Addons Discussion

The reasion for this post is to open a discussion thats not easy to solve, but that happens inside parts of the community.

We all know that addons are agains ToS but SE turns a blind eye to some of them like ACT, Waymark tool, ReShade, etc...
most of them are used for almost every PC players and we know that Console players can't have access to it and as far as you dont use them to harass other player you'll be fine with them.

Recently i heard of the ping pddon that allow players to double weave at any latency that is a big problem since it can be seen as cheating because it change how the games behave(At least that's how i see).
On the otherside it could be seen as something to close the gap between players with high latency and low latency.

I don't want to point fingers and say whats wrong or not, so i do would like to know whats everyones toughts about it, and also to know if theres any channel where we can know how the dev team feels about tools like that.

Addons for XIV are getting more sofisticated as the game grows and turning a blind eye may be harmful to game.



--Tried to fit this post on Feedback are but its filled with GM feedback(and thats ok) so i feared that no one would see it--

--If theres another proper place to post this just give me the direction, thanks in advance--

An addon that that allows players to double weave at any latency??
That sounds crazy!
How does it work?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ItMe

How does it work?

---

Can't say for sure, for what i understood it changes some number to make so the OGCDs can be pressed earlier inside the time it supposed to be,
but im a PLD 90% of the time so even with high latency(190-210) im good.

I can see that this could be game changing for MCHs and MNKs tho

It lowers the time the client forces an animation lock on your character after executing a gcd. You're supposed to tune it to your ping, but nothing stops you from completely disabling it

That sounds a bit.... Cheaty....

The only mod that has an official pass is reshade. Everything else is nono.

3rd party mods are not allowed in this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

That sounds a bit.... Cheaty....

The only mod that has an official pass is reshade. Everything else is nono.

---

Yes it does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

That sounds a bit.... Cheaty....

---

Regardless of whether it's allowed or not I don't think it feels very much like "cheating" if it's to attain something someone with a better ping can get

It's more like a workaround for janky netcode

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ItMe

An addon that that allows players to double weave at any latency??
That sounds crazy!
How does it work?

---

When you use a skill, the client will set an animation lock, preventing you from performing another action for its duration. When the server acknowledges your action and you receive that acknowledgement, the animation lock will reset back to its original value, which is a completely nonsensical move on SE's part. What the addon does is deduct your ping from the remaining duration when the acknowledgement is received.

This is something the game should already do, the addon would not exist if SE fixed this issue with animation locks. The tool still doesn't let you weave oGCDs faster than a 0 ping environment would, it simply makes the game's animation lock behave as if you were playing with 0 ping.

As a console and pc player both, I've always advocated banning gameplay related things like ACT and this Ping tool is another cheater type ones in favour of giving more information and eliminating the problems in first place.

In this- I understand the ping tool's intention. Animations locks for some moves are horrible like stardiver and pots, which is why SE should unify and lower animation locks durations or alternatively, design job kits so that there's plenty of time for weaving. Looking at white mage and summoner for example

It could provide an advantage to non-console players in areas such as PvP, which would be "cheating".

This isn't Rift or WoW, with their built-in addon APIs. There are no built-in addon APIs because a good chunk of the player-base doesn't actually play the game using a PC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

Regardless of whether it's allowed or not I don't think it feels very much like "cheating" if it's to attain something someone with a better ping can get

It's more like a workaround for janky netcode

---

Except it's adjusting skill timers. That is not cool.

If SE adjusted ogcd timers that's one thing, and I would advocate for that to make it more friendly to people with higher ping, but this? No.

Because of a large part of the playerbase are on console, XIV already gives extra attention to quality of life for ingame menus and systems, things that in WoW you need to rely on Addons to measure your enmity for exemple.
i wish that time to time we could get a letter from the producer talking about their toughts about some of them.
Specially this ping addon since netcode is what it is and excludes high latency players from playing with certain jobs at a ""competitive level""

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Recon1o6

As a console and pc player both, I've always advocated banning gameplay related things like ACT

---

https://i.postimg.cc/V6z3076q/1615728622150.gif

it will end when we bring cid a flight unit and have him reverse engineer it so we can get a mount like the Regalia we didn't get the weapons which was disappointing ... so they should give us the mount

That sounds completely like cheating

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Recon1o6

As a console and pc player both, I've always advocated banning gameplay related things like ACT

---

In an MMO measuring your DPS is a thing and even though its not built in-game players that want to play at a high skill level will aways find a way to see if they're optimal, but i don't agree with some other features like call out for simples mechanics,
have experienced players on clear parties when some maintenance happened or the 'callout bots' weren't working on that specifc day and these could'nt even do basic mechancis of the fight because they never actually understood how to do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sove92

When you use a skill, the client will set an animation lock, preventing you from performing another action for its duration. When the server acknowledges your action and you receive that acknowledgement, the animation lock will reset back to its original value, which is a completely nonsensical move on SE's part. What the addon does is deduct your ping from the remaining duration when the acknowledgement is received.

This is something the game should already do, the addon would not exist if SE fixed this issue with animation locks. The tool still doesn't let you weave oGCDs faster than a 0 ping environment would, it simply makes the game's animation lock behave as if you were playing with 0 ping.

---

... You can set it to go below 0 ping equivalence. This is one of the things that the pvp bots were doing.

Wait...
On a good day with favorable conditions I've occasionally been able to squeeze in a triple weave without clipping. So... would something like this just effortlessly allow a player to effortlessly triple weave whenever they want? Jesus Christ, something like that would really transform what/how much certain jobs stuff into their burst windows.

I'm certain that addons of any time are completely forbidden since the TOS dictates so.

Ignoring the whole "All Add-ons are against the ToS," even ACT got slapped down when it started adding things the devs considered too cheaty. I think it was a thing where it would automatically place and move around markers as the fights went on, which definitely went outside of what was allowed. Devs put a stop to that one quick.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilenya

Ignoring the whole "All Add-ons are against the ToS," even ACT got slapped down when it started adding things the devs considered too cheaty. I think it was a thing where it would automatically place and move around markers as the fights went on, which definitely went outside of what was allowed. Devs put a stop to that one quick.

---

That wasn't ACT, that was another illegal 3rd party tool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MPK

That wasn't ACT, that was another illegal 3rd party tool.

---

Fair enough, everything I was seeing was that it was something built into ACT. Either way, point stands, doing things that actively change how the game works is a no-go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilenya

Fair enough, everything I was seeing was that it was something built into ACT. Either way, point stands, doing things that actively change how the game works is a no-go.

---

Yeah ACT doesn't have any built in things to mess with the client, everything including some actually illegal mods that RPers use are some other 3rd party tools. I'm just surprised this game doesn't have an anti cheat like literally every other game out there that stops modding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MPK

Yeah ACT doesn't have any built in things to mess with the client, everything including some actually illegal mods that RPers use are some other 3rd party tools. I'm just surprised this game doesn't have an anti cheat like literally every other game out there that stops modding.

---

Wouldn't that stop ACT anyways, because it's pulling information that, while readily available, I doubt is being grabbed by literally taking down what is in the Battle Log?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilenya

Wouldn't that stop ACT anyways, because it's pulling information that, while readily available, I doubt is being grabbed by literally taking down what is in the Battle Log?

---

It reads network packets so it doesn't modify the game code at all

So if using the ping tool inside the windows where it only simulates if you are in the same region as the Data Center would be acceptable in any scenario? If it changes how the client comunicates with the server how aren't those accounts flagged yet?
I dont touch my MCH since early SB cause of ping issues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeoDivinity

So if using the ping tool inside the windows where it only simulates if you are in the same region as the Data Center would be acceptable in any scenario? If it changes how the client comunicates with the server how aren't those accounts flagged yet?
I dont touch my MCH since early SB cause of ping issues.

---

As far as I understand, its because its undetectable unless you use it to effectively have 0/negative ping.

Sove92's description on the first page explains why. When you use a skill, a 500ms animation lock begins and an acknowledgement to the server is sent. the 500ms begins counting down client side, but when the server sends back an acknowledgement request, the 500ms lock resets and begins counting down again, meaning the delay between using two OGCDs is 500ms + your ping.

What the tool does is instead of resetting it back to 500ms when your client receives the acknowledgement, it sets it to 500ms - your ping to simulate little or no ping, or a pre-determined value you can set. (Which is how the game should be handling it, by all rightfulness, plenty of other games use a similar system to handle wild ping differences.) So if someone has say, 150 ping, their total time between OGCDs is 650ms. But if that person uses the tool to drop the response time by 100ms, their client would look no different to the server than someone who has 50 ping, since both the 50ping guy and the 3rd party tool guy would be sending OGCD requests to the server in 550ms intervals, which makes them indistinguishable.

So its much akin to other 3rd party things like ACT; as long as the person isn't being stupid and setting the value in such a way the server would report their client has negative ping, it's impossible to detect it because it all happens clientside.

Honestly though, given the clips I've seen of this in discords, I'm more flabbergasted Square hasn't done something like this officially yet. The tool shows its possible, it seems like a huge QoL to try and implement officially into the game.

I would be wary about using it since it does modify the game, so a ban is more likely than using ACT, but I don't view it as cheating. It doesn't give the user an unfair advantage, it gives the user the same advantage someone right next to the servers has. Mch is well known for being latency locked at high end content as you lose considerable dps with high ping, and with this tool that issue will disappear. Just to be clear, it doesn't give you a faster gcd or allow you to do something others can't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MariaArvana

Honestly though, given the clips I've seen of this in discords, I'm more flabbergasted Square hasn't done something like this officially yet. The tool shows its possible, it seems like a huge QoL to try and implement officially into the game.

---

If they feared that doing this it could break the game than theres no excuses anymore, ppl already did and aparently it nothings has changed.
Hope they at least speak about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Recon1o6

As a console and pc player both, I've always advocated banning gameplay related things like ACT

---

The amount of issues raid groups will have if this was ban on sight, or adding software to counter it, it's never going to happen. Dedicated and Hardcore Raid groups only want quality players, and it will cause such a disaster in the raiding scene with no way of knowing who is not performing the standard requirement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sove92

This is something the game should already do, the addon would not exist if SE fixed this issue with animation locks. The tool still doesn't let you weave oGCDs faster than a 0 ping environment would, it simply makes the game's animation lock behave as if you were playing with 0 ping.

---

Ah interesting, so my ping is close to 300ms on a good day; would I be able to perform a 6ms ping rotation and it queue up and hit the servers out of sync to me? Or would I still be doing one spell every 600ms (return time) no matter what?

(sounds very cheaty, but the fault is ultimately SE's absolutely crap programming ability)