i bought this game before read forums, cause here its so mutch negativity about the game...

hows game in forums: 3/10
hows game in players self experience: 10/10

---

If you watch the forums for a while, it's a small knot of certain players making a big negative impression while the rest of us despair that SE is happy for the forum to operate this way. But yes, the game is in a much better state than a glance at the forum suggests.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

If you watch the forums for a while, it's a small knot of certain players making a big negative impression while the rest of us despair that SE is happy for the forum to operate this way. But yes, the game is in a much better state than a glance at the forum suggests.

---

Thing to keep in mind about the internet at least in regards to English forums is that the obnoxious people are the noisiest and behave in this way in an attempt to convince people they are the majority when the reality is they're always a minority and in most of those cases a very small minority of the community.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Thing to keep in mind about the internet at least in regards to English forums is that the obnoxious people are the noisiest and behave in this way in an attempt to convince people they are the majority when the reality is they're always a minority and in most of those cases a very small minority of the community.

---

thanks god! I hope what you said be true!

The forums are always where the worst elements of any games community all gather together to be awful. I say just enjoy the show and even join in on the fun.

If you want to have real conversations or make friends do it in the game; MMORPGs are basically just one big social media platform by themselves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fellgon

Im glad i bought this game before read forums, cause here its so mutch negativity about the game...

hows game in forums: 3/10
hows game in players self experience: 10/10

---

Someone I know posted a pic of their FC house on Reddit because they were new and proud and happy that they managed to put it all together.
She got instantly downvoted into oblivion and people in the comment section were extremely rude that she dared post something that wasn't another meme.
People on the reddit act like they're these great intellectuals who only want the reddit to be about '' important '' issues and matters with the game, and they're extremely antagonistic to anyone who dares to post art, cosplay or ask any questions.
Meanwhile they just sit around shitposting the same memes over and over again and complain about people who don't play the game like they do...
And if you want to post cosplay of yourself and you're a woman get ready for the whole comment section commenting about how attractive/ unattractive you are in a really negative or creepy way and nitpicking every little detail.

It's like you say the, the ingame experience is like an alternate reality.
The forum and reddit experience is just horrible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Thing to keep in mind about the internet at least in regards to English forums is that the obnoxious people are the noisiest and behave in this way in an attempt to convince people they are the majority when the reality is they're always a minority and in most of those cases a very small minority of the community.

---

This reminds me of some Twitter stats I saw a while back.
An extremely tiny minority like 10% of users make up for 80% of the tweets.

And yet they seem so loud and more important than they really are.

I mean I think the mods are doing a fine job here. There has been an increase of hate speech recently, but I'm giving the mods time. They can't fix everything at a moments notice.



~~Good Luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Someone I know posted a pic of their FC house on Reddit because they were new and proud and happy that they managed to put it all together.
She got instantly downvoted into oblivion and people in the comment section were extremely rude that she dared post something that wasn't another meme.
People on the reddit act like they're these great intellectuals who only want the reddit to be about '' important '' issues and matters with the game, and they're extremely antagonistic to anyone who dares to post art, cosplay or ask any questions.
Meanwhile they just sit around shitposting the same memes over and over again and complain about people who don't play the game like they do...
And if you want to post cosplay of yourself and you're a woman get ready for the whole comment section commenting about how attractive/ unattractive you are in a really negative or creepy way and nitpicking every little detail.

It's like you say the, the ingame experience is like an alternate reality.
The forum and reddit experience is just horrible.



This reminds me of some Twitter stats I saw a while back.
An extremely tiny minority like 10% of users make up for 80% of the tweets.

And yet they seem so loud and more important than they really are.

---

I saw a thread other day here in forum asking players to take a look in theyr art, very amazing art indeed, i cant draw as good as them!