What is Bard?

I recently leveled Bard to 80, albeit begrudgingly, and I have been wondering for days now what exactly is Bard suppose to be in this game.

To me FF14's Bard is "A Dark Mage who has assumed a disguise as an Archer and can occasionally sing songs but primarily uses magical arrows to try to lay waste to their enemies." Because it feels as if it is multiple different archetypes tossed into a blender and poured into a glass and served as an aberration to what a "bard" is known for which is being primarily musically inclined.

Let's break down Bard's kit.
Why does Bard, a musically themed archetype, have three abilities, Sidewinder, Shadowbite and Iron Jaws, that look like and could be considered dark magic? Why does Bard, a musically themed archetype, have Venomous/Caustic* Bite and Wind/Stormbite*? Why does Bard, a musically themed archetype, have Quick Nock, Bloodletter and Rain of Death? None of those are Bard-like and all are reminiscent of what a Hunter or Ranger uses. Why does Bard, a musically themed archetype, have Pitch Perfect*, Empyreal Arrow, Burst Shot, Refulgent Arrow and Apex Arrow*? All of which look almost entirely magical in appearance and feel.**
*Pitch Perfect and Apex Arrow can be argued to be musical but they are not. Pitch Perfect is all but a swirling mass of blue effects. Apex Arrow lacks any semblance of music only it's SFX sounds musical. Caustic Bite and Stormbite look more magical compared to their predecessors.

The only truly musically inclined abilities Bard possesses are; Mage's Ballad, Army's Paean, Wanderer's Minuet, Troubadour, Battle Voice, Nature's Minne and The Warden's Paean. Which is saddening as they are all cooldowns and not used as often as Burst Shot and Bloodletter. And only Mage's Ballad, Troubadour and Army's Paean sound musical. The others just sound like wind.

**Bard no longer feels or looks like a regular Archer anymore and instead feels more magical to the point that it can pass as a mage with instant cast times which isn't an entirely bad thing if they go the full magic archer route and cull Quick Nock, Rain of Death and Bloodletter by upgrading all three into musically themed weaponskills and abilities. Which would solve my issue I have with Bard feeling like a mishmash of multiple identities and barely feeling like a real bard due to the severe lack of offensive musical weaponskills/abilties.

It's also sad to note that several bosses and Blue Mage are better bards than Bard.

What is a bard? According to FFXIV: The word "bard" ordinarily puts folk in mind of those itinerant minstrels, fair of voice and nimble of finger, who earn their coin performing in taverns and the halls of great lords. Few know, however, that bards in fact trace their origins back to the bowmen of eld, who sang in the heat of battle to fortify the spirits of their companions. In time, their impassioned songs came to hold sway over the hearts of men, inspiring their comrades to great feats and granting peace unto those who lay upon the precipice of death.


Singing Archers. That's it that's the lore, they're archers that sing songs while shooting arrows and those songs bolster the spirits of (or buff) their allies. That's why all their "song" related skills are buffs. They're passively singing while being archers. Do I wish that there was a bit more music theme to the class? Sure, but they are both archers and bards so it makes sense that alot of their abilities are archery related.

Yes, they are magically imbued arrows, but if you noticed, every class in this game does magically imbued stuff with their attacks. As simple and reductive as it sounds, alot of the archer stuff looking the way it does is merely a matter of "looking cool and flashy" Would it be more thematic if those flashy magic arrow attacks had musical notes and the like thrown on them? It sure would. But the fact that you are an archer who uses archer attacks while singing, while not as potently present as it used to, it's still there.

Bard’s in game lore setting it as a weirdly toned upgrade of the generic ranger archetype was the result of 1.0 not using traditional Final Fantasy jobs, and having them layered onto the existing system later on. For a good while Bards were everywhere and beloved since they were the only physical ranged and the only option with a party utility focus. Basically every raid group had a bard. Final Fantasy canon doesn’t have a core bow and arrow job established in past titles, so it was a compromise the devs made and the player-base at large accepted since 2.x Bard was so damn good.

Basically, the current weirdness, I think, is the dev team trying to keep some ranger identity onto what they forced into being the game’s support focussed job.

I would personally balance more 50/50 the archer x musician aspect of the job... For example, why Soul Voice gauge is spent with an... arrow attack? Could've a song. Say, something you'd channel for a while and it consumes the bar progressively.

Would be cool if everything related to the Job Gauge like Pitch Perfect, would be handled with the Musician approach, while the rest, being the Archer aspect.

I'm more curious about how do we keep the music on while shooting arrows.
Is magic involved?

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Originally Posted by kiagenwa

I'm more curious about how do we keep the music on while shooting arrows.
Is magic involved?

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According to Jehantel in the Level 35 Job Quest:

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Nerves near to fraying, his breast fit to burst, the archer did the only thing he could: he sang. His bow became a makeshift instrument, plucked as an accompaniment.
At first, the archer sang only to still the roiling within. But his voice chanced to carry to his comrades. It inspirited those engaged in combat, lending strength to their sword arms. And to those who lay upon the precipice of death, it granted a measure of peace.

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Bards are basically singing full time while fighting which seems like it would be hilariously difficult when using a greatbow and popping off arrows at an angry dragon or Primal. And the songs themselves are presumably empowered with magic to buff allies and debuff enemies since every Job in the game uses aether somehow. As for instruments, those aren't used very often. Some Bows, such as the Artemis Bow, do have instruments built into them and they serve dual function of adjusting the timbre of the bow twang and the draw of bow according to Gerolt in the Zodiac Relic Quest:

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The final pages contain what appears to be the Godsbow's commentary regardin' the finer points of performance.
The man wrote that the weather─heat, humidity, an' what have ye─greatly affects an instrument's timbre.
An' the same's true for bows─they're more or less flexible, see, which can be the difference between an arrow in yer enemy's eye, an' one stuck in the ground half a yalm in front of him.
For this reason, Gilbert had tunin' pins installed on his weapon-cum-instrument. This much was written in the text.

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So yeah, main instrument is the plucking of the bowstring itself while the Bard sings non-stop, the timbre of the bowstring can be adjusted using tuning pins depending on the bow, and the Bard is constantly channeling aether into their song to empower allies.

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Originally Posted by Beddict

Bards are basically singing full time while fighting which seems like it would be hilariously difficult when using a greatbow and popping off arrows at an angry dragon or Primal. And the songs themselves are presumably empowered with magic to buff allies and debuff enemies since every Job in the game uses aether somehow. As for instruments, those aren't used very often.

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Too much lore in BRD quests, didn't read this part :o
Seem like a very tiring role... singing loud enough to get my friends hear while shooting.

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Originally Posted by kiagenwa

Too much lore in BRD quests, didn't read this part :o
Seem like a very tiring role... singing loud enough to get my friends hear while shooting.

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One could argue that was the lore reason behind using the songs would lower your dps before they where redesigned in Stormblood. But Honestly? Things like that just come down to "LOL AETHER LETS ME DO IT."

A bit more supportive musical abilities, that are more visibly powerful would be much welcomed.
the bard we have plays like what you would expect something like a Ranger class to play like, and if you were to take away the musical skins on the abilities ya probly wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

The Bard job fantasy is lacking because it doesn’t sell the idea of musician very well in combat. I would like to see them add cast time back to Bards attacks, but more like Blue Mage’s Sonic Boom, where it’s fast enough to still weave global cooldown. I think cast time would give the job a better feel. I have always thought it very awkward how Bards can run around shooting the enemy while facing away. It’s a bit tacky. Second I would like them to double down on the musical aspects of the job. If they invented this whole performance system where people all over are playing such wonderful music, I believe they should be able to make combat more musical. I want to see hard casted songs again, and I want to see these songs be performed hitting the corresponding abilities in time.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

I think cast time would give the job a better feel. I have always thought it very awkward how Bards can run around shooting the enemy while facing away. It’s a bit tacky.

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If that's the way you feel you're welcome to go into the settings and enable that feature that forces you to physically face your target to attack it... like how the game used to be played.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

If that's the way you feel you're welcome to go into the settings and enable that feature that forces you to physically face your target to attack it... like how the game used to be played.

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Wait wait wait... what’s this setting? I wanna troll my boyfriend.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Wait wait wait... what’s this setting? I wanna troll my boyfriend.

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If I remember correctly it's here, though I think there are a couple different ways to do it:

https://i.postimg.cc/fbJhgDxz/download.png

Test it out for yourself to make sure it does what you want before your prank, and good luck <3

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Originally Posted by ItMe

If that's the way you feel you're welcome to go into the settings and enable that feature that forces you to physically face your target to attack it... like how the game used to be played.

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No I really mean they should have a moment of pause when attacking. The idea of mobile Bard is absurd at best. Singing and shooting accurately takes focus. Hell, playing an instrument takes focus. On no planet should Bard have the freedom to run around as much as they currently do. Making it more a caster style but with physical damage would actually give it a more solid identity between DNC and MCH. Compared to BLM, SMN is a very mobile mage, so it stands to reason something like this could apply to Physical DPS ya know? Nerfing mobility also gives them room to put the power elsewhere, such as stronger support, or higher damage.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

If I remember correctly it's here, though I think there are a couple different ways to do it:

https://i.postimg.cc/fbJhgDxz/download.png

Test it out for yourself to make sure it does what you want before your prank, and good luck <3

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You're a gem and I love you.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

No I really mean they should have a moment of pause when attacking. The idea of mobile Bard is absurd at best. Singing and shooting accurately takes focus. Hell, playing an instrument takes focus. On no planet should Bard have the freedom to run around as much as they currently do. Making it more a caster style but with physical damage would actually give it a more solid identity between DNC and MCH. Compared to BLM, SMN is a very mobile mage, so it stands to reason something like this could apply to Physical DPS ya know? Nerfing mobility also gives them room to put the power elsewhere, such as stronger support, or higher damage.

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Oooh, I see what you're saying.
That's a neat idea, and a BRD I'd definitely be interested in trying.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

You're a gem and I love you.

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https://i.postimg.cc/W39T8zQp/20210529-071625.jpg

We had bard (and machinist) with cast times back in Heavensward. The majority opinion was that it was terrible.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

We had bard (and machinist) with cast times back in Heavensward. The majority opinion was that it was terrible.

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I heard about that, but I started playing in SB, so I've never experienced it. It sounds interesting to me, but if most people felt it was bad, then I'll honestly take their word for it. I think ranged dps fills a comfortable unique role, seperate from casters because their mobility. They're my favourite dps role overall, in big part because of it, so I really wouldn't want it to be changed anyway I guess.

I think ultimately, the biggest reason bard doesn't feel like one is the aesthetic of it. If they just changed more of the visual effects of what we're doing into musical effects, I think that'd help a lot. I always thought it'd be interesting to have us be able to choose one of our performance instruments to be what represents our visual and sound effects in combat, rather than the premade ones. It'd be a really fun way to customize our bards to our own personal interests. But I understand that's probably an unreasonable amount of extra work for just one job. :(

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

We had bard (and machinist) with cast times back in Heavensward. The majority opinion was that it was terrible.

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And it was, hated those incarnations though I do miss HW MCH purley off stockholm syndrome. SB split the jobs into their own respected identities then proceed to butcher them in SHB. Hopefully EW can save them as BRD just needs a few tweaks and MCH needs a thread to its many many fragmented mechanics

One thing that I am sure many people forget or aren't aware of is that there have been many iterations of Bards that used a Bow as a weapon; FFXIV is not the only game/story to do so. The key is finding a good balance between the Bard aspects and their weapon of choice. For FFXIV, SB got it, and was much loved because of it. And, although ShB didn't change them too much, they felt a bit more underwhelming because of the inclusion of Dancer.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

One thing that I am sure many people forget or aren't aware of is that there have been many iterations of Bards that used a Bow as a weapon; FFXIV is not the only game/story to do so. The key is finding a good balance between the Bard aspects and their weapon of choice. For FFXIV, SB got it, and was much loved because of it. And, although ShB didn't change them too much, they felt a bit more underwhelming because of the inclusion of Dancer.

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thats the the thing, Shb did have significant changes to the old BRD mains like the switch to flat percentages for the dots instead of a inflatable stat, and the exclusion of mana and tp altering effects with no replacements. but however their main kit, there rotation for offense barley changed besides a few trims like misery's end and the straight arrow bar. Long story short if u played BRD in SB u can ease back in seamlessly.

BRD has a few camps, the old mains annoyed their job debatably got more removed than received, those wish it to be more heavily focused on songs, and those who never liked it to begin with and constantly bring up DNC and MCH as better examples of ranged, and of course the others that want ranged to be on par with Melee with there ease of use not withstanding. Yes BRD needs its own identity, and yes BRD needs abit more on the support side but with how FF14 is right now it doesnt have alot to go off of now mana and tp are gone without gimping DNC. Personally BRD is the best ranged of the 3 cuz its not bare bones like MCH and it isnt random as and straight forward like DNC and it worrys me how theyll shrink BRD this time to please fans they could care less about it

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Originally Posted by Eloah

One thing that I am sure many people forget or aren't aware of is that there have been many iterations of Bards that used a Bow as a weapon; FFXIV is not the only game/story to do so. The key is finding a good balance between the Bard aspects and their weapon of choice. For FFXIV, SB got it, and was much loved because of it. And, although ShB didn't change them too much, they felt a bit more underwhelming because of the inclusion of Dancer.

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I mained brd because i could dps while supporting my pt , i felt usefull having TP / MP regen songs back then , boosting the dmg of my pt with foe requiem , and soul voice was the cherry on top

TP/MP regen songs removed , foe requiem is a joke now , and battle voice is "ok" at best nowadays.

the elephant on the room is there DANCING and laughing , there is another guy with a pistol that want to shot it dead too.

To me, Bard is just SMN who traded his book and egis for a Bow, Fedora and some useless utility.

The 1% dps Boost from mages ballad never fails to make me laugh. I guess you can't spell Bard without bad.

The mechanics of playing the bard is the opposite of what a bard is supposed to be like.

Ideal bard should sing songs that other care about. Here is a song about the glorious of magus xxxx against the dragon yyy. All the mage in your party are hyped. Here is a song about great warrior ZZZZ facing off 10,000 opponent, then all the melee notice your song and get excited.

Actual bard is a shower singing narcissist, only the bard himself cares what he/she is actually singing.

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Originally Posted by Gobio

The mechanics of playing the bard is the opposite of what a bard is supposed to be like.

Ideal bard should sing songs that other care about. Here is a song about the glorious of magus xxxx against the dragon yyy. All the mage in your party are hyped. Here is a song about great warrior ZZZZ facing off 10,000 opponent, then all the melee notice your song and get excited.

Actual bard is a shower singing narcissist, only the bard himself cares what he/she is actually singing.

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until u sing battle voice , u are the only that doesnt care u dont even get the "buff"

is like SE is trolling brd playerbase

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Originally Posted by Anhra

To me, Bard is just SMN who traded his book and egis for a Bow, Fedora and some useless utility.

The 1% dps Boost from mages ballad never fails to make me laugh. I guess you can't spell Bard without bad.

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Disregarding Minne, Troubadour, and Battle voice and nitpicking a song you literally Play the least. I’ll take crappy utility over none at all or worse none at all and a half assed kit with no spark.

I think the Job just needs a few things to power it up a bit more and also please both sides of the coin Archer and Bards of all MMOs ever.

suggested Endwalker skills I would like to see.

1. We need 1 AOE dot application skill to empower our dots when we are hitting multiple enemies.

. My suggestion for this would be applying the normal dot skills but when using Iron Jaws on a target you not only reset the duration of the skill but a musical note tornado type of animation is triggered creating an AOE and applying the dot to all the enemies in the area

2. Bard Feels Very Awkward when skills dont trigger with the dots. When I use ballad just as an example I use Burst shot > Blood letter > burst shot >blood letter but sometimes the blood letter doesn't proc and if your Empyreal Arrow is not up you just start only using your burst shot hoping the skill will bloody proc. (basically fix this awkwardness that tends to happen)

3. 4th song I do think a 4th song idea mentioned in another thread that extremely buffs up the party and had maybe musical notes flying around all players would be super cool to see.
. Heck make bard enter a performance mode where they put that bow on their back wip out an instrument of the players choosing ( the ones you are able to perform with) and enter a state where all their skills do less damage and have musical animations on all your attacks playing from the instrument not a bow. (please note while your hitting weaker your party is doing the extra damage you are lacking during this mode and then some so your not losing overall party DPS your gaining it)

. Basically 4th song would make the bard an actual bard for a bit rather then the hybrid its always been. Maybe as well the 4th song would empower our 3 remaining support skills example:

Wardens Paeon > removes all detrimental effects from the party

Troubadour > Damage taken recieved reduced by 15-20% ( again percentages would have to be messed with.)

Natures Minne > HP recovery 40% to self or target or just increase all healing received to the entire party

. Also make this song only usable when either filling up some new gauge or after going through x amount of total current songs. or just have this song replace Army's Paeon since Army's Paeon has always been very neish.

Bard Does not need a complete rework Bard just needs to do something more with its instruments in terms of animations as well as have a moment where its not strictly a Archer.

Bard has always felt like archer first quick button press for music then back to bow let us strum our instruments more and you make all bards very happy!

note: In Archage I played EbonSong so Im perfectly ok with the whole hybrid Idea however the amount of music we currently actually play with this Job is miniscule even when in comparison to that.

The fundamental problem of bard is who (as in which person) exactly care about the singing?

You can do all the changes on the surface to fool the bard player that your character is singing, but at the end of the day, if it is still balanced to the point that only you the bard care about which song you are singing and nobody else... I'd say just forget it and go full magical archer.

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Originally Posted by Gobio

The fundamental problem of bard is who (as in which person) exactly care about the singing?

You can do all the changes on the surface to fool the bard player that your character is singing, but at the end of the day, if it is still balanced to the point that only you the bard care about which song you are singing and nobody else... I'd say just forget it and go full magical archer.

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Well ya thats the issue bard 2% bard 98% archer they need to give more musical flare to the presentation of bard it needs to be at least 30% Music 70% bow maybe even more in terms of music the concept can work I dont really like the idea of magic archer as much as a music bow hybrid because the Idea is solid it just needs more to sell the whole Idea.

buffing the party needs to be its primary role and while in someways it does that now its just passive and only you see your bar going it needs to be more noticeable like let everyone know they got the buff on them type of thing. I think this can be said with Dancer as well like show that the dance partner is getting the buff outside of the icon.

I just wish they would spin off a ranger variant and make it a selfish dps, snatch it's mobility and make it a ranged monster. you could make its lore basically a bard who saw their comrades go down because the song's didn't go above the screams of war, so instead of singing they decided to master killing instead.

bards feel like an afterthought right now, but at the same time have the potential to be the perfect support job or perfect ranged doombringer, I know yoshi-p said no more split jobs but archer is honestly begging for it.