Honest Question: Why so many Level 80 Dancers who do not do their steps?

I have been back on my main on FF14 for over 3 months now after being AFK for nearly 3 years.

Suffice to say, I have thoroughly enjoyed ShB and look forward to Endwalker. After playing healer, DPS and mainly tank...one thing that really bugs me is how every 3rd que in raids I end up normally(there are exceptions to this) with a Dancer in my party who never does their Technical Step once during the entire event and/or only does their Standard Step like once every 2 mins or more.

Has Dancer become the new Bard from Heavensward where the only spam 3/4 buttons and nothing else?
Aren't Dancers supposed to...you know...Dance?
I remember playing with Bards that never used their songs...and I am talking about endgame content...not stuff like leveling roulette. Has Dancer become that role of a job?

I am not trying to be toxic or get hatred from others...but I truly feel this is a huge problem. They made Bard a great class that actually makes you work your DPS...and after playing my 80 Dancer for the last 3 weeks and seeing its DPS potential, it sucks to see how in my opinion(you are more than welcome to disagree)Dancer has become that job now.

Dancer is seen as an "easy job", therefore it attracts a large number of players who are looking for a class they can put the least amount of effort into while still functioning. They aren't interested in learning to play a class well.

Which is a shame because Dancer is both fun and can put out decent numbers through itself + partner. But then folks also said the same of Bard back in 2.X series.

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

Has Dancer become the new Bard from Heavensward where the only spam 3/4 buttons and nothing else?
Aren't Dancers supposed to...you know...Dance?

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I just taught a level 80 bard the other day that their caustic bite/storm bite are a major part of their dps output.

It's unfortunately not just dancers. There's a whoooole lot of people who just don't bother learning how to play their class. And to make matters worse, it's now a borderline punishable offense to tell someone how to correctly play their job.

The same reason people don't AOE or use other basic parts of other jobs- ffxiv players love doing the absolute bare minimum for battle content.

In my experience, when I ask these players why they aren't using X ability (no I'm not being mean about it, this forum loves to jump to that conclusion), the answer is usually something along the lines of "we're getting through it, aren't we?" or "you don't pay my sub."

It's just toxic casualism, most of the time. Not all the time, because there are people who just don't read tooltips, just most of the time.

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Originally Posted by iVolke

In my experience, when I ask these players why they aren't using X ability (no I'm not being mean about it, this forum loves to jump to that conclusion), the answer is usually something along the lines of "we're getting through it, aren't we?" or "you don't pay my sub."

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Right? Every basic-boy in FFXIV loves to talk poorly about WoW's elitist community, but holy heck it's like FFXIV is bizzaro WoW where all the bad players are the toxic frick-boys.

At a guess, Dancers don't have as much time to experience their skill set - most healers and tanks tend to have run through every single instance in-game to get to the level of competency that is required at level 80.

Perhaps you are simply unlucky in the draw, or the tank is pulling mobs too far away from the dancer, or knockbacks and other mechanics are preventing them from approaching the mobs. It is understandable that DPS doesn't want to waste 2 GCDs to work through Standard Step in such cases, doing exactly 0 DPS because they're more than 15 yalms away from any mobs. It is hard to know if the additional 5% damage buff is going to compensate that 0 DPS. For raids under level 70, Technical Step doesn't exist. For 70/80 raids, it is still 3 GCDs that can be wasted, every 2 minutes, although I expect it is less that than just inexperience with how Esprit works for Technical Step, and whether or not a 5% damage bonus is worth those 3 GCDs if the end result is 0 personal DPS during the Step.

Dancers may not be aware that increasing the Esprit guage allows Sabre Dance to be used more often, and this may be worth using Steps to increase that guage. However, Esprit is tricky, in that the tooltips imply it is auto-generated by weapon attacks/spells, when it is only a chance to do so. If a Dancer tried it out and it is perceived that it doesn't really do much, it may be ignored.

If one is trying to maximize DPS, one really requires a dance partner when testing things with a level 80 target dummy.

With a single expansion to learn your job, there are bound to be people who haven't realized their full potential yet. If you are in story-mode raids, you should expect more players to fall into that category than not.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

At a guess, Dancers don't have as much time to experience their skill set - most healers and tanks tend to have run through every single instance in-game to get to the level of competency that is required at level 80.

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imo technical step is literally one of the first things they get starting the job at level 60

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Originally Posted by Merhouse

imo technical step is literally one of the first things they get starting the job at level 60

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Your opinion is wrong. Standard step is given at level 60. Technical step, as I stated, is granted at level 70. The ability to actually use the Esprit gauge for anything useful doesn't show up until level 76, and the ability to generate Esprit without a Step isn't provided until level 80 (on a 2 minute timer).

Standard step is wonderful in dungeon instances. Unfortunately the OP (and I) were talking specifically about raids.

You can step if you want to, you can leave your friends behind. Cuz your friends dont dance and if they don't dance then they're no friends of mine.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Dancer is seen as an "easy job", therefore it attracts a large number of players who are looking for a class they can put the least amount of effort into while still functioning. They aren't interested in learning to play a class well.

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Pretty much the bolded part.

On DNC starter quest, the game basically shoves you a "Here, as a DNC you need to actually use your DANCES abilities."-quest. Information were shoved on players' face, it's almost baffling if people actually missed this. They simply choose not to do it, or forget about them. There are even stories of DNC not wanting to pick dance partners. It's nothing new. They're more of a tiny pin prick than an actual trouble in casual contents, making duties lasts longer, but that's it. :rolleyes:

I just wanna know why I’m seeing so many dancers doing improv for the full length while the boss is still targetable and only like one party member is anywhere near them. Is there something I’m missing here? I see it constantly in alliance raids and DR.

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Originally Posted by BunniEclair

I just wanna know why I’m seeing so many dancers doing improv for the full length while the boss is still targetable and only like one party member is anywhere near them. Is there something I’m missing here? I see it constantly in alliance raids and DR.

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The limsa catgirl is bad at the video game

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Originally Posted by BunniEclair

I just wanna know why I’m seeing so many dancers doing improv for the full length while the boss is still targetable and only like one party member is anywhere near them. Is there something I’m missing here? I see it constantly in alliance raids and DR.

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Improv is the capstone skill so it must be good to use right? /s

I love Improv because it's useless. I hate class design that reserves key rotational abilities for capstone skills or (much worse) set bonus skills. I super happy XIV hasn't implemented that travesty.

When I first started playing the class it was fun as heck but since I could accomplish what I needed to at the time I didn't bother looking up a proper rotation. I eventually did figure out that the Steps were the hardest hitting skills I had. I had no clue the AoE skills hit just as hard as the single target skills so I'd just ignore them when Flourish proc'd them until a friend pointed that out. While I'm well aware that I need to use the steps they're annoying to trigger. It requires staring at bars and playing Simon Says.

I really liked the class at the start as well, but it ends up being tiresome, and also really annoying waiting for procs. I suppose it is pretty fun and easy for players not really trying to play the class properly, or rather at it's potential.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

The limsa catgirl is bad at the video game

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I see it so often that I was starting to think maybe I wasn’t up to date on something. How can someone sit there for 15 seconds waving their arms in a circle and doing no damage while mid-fight and think “feels good, feels natural”?

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Originally Posted by BunniEclair

I see it so often that I was starting to think maybe I wasn’t up to date on something. How can someone sit there for 15 seconds waving their arms in a circle and doing no damage while mid-fight and think “feels good, feels natural”?

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At least they are TRYING to utilize their kits...

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Originally Posted by BunniEclair

I see it so often that I was starting to think maybe I wasn’t up to date on something. How can someone sit there for 15 seconds waving their arms in a circle and doing no damage while mid-fight and think “feels good, feels natural”?

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It's even kind of baffling because there's little to no downtime... in any of the ShB tiers to justify using it. I only remember the transition in E8S, and maybe 2 or 3 ticks during E11S Prismatic Deception. A Couple of moments in all 3 Nier raids and... almost none of the Weapons? 1 tick in Emerald before the blast pushback? Some dungeons, sure, but you're not getting the full Esprit payout with only 4 people. (EDIT: Oh! right before Eternal Breath in E1S, too)

It's a very weirdly designed skill to be the lvl 80 skill.

I ask myself the same question a lot of the time I'm in a party with DNC. As a DNC main it hurts to see the steps not being used. And to watch as the buff falls off. I personally try to ensure it is up 100% of the time from when the dungeon starts to the end. Even between pulls, if there is a risk of it falling off before we get to the next pull, I will refresh it so that even the very first hit on the next group is buffed.

Maybe they aren't ready to take that step yet. In all seriousness...

Technical Step is unlocked through a quest (I have not even done it yet to be honest). I imagine a lot of people haven't done it. Usually you just want to level your jobs to 80 and do job quests later.

If they are not using Standard Step, I expect they just don't understand how it works. They may view it as a stance and just use it once, not understand how it's meant to be used at all, forget to use it because it's on the sidebar or they don't understand it is also an AoE that does damage. The only way you can really understand it is to properly read the tooltips and setup the hotbars correctly.

The majority of players are casual. They return to the game occasionally, do some content for fun, then do other things. Some of them care about competency and do their research and others don't.

If they join an extreme or savage party it's fair to expect them to be prepared to contribute properly in terms of damage, mitigation, healing and rotation, otherwise it usually doesn't matter, the rest of the content in the game is casual content that gets cleared by casual players and that's just how it is.

It's not such a problem because with so many people not doing their rotations properly, it becomes a lot more obvious how well you are doing and how much you are contributing, and that does feel good in a way.

I say that their either dont understand their skills or they're just lazy.
If they dont realise that Standard step is the MAIN skill to use then they miss out on a lot. It does the most damage (until Technical Step) as an AoE and gives your dance partner a dps boost AND starts to charge your Esprit (once unlocked)



THAT BEING SAID...
People probably just look at the Standard Step skill description and not the Standard FINISH skill description so they dont understand the full power of what it does. Not everyone goes into their Action List and read skill descriptions.

I play dancer as maybe my ...3rd main job? So take this as just imho:

The rotation is awkward. Not hard, just awkward.You can play most jobs without really needing to look at the actual action bars, some you might need to do a quick glance to check gauges (like double checking Drg timer, or seeing if samurai kenki is almost full).

Dancer you need to double check the bars or gauges constantly to see if 1) the “better” part of rotations proc, 2) feathers or not 3) you have to check the Simon pattern for steps,then back to your bar if you don’t have the keys memorized in your head.

It’s a lot of looking at bars which can result in missing something else (especially later end gameplay where you need to watch for visual cues from bosses)

This could easily be solved by having sound cues for almost all of these things, even better if there is a related sound matching each color (bird sound, gold clink, etc)

I often compare it to WHM.
They're both so easy to play, but somehow in endgame content they still don't have the basics down.
No DPS, meld all Piety, Medica 2 and regen when there is absolutely no damage coming in etc :p
It just makes you want to say something, but if they're 80 honestly its a lost cause xD

I've run into a ton of lazy Dancer players. It attracted a lot of players for its aesthetic, and most players are pretty bad at the game, honestly.

I have lost track of how many Dancers I have encountered that do not apply Closed Position(Dance Partner) to any party member. They're doing their chakram throws, that must be most of the damage they have to offer, right? @_@

Leveling Dancer was an alright experience. I loved the steps cause their first hit is a BEEEG YOSHI of a number. And they're AOE.

Technical Step comes out of the level 70 job quest, and I know there's a ton of people who purposely ignore the job quests because they "aren't gameplay."

I miss the 2.0~3.0 playerbase a lot, sometimes.

Dancer is the easiest DPS job to play, so if they can't even do the two dances on cooldown, imagine how they are playing other jobs.

Why did people prefer to use bards over machinists in Heavensward? Well, the same reason why people prefer to use Dancers.

I main Dancer.. I am always using Standard Step as soon as it's off cooldown, now Technical.. I save that for bosses, rarely if ever use it for trash. My biggest beef is.. change the color of closed Position or Shield Samba! They're the same orangish color, and for a while I had them right next to each other.. can't count the times I THOUGHT I'd picked a dance partner when what I did was shield the whole party unneccessarily for a little bit ::blushes:: I still on rare occasions hit shield samba instead of closed position even after seperating them.

I'm thoroughly convinced DNC is the go-to job for lazy players between them regularly not using steps on cooldown, not using AoE at all (Despite it being a potency gain on as little as two targets) and just throwing Dance Partner on whoever with no regard for their gear or performance (A player who is dying constantly is both benefiting less from the partner buff and generating less esprit for you to take advantage of).

What content are we talking about? You said queue, so yeah...

Everything below Savage is so braindead that there is little incentive to improve your gameplay. Just stop caring. Turn your brain off and experience the content in the way it's meant to be experienced.

From Savage onwards, just kick them.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I'm thoroughly convinced DNC is the go-to job for lazy players between them regularly not using steps on cooldown, not using AoE at all (Despite it being a potency gain on as little as two targets) and just throwing Dance Partner on whoever with no regard for their gear or performance (A player who is dying constantly is both benefiting less from the partner buff and generating less esprit for you to take advantage of).

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Honestly you'd think RDM would be the go-to, and I MAIN RDM. It's literally one of if not THE easiest ranged job. No having to worry about applying a buff to the best DPS, or RNG, etc etc. Literally just Jolt, veraero, jolt, verthunder, procced verstone so use that and then verthunder, wipe and repeat til you at the very least have an even 80-80 and then jump in for the melee combo and displace yourself off the platform. (worrying about keeping the numbers higher or lower for your 70-80 skills is for not-lazy people)

it's practically the same for the aoe combo except MORE BRAIN DEAD because you don't have to worry about nor pay attention to procs. It's such a hard job to eff up, you'd think they'd gravitate to that versus DNC which has no consistent rotation and relies on RNG procs and has to "worry" about gauging the performance of others or supporting others.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Honestly you'd think RDM would be the go-to, and I MAIN RDM. It's literally one of if not THE easiest ranged job. No having to worry about applying a buff to the best DPS, or RNG, etc etc. Literally just Jolt, veraero, jolt, verthunder, procced verstone so use that and then verthunder, wipe and repeat til you at the very least have an even 80-80 and then jump in for the melee combo and displace yourself off the platform. (worrying about keeping the numbers higher or lower for your 70-80 skills is for not-lazy people)

it's practically the same for the aoe combo except MORE BRAIN DEAD because you don't have to worry about nor pay attention to procs. It's such a hard job to eff up, you'd think they'd gravitate to that versus DNC which has no consistent rotation and relies on RNG procs and has to "worry" about gauging the performance of others or supporting others.

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Because, at their core, RDM still has to cast (ie, stand still) every other spell and do minimal math regarding their mana bars, whereas DNC is literally "press 1-2 until any other button lights up"

As a DNC main I don't know why people don't do their steps because the rotation is so damn easy. And you do great DPS damage to boot.

There is a misconception with Standard Step that you only need to do it when the buff is about to fall rather than doing it on cool down, which is what you are meant to do. I have seen the same with tech step though, I dont understand not using it.

The same reason for every other class in the game - people are lazy and do not care about improving, even in a team-based activity. The playerbase on a whole basically enabling and coddling these people only exacerbates the issue.

As a DNC main, seeing other people not even doing the basic bare minimum job expectations hurts me. I honestly do not think I have ever run across a good DNC. And my expectations for DNCs is lower than some classes simply because it is a very, very easy job - probably the easiest job in the game aside from RDM. Somehow, people still manage to not meet even the lowest expectation of "partner someone who isn't on the floor constantly, use your DANCES on a DANCER class."

You learn something new every day I suppose.. as someone who plays Dancer every now and then.. not that often, I didn't even known that Standard Finish and Technical Finish were also damage dealing AoE's. I feel like a doofus now with how I always used the steps.. namely, at moments where I'm not at risk, downtime.

Welp, guess that's what you get when you don't read every skill description in the P screen.

I noticed that too. And I also noticed DNCs who make terrible decisions when it comes to picking a dance partner.

It irritates me because that kind of behavior is why I see people who claim they groan anytime there is a dancer in their duty. And DNC is my main DPS.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Honestly you'd think RDM[...]

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Allow me to disagree on some points (and forgive me if I misinterpret your post completely the other way around than its intended to be)
First is their mobility. DNC is a ranged physical, thus they are free to literally do some marathon across the entire arena and still be able to keep their weaponskills going. RDM's Dualcast? Not by miles, at least when compared to the ranged physicals. Being a caster they require tiny bits of prepositioning to ensure they can keep their spellcast going in the event when boss mechanic starts to play. Additionally they are literally the only caster that has almost no answer to extended movement burst phases outside their short melee combo and enchanted reprise, in which they can only use the latter once or twice at most before they're delaying their melee combo (yes, Dualcast alone won't cut out, but that's a point to be discussed in another thread if any.)

Second is their burst phase & procs handling. On DNC they simply throw out everything they have under their own technical step & devilment buff window. Got Saber Dance? Unleash them. Got stocks of fans? Unload them to your heart's content. More of them lights up? Quick, spend them while under the buff window for a dps gain! And they can do this all from relatively safe distance, save for their AoE procs. Esprit gauge can basically semi-ignored outside burst window since they just have to make sure it doesn't overcap. They also want to spend any procs (except fans) that lights up. What about RDM? Can I safely get into the boss' melee range without screwing myself or anybody else? Can I get the finisher off in time? Cause losing even Verholy/Verflare and worst: Scorch, really stings. Oh, manafication is up! Can I land the whole combo under that tight 10s buff window? Can I spend my Displacement/Engagement and CaC prior to manafication so I can get the most benefit out of it? Oh no! Both Verfire and Verstone lights up but I already have 80 | 80 ready! Which proc that I should gave up or should I just go straight into the combo? Okay, I just finished Enchanted Redoublement! Gotta take care I don't press any other spell button! (inb4 I accidently press Jolt II and cry internally)

There's definitely less thinking required when playing a DNC and this simplicity is what attracts casual individuals. And amongst these individuals (like any other) bad apples exists. I do agree with you about RDM's braindead AoEs and they still remain one of the easiest job to play (after DNC imo) but that's as far as I'll go before deriving further from main topic ;)

Some easy perspective, one should realize Dancer has the least personal DPS of all the red jobs, and that is why you should use both dances on cooldown, even in non-savage content. The damage burst by tech alone is pretty darn good, and makes up for the least personal damage into a party buff. Now imagine tech finish hitting with DRG Battle Litany, SCH Chain Strategem, RDM Embolden, NIN Trick Attack all at the same time. If your dance partner delivers too, people are going to want to cling to your dancing all the time.