Written script for NPC's and sudden use of contractions

I noticed a shift in the writing for 5.5. Some of the NPC's we've known for some time are suddenly using contractions such as I'll or don't when before it was I shall or do not.

For me the draw of this game was an older style of speech, it fit the world, it fits the characters. Urianger would not be himself without the Shakespearian. Most of the others however spoke a form of such. While not completely Shakespearian, it is mostly from the Elizabethan time period it would seem, in so far as my research has taken me. Some words are earlier periods, some later.

This new overuse of contractions however just feels lazy, like no care nor time was taken to properly write out the script per that character's speech pattern.

Some examples: "I shall remain here.", "I will bring"
to "I'll be reserving my strength."
Before: "I do not envy"
Now: "I don't seem."
Where they would say "Aye." is now "Yes."

Years of "Aye, I shall, I shan't, I will not, We have, etc" to a sudden "Yes, don't, I'll, I've. etc" All of this speaks of a lack of quality control and detail. To add to that the spoken portions of the character are familiar and in pattern, yet the non-vocalized are not.

The use of contractions prior seemed more a typo than the rule of thumb. Even so recently as 5.2 the writing was more or less consistent with how the characters spoke. Now... I near expect Urianger to begin using the words You in place of thee.

That's kind of a weird thing to notice let alone complain about. Which characters are you talking about? Off the top of my head, I know that some like Alisae have been using contractions since the very beginning. Besides, not even counting "poetic" contractions, contractions in English have been around since Shakespeare's time and he used stuff like "she'll", "she's" and "I'm".

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Originally Posted by Merrnryn

Now... I near expect Urianger to begin using the words You in place of thee.

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"You" and "thee" have been around for the same amount of time. "Thee" and "thou" are informal versions of the words "ye" and "you", while "ye" and "you" were used formally. Technically Urianger/the writers have been using it wrong this whole time. It's only considered "fancy" because those words were used in early English translations of the bible to refer to god as being approachable, and over time this has had the opposite effect since people stopped using "thee" and "thou" in normal conversation.

Genuinely makes me wonder two things:

1) how is the french/german text and does it follow "ye olde english" ( actually, with french being my first tongue, I could probably find out tonight at the inn by switching languages. I won't bother with Japanese because that's already the audio I listen to but I can't read it).

2) Seriously?

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

"You" and "thee" have been around for the same amount of time. "Thee" and "thou" are informal versions of the words "ye" and "you", while "ye" and "you" were used formally. Technically Urianger/the writers have been using it wrong this whole time. It's only considered "fancy" because those words were used in early English translations of the bible to refer to god as being approachable, and over time this has had the opposite effect since people stopped using "thee" and "thou" in normal conversation.

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Not exactly.

Urianger is only using thou/you incorrectly if you assume he's doing it to sound formal. It would probably be more accurate to say that players incorrectly think he is talking formally because he uses "thou".

He does use "you" occasionally in formal situations, such as addressing Feo Ul as "Your Majesty".

Also, it's not just a matter of thou being informal and you (or ye) being formal. They originated as single and plural forms, and only later the plural "you" picked up its second role as a formal singular pronoun (and eventually took over as the only one in general use).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ye_(pronoun)

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Originally Posted by Iscah

He does use "you" occasionally in formal situations, such as addressing Feo Ul as "Your Majesty".

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Mmm, "Your Majesty" is a bit of a tricky one as it's a form of address and needs to be used properly, even by an eccentric old coot who has spent far too much time in the tomes to turn his tone towards the Tudor.

In Tudor times, Henry VIII was sometimes "Your Grace", and sometimes "Your Majesty". Jacobean English is when this form of address really appeared.

Urianger can't even use proper olde faux english with any sort of consistency.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Not exactly.

Urianger is only using thou/you incorrectly if you assume he's doing it to sound formal. It would probably be more accurate to say that players incorrectly think he is talking formally because he uses "thou".

He does use "you" occasionally in formal situations, such as addressing Feo Ul as "Your Majesty".

Also, it's not just a matter of thou being informal and you (or ye) being formal. They originated as single and plural forms, and only later the plural "you" picked up its second role as a formal singular pronoun (and eventually took over as the only one in general use).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ye_(pronoun)

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One of the articles you linked just proves my point that he's using it wrong and that thou and you were used at the same time for different things.

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Starting in the 1300s, thou and thee were used to express familiarity, formality, contempt, for addressing strangers, superiors, inferiors, or in situations when indicating singularity to avoid confusion was needed; concurrently, the plural forms, ye and you began to also be used for singular: typically for addressing rulers, superiors, equals, inferiors, parents, younger persons, and significant others.

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There seems to be a bit of doubling-up there, but I've always generally heard that "thee" and "thou" were used for strangers and inferiors, while "ye" and "you" were used for equals and superiors. Considering the language of the setting, including Urianger's "older Eorzean" has moved on well past 1300s English, "you" as plural in the context of the way Urianger talks doesn't work anymore. It also doesn't make sense for him to just use "thou" for almost every situation and feels more like the writers are just trying to make him sound like he's trying to sound old fashioned.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Genuinely makes me wonder two things:

1) how is the french/german text and does it follow "ye olde english" ( actually, with french being my first tongue, I could probably find out tonight at the inn by switching languages. I won't bother with Japanese because that's already the audio I listen to but I can't read it).

2) Seriously?

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I'm guessing they don't. The whole (faux) ye olde English that US SE has been mandating has been an English-only thing since the mid 2000s. The Japanese script has none of this. The dialect variance is there but nothing ever to this level with a few exceptions.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Urianger can't even use proper olde faux english with any sort of consistency.

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Considering literally nobody else we've ever met across the length and breadth of the world(s) we've traversed speaks in any way remotely similar to Urianger, I can only conclude that he's genuinely doing it intentionally just to be difficult.

One of these days the act is going to slip and we'll finally learn his speech is actually more country yokel, and he just really wanted to sound smart.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

One of the articles you linked just proves my point that he's using it wrong and that thou and you were used at the same time for different things.

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Yes, of course they were used at the same time for different things. But sometimes that thing was single/plural and sometimes it was informal/formal.

It makes far more sense following the simpler single/plural rule, and in any case he's not often seen in formal situations or addressing groups so there's not much of a track record there.

Plus having followed up the reference for that that confusing and contradictory list of when you do and don't use thou/you for formality, it points to this "Middle English Compendium" which first lists "you" as being a plural noun before going into a list of where it may be used in single form.

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/middle-...onary/MED54032


The usage section of the Wikipedia article also has examples of Shakespeare using it inconsistently for formality, and mentions that the first English Bible translation in the 16th century uses thou for single and you for plural regardless of status.

So it's not that clear-cut and it does continue to be used for single/plural distinction, as it originated.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Mmm, "Your Majesty" is a bit of a tricky one as it's a form of address and needs to be used properly, even by an eccentric old coot who has spent far too much time in the tomes to turn his tone towards the Tudor.

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Eccentric young coot, really. He's only 29.

I'll have to double-check the script later. I have a feeling there was a "you" in there as well but it was when he was speaking Fae, and not enough script to see if the subtitles were keeping his usual way of speaking or just translating into modern English.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Eccentric young coot, really. He's only 29.

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Oh gosh! I always thought he was much, much older. Thanks :D

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Oh gosh! I always thought he was much, much older. Thanks :D

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Wellllll he was supposed to be ancient, somehow tied to Allag, but SE scraped that completely really early on.

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Originally Posted by Merrnryn

For me the draw of this game was an older style of speech, it fit the world, it fits the characters.

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Honestly, unless the setting is old England, trying to sound like non-modern English just doesn't sound right to me. In fact, as someone who lives in the US, I also prefer more medieval/fantasy setting to have US English accent, though I'm not against the British accent as well.

Using modern and non-colloquial words is also preferable to me.