DV

Hey all,
Normally I main DRK but I decided to grab the cryptlurker pally weapons and give it a go for the first time in a long time. Its fine, no real complaints except for DV. Is there a reason the devs designed it this way im not aware of because the other tanks have an oGCD party mitigator but this requires healing to break. Sure I can clemency to pop it but....why? It feels awkward and stupid. Its obviously not game breaking but it just feels unnecessary.

It's mostly something overlooked from HW, where GCD healing was a bit more prevalent compared to now.

Personally, I think they should add an excog effect to Divine Veil, as the 30 second initial window can be used to shave 30 seconds off the next Veil, so it allows 2 Veil shields in a 60 second window.

Secondly, I see no reason why the shield does not apply to the Paladin, especially since it's the only tank to not get any sort of benefit.

The 30 second recast reduction moving into ShB was nice, but still more should be done in Endwalker for Divine Veil.

Lol Divine Veil drove me so nuts I had to stop playing PLD.
For the tank with the most party support skills I guess some of its tools had to be a little shit or it could support too hard maybe?

Not that I feel PLD is worth dropping over something so small. I don't encourage others to, I just can't stand it lol.

Thanks for the replies, its nice to know im not the only one who thinks this ability is stupid. I went back to DRK after a few runs of content mainly because TBN is like heroine but I'd like to play pally and I hope they fix DV. I also think the magic burst window is a copy paste of war/drk and would like to see a better way of building and spending oath gauge. DRK gauge is simple but important yet it can be filled by multiple methods. Auto attacks only for oath and a 20 second timer on the dot is a very strict rotation that feels robotic.

Divine Veil is fine when you take into account what tanks are meant to be - taking lots of damage instead of the squishy DPS and healers and thus there is the expectation that you as a tank would need to be healed, which is why it requires a heal to be cast on you to trigger the effect. It you want to use it yourself without waiting for someone to heal you just cast a single Clemency on yourself - it's one of the reasons we have such a self heal, and it is perfectly fine to do so.

Ironically, in the pre ShB days this was one of the reasons why I used to keep Cure cross-classed on my PLD despite being utterly impotent healing wise for everything past level 10 content - casting it on myself after using Divine Veil would still trigger the effect, but wouldn't overheal me by barely anything - Clemency of course is so potent now so you can understand why some players might get upset by it without understanding the reasons for doing so.

Personally like Aodhan I would like it it to give at least some of the defense buff to the PLD as well, but I understand why that is not - the whole idea of a knight in shinning armour putting the needs of others before yourself and all.

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Originally Posted by RinaB

I also think the magic burst window is a copy paste of war/drk

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It's pretty funny you say this, considering PLD had the original "use this attack five times in a row" burst phase.

Divine Veil was originally the only party wide shielding that a tank could provide. Of course, that was back in Heavensward.

All you really need is a bit of foresight with it and communication. I usually pop mine when I know AOE healing is going out or shields, before a raid wide. It triggers of the AOE, pops up nice and fresh. If it doesn't, and I know we need it, I bite the bullet and Clemency myself.

Iirc it actually used to be worse. Not only was the cooldown on it longer, but if memory serves, back in HW the shield it gave was proportional to the amount of healing you received from the cure that activated it (or something else was jank about it... I was a WAR main at the time though). Of course, this was also at a time when we still had Stoneskin, and Deployment Tactics had just come out. You could stack Deployed Adlo, Divine Veil, Stoneskin, and the other mitigators at the time like Dragon Kick or Delirium, Storm's Path, and Supervirus to reduce a problem raidwide to 0.

It'd be nice if they changed it, but PLD doesn't really need anymore buffs.

A DRK main who has to deal with living dead is complaining about the clunkiness of divine veil? XD

Serious note: while veil is clunky to use it does have some upsides, you can use veil much earlier than necessary to get the ability on CD and then you have a 30 second window for your healers to proc it to get the shield on that lasts another 30 seconds, so in a pre-formed group where you are co-ordinating with your healers you can have veil on CD for almost a full minute of its 90 sec CD before you even use the shield.

Compare that to shake it off where you pretty much have to pop it when you intend to use it because of the 15 sec duration and you can see where veil starts to pull ahead.

Also something to note is that shake it off gives a shield based on the targets HP, while veil gives a shield based on the users HP. So when a PLD uses veil they’re giving the entire party a shield of 10% of TANK HP making it significantly stronger than an unbuffed shake it off on the group (the trade off here being it doesn’t effect the user).

PLD has 2 party mitigation skills that work against all kinds of damage. They need to have some kind of drawback.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Iirc it actually used to be worse. Not only was the cooldown on it longer, but if memory serves, back in HW the shield it gave was proportional to the amount of healing you received from the cure that activated it (or something else was jank about it... I was a WAR main at the time though).

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Divine Veil was always 10% the Paladin's Max hp. The biggest factor was that 10% a Paladin's max hp was pretty different between Str accessories and Vit Accessories. A Vit PLD was giving every non-tank a nearly 15% to 20% shield while a Str tank was giving out a 12% to 15% shield.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

A DRK main who has to deal with living dead is complaining about the clunkiness of divine veil? XD

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Yes. Because if LD is a top priority to a DRK main it means you need to find new healers to play with.

I would be surprised if a developer has actually looked at Divine Veil since Heavensward and actually asked themselves how it fits in with tank balance and other raidwide mitigation tools. There's like four of them, so they probably haven't the time.

There's no reason why Divine Veil should be inferior to Shake it Off. Passage of Arms is a dps loss when there's a targetable mob up. If you're feeling threatened by PLD having access to both, perhaps have Veil cost gauge. Problem solved.

On a tangent, if you have healers who don't think that revising LD is a top priority on DRK, you definitely need to find new healers to play with. They're the ones who pay the resource costs at the end of the day.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Also something to note is that shake it off gives a shield based on the targets HP, while veil gives a shield based on the users HP. So when a PLD uses veil they’re giving the entire party a shield of 10% of TANK HP making it significantly stronger than an unbuffed shake it off on the group (the trade off here being it doesn’t effect the user).

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It's really not significantly stronger at all. The PLD in my static has ~203k HP which makes Divine Veil a ~20.3k Shield. The WHM has the lowest HP in my static at ~121k HP and Shake it Off provides a minimum Shield of ~18.5k. And again, that's minimum where there's only a ~1.8k difference in Shield strength. Buff Shake it Off with Raw Intuition and now the WHM has a ~20.5k Shield. As for our MNK, he has ~141k HP. An unbuffed Shake it Off is a ~21.1k Shield which is already beating out Divine Veil, and the Raw Intuition buffed Shake it Off is providing a ~24k Shield. The Shield from Shake it Off may not be based off the WAR's HP, but the higher multiplier balances it out anyways such that even low HP party members like Casters and Healers are barely down compared to Divine Veil, and it only gets stronger if the WAR chucks a low recast buff at it. Now, this is level 80 content and I'm drawing a blank on level 70 HP values so who knows, maybe Divine Veil is significantly stronger there if you're doing UCoB, but for level 80? Eh, Shake it Off will give a Shield that is either close enough or stronger depending on the Job and it Shields the WAR as well while PLD gets nothing from Divine Veil.

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Originally Posted by Beddict

It's really not significantly stronger at all. The PLD in my static has ~203k HP which makes Divine Veil a ~20.3k Shield. The WHM has the lowest HP in my static at ~121k HP and Shake it Off provides a minimum Shield of ~18.5k. And again, that's minimum where there's only a ~1.8k difference in Shield strength. Buff Shake it Off with Raw Intuition and now the WHM has a ~20.5k Shield. As for our MNK, he has ~141k HP. An unbuffed Shake it Off is a ~21.1k Shield which is already beating out Divine Veil, and the Raw Intuition buffed Shake it Off is providing a ~24k Shield. The Shield from Shake it Off may not be based off the WAR's HP, but the higher multiplier balances it out anyways such that even low HP party members like Casters and Healers are barely down compared to Divine Veil, and it only gets stronger if the WAR chucks a low recast buff at it. Now, this is level 80 content and I'm drawing a blank on level 70 HP values so who knows, maybe Divine Veil is significantly stronger there if you're doing UCoB, but for level 80? Eh, Shake it Off will give a Shield that is either close enough or stronger depending on the Job and it Shields the WAR as well while PLD gets nothing from Divine Veil.

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Shake It Off was buffed from the "useful" StB version in both 5.0 and 5.2. It went from a 8% shield base with 4% increase per sacrificed buff (4 buffs max for 24%) to of 12% shield base with a 2% increase (3 buffs max for 18%) with 5hB. In 5.2 it was buffed to 15% +2% (up to 3 buffs) for a max of 21%. Most people likely didn't realize that it has been buffed to the point that it is now roughly equal to/superior to DV.