Alphinaud character developement (SPOILERS WARNING)

Ive done the MSQ at least twice, and one thing nags at me.

Ive seen him sneered at as a "privileged lordling" or worse, and I dont get it. He may be stuffy at times, so is Urianger, but as a character Alphinaud is not only principled, but is brave and tough, is NEVER afraid to fight.

A coward he is not by any means.

So whats with that attitude? Was it an arc created by the devs for the character or the story itself? I agree at times he is opinionated, at the same time he has no fear of stepping up against any foe, the Warriors of Darkness, the Garleans, they want to get in his face?

His response is the same "So ya wanna play do you? Come get it"

As a character in the ARR storyline, his origins belie his strength and determination. Hell he wasnt afraid to hammer Ser Aymeric and call him out on Ishgard's neglect and isolationism in the face of the primals.

Remember Lucia? "Choose your next words carefully".

Alphinaud didnt back down one centimetre despite the fact he was talking to the Lord Commander.

So why? Im just at a loss to see why he, as flawed as he was, wasnt recognised more as a driving force of the Scions. One by one, the "villains" ( if you will ) seriously underestimated him.

So, how have others seen his developement?

Was the creation of the Crystal Braves an act of arrogance...or was he simply not able to see he was being used?

Was he naive as Ilberd believed him to be..or idealistic?

Actually, he did change considerably, as it's been pointed out many times, even in this latest patch - (paraphrased) "he got used to talk to people, rather than at them".
ARR Alphy was a snobby arrogant brat that thought the world would bend to his every whim, he had good intentions and leader/diplomat skills, yes, but he only saw what he wanted to see and couldn't care less about anyone else's opinions, and that's why the betrayal of the Braves hit him so hard - it was the harshest wake up call he could face.

In short, his ideals and goals didn't change, his personality and how he approach people did.

I think our boy grew up quite alot since ARR. He is steadfast in his ways, but has become less Arrogant.

The Crystal Braves arc, Estinian, and his time in Eulmore (im forgetting if there was a moment in Stormblood) are all tied to his progression to developing as a character.
In Eulmore he even has a self reflecting moment from ARR.

Still as insufferable as ever, tho.

In ARR, I wanted to strangle him every time he opened his mouth. Heavensward beat plenty of character development into him. He's still not my favorite Scion, but he's tolerable now.

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and how he feels he should protect Eorzea like his grandfather did.

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Maybe thats part of it...Louisoix cast a giant shadow and Alphinaud feels as if he will always be under that shadow, not his own man. His grandfather's deeds were the stuff of legends, hard to live up to that, or be expected to by others.

I felt it was more like he wanted to follow Louisoix's goals without understanding his mission. Alphinaud wanted to protect and uplift Eorzea, but didn't bother to actually understand it or its people. He just thought he could throw his high-minded ideals around and everyone would immediately fall into line behind him and make the world better. The world doesn't work like that, and it took his own initiative spectacularly backfiring on him (the Crystal Braves) for it to start to sink in.

Kind of makes him a foil for Gaius, now that I think about it. Both of them sought to impose their own ideals, but Alphinaud tried to be diplomatic (or at least, he thought he was trying to be), while Gaius went for overwhelming military power. Both failed because they continually underestimate the people they're trying to control.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Ive done the MSQ at least twice, and one thing nags at me.

Ive seen him sneered at as a "privileged lordling" or worse, and I dont get it. He may be stuffy at times, so is Urianger, but as a character Alphinaud is not only principled, but is brave and tough, is NEVER afraid to fight.

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Alphinaud stands shoulder to shoulder with world leaders often telling them what he thinks they should do, and coming from someone so young and idealistic it can appear that he is both overambitious and naive. The overambition coming from his privileged upbringing, being a prodigy who was inducted into higher education at an exceptionally young age and having a widely respected grandfather. Appearing naive because his youth is paired with being idealistic in stark contrast to the often pessimistic and older world leaders. To someone who doesn't know him well he could appear to be little more than a child who thinks their background gives him more life experience and skill than he actually has and that he thinks being a well educated prodigy gives him the right to be on the same level as those far more experienced and older than he is. In short; at first glance he can look like a well dressed smartypants kid playing at being a diplomat.

Urianger is far older than Alphinaud so from that alone it is easier for him to get respect. He mostly works alone doing research or puzzle solving so he isn't in a position to get criticised as often as someone like Alphinaud who constantly works with highly influential people outside of the Scions. Alphinaud has to constantly prove to people that he isn't just some kid hoping a well tailored outfit will fool them into thinking he has merit.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Was the creation of the Crystal Braves an act of arrogance...or was he simply not able to see he was being used?

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It was an act of good intentioned arrogance. It wasn't that the idea of the Crystal Braves was bad, it's that Alphinaud didn't take enough care to make sure he recruited people who can be trusted. He was riding the wave of success too much to notice that the Braves were not completely under his control. His idealism blinded him to the fact that he opened the door to people with ulterior motives to gain a position of power, and assumed that the power hungry syndicate that he often disagreed with wouldn't interfere.

The Braves taught Alphinaud that he shouldn't assume that everyone who joins him for his ideals are joining him with the same goals in mind. They taught him he should talk with people to get to the heart of their intentions instead of just talk at them hoping they'll eventually just agree.

His ego was overly inflated due to his background and high intellect but it wasn't tempered with enough failure that older people already gained from life experience. The Braves was a huge failure that taught him important lessons, but they also shattered his ego and he began to question the pursuit of his ideals. However being with Estinien taught him that the tenacious pursuit of the goals from his idealistic views is very powerful when someone knows how heavy the cost of failure truly is.

When the Scions get back to the Source Alisae laments a lack of growth in comparison to the others. Alphinaud, instead of being overconfident and wanting to snatch success like in ARR, simply tells Alisae that their time will come. He knows to just wait because before his inability to have mindful patience made the Braves a disaster.

Alphinaud is my favourite character because he is very flawed. He always had a good heart but he was overconfident. Now his confidence stems from actual experience rather than just raw intellect and admiration for his grandfather. He's still the same height, but the strength of his character grew considerably.

With us almost certainly going to Old Sharlayan in 6.0, it's occurred we might actually get to meet the parents of the twins.

I've always wondered what they've been up to as they're scarcely mentioned compared to Louisoix to the extent that we don't even know their names (Unless that's something mentioned in the lorebook).

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Alphinaud stands shoulder to shoulder with world leaders often telling them what he thinks they should do, and coming from someone so young and idealistic it can appear that he is both overambitious and naive.

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I think this is the key point. I want to say in the latest patch it's hinted that he's in his teens (I think Urianger said it wasn't until his 20s that he got a growth spurt, implying Alph is under 20; I could be mis-remembering).

Especially from a Japanese point of view, for a younger person to talk on equal grounds to an elder/superior as Alph does the world leaders can absolutely be seen as arrogant or overstepping even if he is absolutely right in what he's saying.

So I think there might be some lost in translation with that.

The idea seems to be that because is descended from Louisoix, the famous Sharlayan hero who saved Eorzea, he's rich.

Rich are often perceived that way, and to be honest, he at first comes across like a privileged person that tries to say he is right and knows best because of where he comes from. Let's be honest, being the rich grandson of Louisoix, the person who destroyed Bahamut, has got to give you an ego trip.

Following in the footsteps of his grandfather, he wants to do great things and the legacy of his grandfather feeds his ego that he can continue it, and he has the perfect solution, a perfect army and the finances to fund it. This feels like a good idea when going through the story.

Obviously, that was naive, because people have their own motivations for doing things and can be corrupt. He learns a lot from the experience, that the world is not so simple.

If you do the coil story, you learn more about his motivations.

Alphinaud tells you this himself multiple times, that what makes him care and everything else is you, and the example that you set, being brave and helping others with problems big and small. He is inspired by that, but before that he was obviously inspired by his grandfather's bravery.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

So why? Im just at a loss to see why he, as flawed as he was, wasnt recognised more as a driving force of the Scions. One by one, the "villains" ( if you will ) seriously underestimated him.

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He's a teenager so of course they would underestimate him. Underestimating teenagers is quite normal, even if it's misguided.

He's not seen as the driving force because Minfilia is that, but he does try to fight her for that position for a while until they all realise they don't want or need one. By then Alphinaud has started to realise he had a big ego, and that he needed to get rid of it and be more diplomatic.

Out of every Scion I think he has had the most development, even more so than Alisae. Still hate her. lol He went from being a stuck up little kid with a god complex to a reasonable young man who always thinks his actions through and legitimately cares about those his decisions affect directly and indirectly.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Maybe thats part of it...Louisoix cast a giant shadow and Alphinaud feels as if he will always be under that shadow, not his own man. His grandfather's deeds were the stuff of legends, hard to live up to that, or be expected to by others.

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If anyone hasn’t done Coil, I suggest doing it unsyched with at least 3 ppl. Touches more on the relationship of Louisoix, Alphy and Alisae. It’s really good IMO

I don’t know how anyone could find him likeable during ARR.

I liked him during ARR. He was a kid. Kids are dumb sometimes. But he learned and grew from it.

He was not likable in ARR. He was one of those “I know best what You should do, so you must listen to Me” petty patronizing authoritarians. The kind who believe that once they are in charge of everything, they can bring about a utopia. That’s why he thought he could make a multi-national organization for the good of the realm, and didn’t bother taking anyone else’s agendas into account. He even leveraged his friends (including WOL) as a force multiplier. He was about 1 step away from being the game’s worst villain, and even today he’s in dire need of a fair butt-kicking.

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” C.S. Lewis.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

With us almost certainly going to Old Sharlayan in 6.0, it's occurred we might actually get to meet the parents of the twins.

I've always wondered what they've been up to as they're scarcely mentioned compared to Louisoix to the extent that we don't even know their names (Unless that's something mentioned in the lorebook).

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We know their dad’s name- Forchelnaut Leveilleur- and that he’s a sage and member of The Forum. We know nothing about their mother, as far as I’m aware.

Given Alphi’s new job and the tease that we’ll be surprised who Alisae gets her new clothes from, I think we may meet Forchelnaut soon. Also considering the last quest of this patch, we may even get to go to Sharlayan, finally.