Male Viera stuff from Matsuno

https://reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/...a_provided_by/

Strictly speaking a lot of this was already said by the Wandering Dramaturge back in Stormblood, but there's a bit more detail here and some things are new.

Well, that bit about Viera genitalia is not at all what I expected would be the case. I guess they are rabbits, after all, so it makes... some sense. It's a bit of a mindscrew to imagine, though, and I'm not sure I even want to.

EDIT: Gods, though, trying to read that thread is giving me a headache. I think the point I mentally checked out was when someone claimed that the Viis were genetically engineered by the Ronka, which is not only ridiculous but also provably wrong via the Qitari storyline.

Just raises more questions than it answers feels like.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

Well, that bit about Viera genitalia is not at all what I expected would be the case. I guess they are rabbits, after all, so it makes... some sense. It's a bit of a mindscrew to imagine, though, and I'm not sure I even want to.

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I'd seen in a documentary some time ago that there's an actual intersex condition where someone can be genetically male but appears female at birth and won't develop until puberty - so it's not as implausible as it immediately sounds. Whether the writers are aware of this or it's a happy coincidence, it's a good enough explanation for me.

I do have to wonder what the whole business would do to their mindset though - growing up knowing they're going to have to take up very strict gender roles but not having any idea which one they'll get. And are children thought of as genderless or is everyone considered female by default, until someone develops as a male?

Would they even have a concept of gender stereotypes or is it just "I am a man so I live alone in the woods", "I am a woman so I live in the village", and what the genders do is whatever they need to survive in their designated places?

And what sort of mental adjustment would it be to leave the forest and encounter other cultures?

On the one hand, despite (or because of) their androgynous appearance they might be very aware of presenting as the right gender, because their culture places such importance on it - "I am a man and I am not alone in the woods, so how am I supposed to indicate this? Dress a particular way?"

Or it could go entirely the other way - "I am not living alone in the woods, so I should act like the village-dwelling gender."

Huh, so Viera are literally intersex... and now wikipedia made me read about Sambia people. Maybe that's where part of the inspiration came from... a bit of a content warning though. D:

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I do have to wonder what the whole business would do to their mindset though - growing up knowing they're going to have to take up very strict gender roles but not having any idea which one they'll get. And are children thought of as genderless or is everyone considered female by default, until someone develops as a male?

Would they even have a concept of gender stereotypes or is it just "I am a man so I live alone in the woods", "I am a woman so I live in the village", and what the genders do is whatever they need to survive in their designated places?

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The entire "8/10 children are born female, yet we subject the few males to a brutal rite of passage from which many perish, so they can try to survive alone in the woods and possibly come back to mate every few years, ensuring Viera don't die out" is so... flawed?

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Originally Posted by BunnyChain

The entire "8/10 children are born female, yet we subject the few males to a brutal rite of passage from which many perish, so they can try to survive alone in the woods and possibly come back to mate every few years, ensuring Viera don't die out" is so... flawed?

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Yeah, that bugs me too and I don't think they should have included both those ideas together. Either have the race predominantly female OR culturally require the men to be banished into the jungle, but not both together. That just seems like a way to ensure your civilisation dies out.

But, given that it is in place, it's probably going to be a common character origin story for male Viera that they decided the whole thing is madness and either they're going to serve the tribe better by not dying alone in the middle of nowhere, or they just want nothing to do with the entire system.

really seems like survival of the fittest to me clearly if the male died he was not worthy to pass on his gene's anyway of course this concept don't actually work any civilization ruled by this concept will eventually implode as history has taught us

heck we saw it in the gaming world with wildstar

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Yeah, that bugs me too and I don't think they should have included both those ideas together. Either have the race predominantly female OR culturally require the men to be banished into the jungle, but not both together. That just seems like a way to ensure your civilisation dies out.

But, given that it is in place, it's probably going to be a common character origin story for male Viera that they decided the whole thing is madness and either they're going to serve the tribe better by not dying alone in the middle of nowhere, or they just want nothing to do with the entire system.

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Well a Viera player character is by definition going against their culture just by being playable, since their culture is to stay in Golmore forever and leaving the forest is equivalent to exiling yourself from the tribe. In that regard a male Viera deciding the gender roles aren't for them makes total sense, since they're already breaking other taboos just by coming to Eorzea.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Yeah, that bugs me too and I don't think they should have included both those ideas together. Either have the race predominantly female OR culturally require the men to be banished into the jungle, but not both together. That just seems like a way to ensure your civilisation dies out.

But, given that it is in place, it's probably going to be a common character origin story for male Viera that they decided the whole thing is madness and either they're going to serve the tribe better by not dying alone in the middle of nowhere, or they just want nothing to do with the entire system.

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The impression I get from Viera lore is that it's mostly just an excuse to have a race of sexy bunny girls, I don't think a lot of serious thought was put into having their society make sense.

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Originally Posted by _Koneko_

really seems like survival of the fittest to me clearly if the male died he was not worthy to pass on his gene's anyway of course this concept don't actually work any civilization ruled by this concept will eventually implode as history has taught us

heck we saw it in the gaming world with wildstar

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It might be imploding, the sudden appearance of loads of Viera males (and females I suppose) into the wider world would seem to indicate such, but given the races extended lifespans the implosion is in slow motion from our perspective.

I suppose it at least makes more sense than the reverse would. A handful of men could potentially impregnate many women during their infrequent visits, and they do live long lives, but yeah the whole thing doesn't feel very well thought out.

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Originally Posted by PangTong

The impression I get from Viera lore is that it's mostly just an excuse to have a race of sexy bunny girls, I don't think a lot of serious thought was put into having their society make sense.

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Sure the lore ultimately exists to support the existence of a race of sexy bunny girls, but that doesn't mean they don't put any effort into explaining why. They do seem to have put a decent amount of thought into it - they just put two different thoughts at once as to why the men might not be around when either one would work as the full explanation by itself.

With them promoted to playable, it actually ends up making conversely more sense that men would abandon the Wood entirely.

"I have to leave the village? Uh, okay, but I guess as long as we men stick together-- Say what now?"

It may even be retconned as a fairly recent (last decade or two) trend, what with refugees fleeing the Empire every which way and bringing their dirty cultural contamination with them (this is sarcasm). Unless it's been happening all along and they were simply mistaken for Viera women or Elezen boys with funny hats.

I don't think he's saying "male and females are literally EXACTLY the same until puberty", I think what he's saying is that "their FEATURES are indistinguishable, as are their names", so you wouldn't know if you were talking to a little girl or a little boy, but THEY (and I'm sure their parents) would technically know. I think the big difference is that they don't make a point of distinguishing them in their culture, until they're old enough to carry their given "role" I suppose. I would imagine this is to ensure that, male or female, they all carry the same values and sense of responsibility, as opposed to "men are the fighters, women are the caretakers" which is common in most societies.

In any case, definitely interesting.

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Originally Posted by Terin

I don't think he's saying "male and females are literally EXACTLY the same until puberty", I think what he's saying is that "their FEATURES are indistinguishable, as are their names", so you wouldn't know if you were talking to a little girl or a little boy, but THEY (and I'm sure their parents) would technically know. I think the big difference is that they don't make a point of distinguishing them in their culture, until they're old enough to carry their given "role" I suppose. I would imagine this is to ensure that, male or female, they all carry the same values and sense of responsibility, as opposed to "men are the fighters, women are the caretakers" which is common in most societies.

In any case, definitely interesting.

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No... If you clicked the link and read it, he says they look the same before puberty even when naked.

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Q: "There is no way to distinguish between them" so that means we can't tell their sex even if they were naked?
Y: Yes, exactly

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