Who is unreal "designed" for?

I've been wondering this for a while.... When unreal was initially announced, it sounded interesting. A way to play old fights at current ilvl, with all our abilities? Sure, sign me up! A weekly, extreme level trial to do to get sweet mounts? Sounds great! But, some insane design decisions that go against each other make this something I try once per patch then avoid:

Forced minimum ilvl & double weekly grind.

Making the fights sync down kinda defeats the point in having them as current content, no? Also, this is something to do weekly - Savage raiders are already doing re-clears weekly and having another, nearly savage level duty that offers far less reward seems... pointless? If it's tough, why make the rewards so scarce & time-consuming? If it's intended to be done weekly in pf, why enforce the challenge so tightly? Making this more midcore content by increasing the max ilvl would make far more sense given the repeatable/random nature of Faux hollows, or making the reward guaranteed for clearing once per patch would make more sense if it's supposed to be challenging limited time end game content.

The complete laziness of the implementation

This is just a general gripe with Levi unreal, but why does the tank best suited for off-tanking have half its rotation reflected? Why does Assize cause healers stacks to go up? Why is the add spawn still very broken depending on dps levels? These fights have been in the game for 6+ years, they need updating if we're meant to fight them with all abilities, not just put number up & add to game.

So yeah, rant over, who actually enjoys these? Do you do extremes/savages? What do the more casual players think of how Unreal currently is?

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Originally Posted by PraiseSultana

Forced minimum ilvl & double weekly grind.

Making the fights sync down kinda defeats the point in having them as current content, no? Also, this is something to do weekly - Savage raiders are already doing re-clears weekly and having another, nearly savage level duty that offers far less reward seems... pointless? If it's tough, why make the rewards so scarce & time-consuming? If it's intended to be done weekly in pf, why enforce the challenge so tightly? Making this more midcore content by increasing the max ilvl would make far more sense given the repeatable/random nature of Faux hollows, or making the reward guaranteed for clearing once per patch would make more sense if it's supposed to be challenging limited time end game content.

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Because they're attempting to showcase what these old EXs were like during their respective peak. Without an ilvl sync, we would utterly obliterate them. For comparison sake, when I helped my current static farm Eden's Gate for TEA, we were all i500 (this was back before the current tier) and just that 30 ilvls allowed for eleven deaths in Titan. And we still skipped his final mechanic. This is a Savage level fight rendered into a complete joke by the following tier's gear upgrade. So imagine how an EX, which are tuned lower, would fare. As for the reward structure. I don't mind it all that much, if only because it keeps the mounts valuable. I'll have made over 40M when my next mount sells. I do admit then only adding a minion this time around was rather lame. I also suspect they'll eventually reduce how much all the current stuff costs; likely in Endwalker if we move up to HW Primals.

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Originally Posted by PraiseSultana

The complete laziness of the implementation

This is just a general gripe with Levi unreal, but why does the tank best suited for off-tanking have half its rotation reflected? Why does Assize cause healers stacks to go up? Why is the add spawn still very broken depending on dps levels? These fights have been in the game for 6+ years, they need updating if we're meant to fight them with all abilities, not just put number up & add to game.

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Leviathan definitely showed the flaw with their approach. Simply upscaling old content doesn't always work, especially not with the massive job changes and change in fight design we've seen. Ninja is essentially bad due to so much of its kit being magic. You either give up positionals or pray the healers baby you. The HP skips also make many mechanics incredibly unfun as Levi is constantly jumping at seemingly random intervals depending on the group you get. I get they didn't want to invest much time into Unreals, but there needs to be some degree of adjustment done to accommodate how different the landscape is.

All in all, I think Unreal is more a way to have additional midcore content if players want it. Plenty of raiders will do things simply for the challenge. I, for one, loved Titan. And since I only started playing in HW, I never got to see him during his heyday.

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Originally Posted by PraiseSultana

Forced minimum ilvl & double weekly grind.

Making the fights sync down kinda defeats the point in having them as current content, no? Also, this is something to do weekly - Savage raiders are already doing re-clears weekly and having another, nearly savage level duty that offers far less reward seems... pointless? If it's tough, why make the rewards so scarce & time-consuming? If it's intended to be done weekly in pf, why enforce the challenge so tightly? Making this more midcore content by increasing the max ilvl would make far more sense given the repeatable/random nature of Faux hollows, or making the reward guaranteed for clearing once per patch would make more sense if it's supposed to be challenging limited time end game content.

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I totally agree. Unreal seems pretty overturned for what it's intended purpose seems to be. Hopefully as they add more to the Faux hollows shop they'll ease up on some of the prices... as is those prices are pretty punishing even for people that have been doing Unreals regularly since Shiva. I'm fine with a grind but man have I gotten into a lot of trap PUGs anythingto to lessen that would be a pro in my book. As is I've begun just doing them to shoot for the clear and enjoy a few reclears. I've barely interacted with each one.

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Originally Posted by PraiseSultana

The complete laziness of the implementation

This is just a general gripe with Levi unreal,

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Because Levi EX is an awkwardly designed fight.
To fix it they have so much stuff they'd have to tweak that no one would call it the same fight.

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Originally Posted by PraiseSultana

So yeah, rant over, who actually enjoys these?

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Me

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Originally Posted by PraiseSultana

Do you do extremes/savages?

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Yes

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Originally Posted by PraiseSultana

What do the more casual players think of how Unreal currently is?

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My FC is more afraid to try Unreals than Savage.
I don't get it either...

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Because they're attempting to showcase what these old EXs were like during their respective peak. Without an ilvl sync, we would utterly obliterate them.

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I can somewhat understand the reason for trying to keep them relevant but it's not like this wasn't the case back in ARR. Just like most extreme fights are outgeared today as soon as they release or soon after, their old extreme fights were the same.
They could've just as easily released them at 10 or 15 ilvls below the current max, like a normal extreme and kept them relevant without making it a frustrating experience for most "midcore" partyfinder groups.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

I can somewhat understand the reason for trying to keep them relevant but it's not like this wasn't the case back in ARR. Just like most extreme fights are outgeared today as soon as they release or soon after, their old extreme fights were the same.
They could've just as easily released them at 10 or 15 ilvls below the current max, like a normal extreme and kept them relevant without making it a frustrating experience for most "midcore" partyfinder groups.

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On the other hand... them releasing them so far below iLVL means it's easy to waltz in with gear that's got capped substats when you synch down.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

On the other hand... them releasing them so far below iLVL means it's easy to waltz in with gear that's got capped substats when you synch down.

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Doesn't really matter in this case because the substat tiers you can reach at ilvl 435 are still terrible, even with maxed out substats.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Doesn't really matter in this case because the substat tiers you can reach at ilvl 435 are still terrible, even with maxed out substats.

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Looooool fair.

Imo, the Unreal fights are just a way to show players who joined after ARR was over what the fights were like, somewhat, when they were current. Lord knows old fogies like me never shut up about the old days.

The reward system could stand to be better to encourage further participation, but the fights themselves aren't exactly something that will stand up to a competent group. Keep in mind, since they're exactly the same as fights from years ago, there are myriad guides for them already, AND you can go unsync the old extreme and watch all of the mechanics play out, if you don't know the fight at all/don't remember it.

I kind of look at it as a way to try and bring old vet raiders and newer raiders closer together. I know it's a very small gesture, but I appreciate it, because MMOs are a shared experience. The shared experience gets better if more people can share in it on some level.

As far as why does it suck that some new skills get shafted/disadvantaged with new kits vs. old fight. Simple. The fights were designed for older, far different kits. Part of this game, and all Final Fantasy games featuring the job system, that goes against our nature/modern mores is the fact that a big advantage on the job system is that anyone can bring any job. It might not be the job that you like, but you can bring jobs that aren't disadvantaged, if it matters so much to you. The nature of this game has always been that some jobs fair better than others, slightly, depending on the fight scenario. Some fight scenarios change which tank is better for what dynamic. Same for DPS. Same for healers, sometimes (this time).

I love the unreals. I do Extreme content as well. I don't do savage though. So I guess I'm mid core and this content is designed for me. The nostalgia trip is very enjoyable.

I never got into Unreals for some reason. I tried Shiva for a bit and the difficulty was fine, but the fight wasn't particularly interesting and the rewards didn't seem worth the bother. After that I just lost interest.

I like the IDEA of Unreal, but the reward system is... Bad atm. The horse and Construct VI-S mount (one of my favorite mounts tbh) are nice but that's really all that's there. They didn't even add anything interesting for Levi....

I feel like Unreal was designed to appeal to the players that are frustrated that they can't experience the old fights as intended. Every now and then I'll see a request to add rewards for synced old content, but the community tends to respond that they aren't interested in grinding fights they farmed years ago with a synced down kit.

I've been doing Unreal weekly since it came out since I'm a mount and minion collector and have a lot of nostalgia for ARR. However most of my friends have not bothered with it as they feel the rewards are too low for the effort involved.

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Originally Posted by Infindox

I like the IDEA of Unreal, but the reward system is... Bad atm. The horse and Construct VI-S mount (one of my favorite mounts tbh) are nice but that's really all that's there. They didn't even add anything interesting for Levi....

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they added an anteater minion. but if you don't feel like you gotta have em all... *shrug*

The grind for Unreal rewards is on par with the grind for EX mount drops, so if, like me, you're trying to do both while not having an MMO eat up all your free time it's kind of a big ask...

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

they added an anteater minion. but if you don't feel like you gotta have em all... *shrug*

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I just bought that sucker off of the market board :)

I did shiva but bailed out at titan... not the time for that BS .... the weekly cap only prevents me from actually gettin back into training it as i wont waste my time doing it for fun...

I never got to try Unreals. I planned to start eventually when I was less busy with stuff, but then I found out they don't even bother keeping old Unreals when adding a new one... That rotation crap just made me lose interest.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

I never got to try Unreals. I planned to start eventually when I was less busy with stuff, but then I found out they don't even bother keeping old Unreals when adding a new one... That rotation crap just made me lose interest.

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I bet at 5.5.555555555555 or just 6.0 they gonna add all of em and rotate em weekly or smt... Or at least i REALLY hope lol

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

I never got to try Unreals. I planned to start eventually when I was less busy with stuff, but then I found out they don't even bother keeping old Unreals when adding a new one... That rotation crap just made me lose interest.

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Gotta crank those participation rates with some good old fashioned FOMO.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

The grind for Unreal rewards is on par with the grind for EX mount drops, so if, like me, you're trying to do both while not having an MMO eat up all your free time it's kind of a big ask...

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Its hard for me to understand how the grind for Unreal rewards is the same as Ex rewards since at most, you can only do an Unreal fight twice a week. Unless You only play once a week and keep getting trap parties, then that makes more sense to me.

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Originally Posted by AC9Breaker

Its hard for me to understand how the grind for Unreal rewards is the same as Ex rewards since at most, you can only do an Unreal fight twice a week. Unless You only play once a week and keep getting trap parties, then that makes more sense to me.

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I meant that in terms of how much you'll potentially have to rerun the fight while it's current.