Are most players in the middle?

There's recently been a lot of debate on whether the game should cater towards hardcore players or casual players.

I found this pie chart that gives an idea of the composition of player "styles".
https://www.mmogames.com/wp-content/...ts-560x207.jpg
(source)

The definition of "focused" in that survey is a player who "values the game and achieves goals within it quite highly". By this definition it definitely does not seem like they're casuals since they're hunting for achievements. But since they did not respond with "hardcore" they are probably not playing the game as much as hardcore players. I think this probably means that most people see themselves as somewhere in the middle. A silent majority, if you will :P

I'm curious what "focused" players do in this game though. If you would describe yourself as a "focused" player, what activities do you enjoy in the game? Do you do a bit of both hardcore and casual activities? Or are you as the name suggests, more focused on a specific part of the game that may be neither considered as hardcore nor considered as casual? I definitely look forward to hearing everyone's way of playing this game, since it seems that they're not particularly well-represented by the loud minorities on this forum!

That charts quite old (2017) but I also find it questionable because really what the hell is the difference between a "dedicated casual" and a "focussed" player? or a focussed player and mid core?

or even the difference between a pleb and a very casual player..

But a player who dedicates a lot of there time to crafting and a player who focusses on crafting are the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

That charts quite old (2017) but I also find it questionable because really what the hell is the difference between a "dedicated casual" and a "focussed" player? or a focussed player and mid core?

or even the difference between a pleb and a very casual player..

But a player who dedicates a lot of there time to crafting and a player who focusses on crafting are the same thing.

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Well, I'm guessing it's different types of focus. A dedicated casual focuses on casual content, a midcore player focuses on hardcore content, and a focused player on everything else?

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Originally Posted by SecretIsland

Well, I'm guessing it's different types of focus. A dedicated casual focuses on casual content, a midcore player focuses on hardcore content, and a focused player on everything else?

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If that was the case the chart should emphasise types of content over player style..

You have players for example who may basically only raid log. So where do you put them? If they're only logging in to raid and are only playing 4 or 5 hours a week that's pretty "casual."

If they're only interested in raiding that's pretty "focused". Or even "dedicated", wouldn't you say?

If they're knocking out Savage you might even label that "Hardcore".. being the top level content in the game (bar ultimate)

The same player then falls into so many of those categories that the terminology is far to broad to be considered accurate imo.

Most people are focused on their specific interests or casual, and there is a partial crossover in these two things. There are some hardcore players that do everything the moment it's available and you will see them all together the moment resets happen and right when a patch comes out. Because they play so much they will be the first ones to queue for all the new things, usually with their glowing relic weapons on display to show you just how much time they invest.

A lot of people are focused not by choice, but because they are forced to be, because they are still getting through the main story and there are parts of the game they can't actually do yet and plenty of things at the lower levels distract them from it, like glamour or the gold saucer.

It highly depends on the definition really, if focused is something between hardcore and casual it could make sense but again what defines casual and hardcore to begin with, different people have very different definitions for each.

When i play an mmorpg I could be described as both since I enjoy most forms of content including higher end content but it never reaches to the level of obsession we see in some tryhard metaslaves, I am doing high end content to experience it and for fun, not because my ego depends on clearing it asap.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

You have players for example who may basically only raid log. So where do you put them. F they're only logging into raid and only playing 4 or 5 hours a week that's pretty casual.

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this is my biggest issue with the word "casual", not just in this game but in any game. casual is such a vague term with often contradictory definitions. casual should be about time and effort invested into the game, not the skill level or content someone does

what even is "casual content" anyways? where does "casual" end? dungeons? *deep* dungeons? extreme trials? ...crafting? (ishgard rankings were anything but casual)

so yeah, if OP wants any meaningful information or discussion, the poll should use more objective criteria, such as how many hours a day/week they play, how many days/year theyre subbed, what content they do and with what frequency, what goals they might have in the game


in any case, most people ARE in the middle. thats just how statistics work

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Originally Posted by QooEr

this is my biggest issue with the word "casual", not just in this game but in any game. casual is such a vague term with often contradictory definitions. casual should be about time and effort invested into the game, not the skill level or content someone does

what even is "casual content" anyways? where does "casual" end? dungeons? *deep* dungeons? extreme trials? ...crafting? (ishgard rankings were anything but casual)

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i was going to put something like this in my post to be honest as i wholy agree.

People look at the word "casual" and see the word "easy" which is an all to common mistake. people who play gaems casually still like challenges and stuff.

making content "casual friendly" should simply mean making it accessible, not making it easy... Savage raiding for example is very casual friendy content. (in theory at least) log in when you have an hour or 2. queue the raidfinder and go..
You can see this on the JP side as its a very successful tool. but over here in the west its a totally different story.

but thats a player issue not a content one.

I don't consider myself hardcore, because I don't participate in world first races and I don't do current tier savage prog because I genuinely dislike it. (I'm doing a very very slow prog through Eden Savage with a casual group, one lockout a week, and we're picking our way through E7S right now. Yay, I finally learned how to aim the teleports!) And I don't do ultimates.

I do, however, chase down achievements like they were actual money. I love racking up the equivalent of a high score. I also collect relics and anima weapons because they're pretty! By the definition of this chart, I'm focused, but I'm most definitely not hardcore. I pace myself, and I don't play until I'm sick. I just put in a few hours daily picking my way toward a goal.

Have to agree it depends 100% on the definition. As what is hardcore and what is casual has changed drastically over time, and depending on which mmo you came from it was completely different. For example FFXI hardcore was waking up at 3am on a work day to camp a dragon for 3hrs, then log in after work to do 5-6hrs of guild events 7 days a week with mandatory attendance policies from the guild. I have seen other say hardcore is all about mentality and how you manage your time. I seen others equate hardcore as those who can beat the hardest content in the game.

Personally I would say it is a combination of the 3. (Overall playtime, difficulty of content you focus on, and Mindset in general)

1) Cannot be hardcore and play 5-10hrs a week, I do not care if you are clearing the hardest content every week in that time... that is still a casual play schedule in terms of time. (Personally I would say < 20hrs of weekly playtime = casual, 20-34 hrs a week is mid-core, 35hrs + is hardcore)

2) Cannot be hardcore and only do the easy, insta-win, fluff content. Since that is 100% designed for the casual player base. (Top tier progression = hardcore content, content with massive time gating that requires a huge investment in time is hardcore, while fluff and achievement hunting are casual centric content typically)

3) You are not hardcore if the game is not a priority in your life. (Hardcores schedule as much of their RL around the game as possible.. aka thier class/job schedule around raids and things such as that. Midcores schedule stuff on specific days typically. Casuals log in when ever without a set schedule when they have the free time and nothing going on in RL. Hardcores play to maximize progression of both themselves and team/guild... casual just play the game for fun with no true focus and progression comes when it comes.)


I would say the games player base is highly highly skewed into the casual spectrum as ffxiv is one of if not the most casual focused AAA mmos out there. And I would say 95%+ of the games playerbase is casual or at most midcore simply because the game requires you to be. By Yoshida's own admission this is not a game you are suppose to no-life. You are suppose to take break when you run out of content. You cannot 50hrs week+ endgame progression in this game for more then a few weeks before you burn thorough 100% of the content.

As for the chart, what the hell is focused? In my eyes you are Casual, Mid-Core, or Hardcore. Never heard anyone call anyone a Focused MMO player before. Focused I guess could fit in any category depending on what you are focused on.

I find this pie chart is needless and doesn't actually represent or mean much. Asking just 687 players and trying to make it representative of anything in a community this large is just pointless. Utterly meaningless. But then I don't expect much given the labels attached to the pie chart...

In any case, the game's design should in general be focused more on the larger demographic.

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Originally Posted by SecretIsland

There's recently been a lot of debate on whether the game should cater towards hardcore players or casual players.

I found this pie chart that gives an idea of the composition of player "styles".
https://www.mmogames.com/wp-content/...ts-560x207.jpg
(source)

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I wouldn't trust this chart. The only people that would choose "pleb" are doing so as a joke.

I would say most players are focused casuals. And by that I mean they don't take the game too seriously but they're decent enough to be fine in normal modes, and do have goals they work towards.

Casualis a lot of things if you only play the game to play savage and ultimates, then you are a casual player.... ifyou are broad spectrum everyday player and often too much as well... then you go into the hardcore area.

I assume a good many people are conditioned to equate the word "hardcore" with "aggressively chasing end-game content/cutting-edge gear/world first raid clear" specifically, just because that's what that specific term has referred to in most other MMOs.

I think many would see "casual" as more "plays fewer hours a week, more for leisure than for challenge, dabbles a little bit in many/most of the game's different offerings as the mood strikes".

Thus, I would see them interpreting "focused" as "May or may not dabble a bit in other aspects of the game as a casual would, but spends the bulk of their time and energy (perhaps even as much time/energy as a "hardcore" would spend on their raiding) on one specific aspect of the game that is NOT raiding (which is why they did not choose "hardcore").

You know. These are the people who spend almost every second of their game time gathering and/or crafting. Or the ones who love playing the market above all, seeing how many of millions of gil they can amass through intelligent flipping without actually crafting or producing anything. Or the ones who do countless runs through old content to get that ONE elusive drop that would *perfectly* compliment the latest glam they've thrown together. Or they're endlessly hunting those last few rarest minions and/or mounts to complete their ALMOST FULL collection.

Just my two cents.

... a bit too simplistic for my tastes, we'll have to dive deeper into the details.

I prefer this one here:
https://i1.wp.com/quanticfoundry.com...tion-map-1.png

And the source:
https://quanticfoundry.com/2015/12/2...g-motivations/

For a short version, there are three "primary motivation" groups:

• Action-Social (red group)
• Mastery-Achievement (blue group)
• Immersion-Creativity (yellow group)

An interesting observation is that "Mastery-Achievement" sits in the middle of the other two... and most closely corresponds to the the activities outlined by the game itself. Tasks to do, goals to achieve, how to do them, and how hard they are; all things which are pretty "tangible" in the sense they are readily identified as specific things within the game itself. As such, I like to think of it as the "game-space" where everyone from all sides of the spectrum interact.

I think the casual-hardcore divide as we know it today is actually better represented by the division between the "Immersion-Creativity" and "Action-Social" groups respectively, both of which have pretty minimal overlap... though by definition, it's actually closer to to how much they're leaning into "Mastery-Achievement" group (and how much they're into the nuts & bolts of a game as a result).

The "Action-Social" group tends to correspond more with the "hardcore" crowd, largely because of the competition and power functions. They'll quite readily get into aspects like challenge and strategy, mostly in service of the other two functions and to that end; it seems quite rare that someone is into those purely for the sake of the actual challenge and joy of figuring stuff out, it's because they want something out of it and to assert dominance using those things.

The "Immersion-Creativity" group corresponds more with the "casual" crowd... and I think they have stronger preference for solitude (don't mind interacting with people, but don't actively need to be doing so constantly). I also tend to think this is the group which prefers many of the "traditional RPG" aspects, and get a lot out of FFXIV in particular. Customization and expression are big draws, and they actually like messing around in a sandbox instead of constantly chasing something. However, I think they have a love of puzzles (strategy) and have a strong completionist instinct; this may come from the "discovery" function, which is a desire to see and understand everything they can.

... but when you really get down to it, "casual" and "hardcore" are probably more in-tune with the "Mastery-Achievement" group and getting into the nitty-gritty of the game itself. The divide we see is a misnomer, as it comes from how closely each side comes from the other two groups.

And I hope that rambling response makes sense.

Some definitions of casual:

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- relaxed and unconcerned
- made or done without much thought or premeditation
- done or acting in a desultory way (desultory means lacking a plan, purpose, or enthusiasm)
- done or acting without sufficient care or thoroughness

- not regular or permanent
- employed or established on a temporary or irregular basis
- (of a sexual relationship or encounter) occurring between people who are not regular or established sexual partners

- happening by chance; accidental

- without formality of style or manner, in particular (of clothing) suitable for everyday wear rather than formal occasions

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In theory, all of FFXIV group PVE contents can fit many if not all those definitions (sex and clothing not applied directly, of course).

However, in practice, people's expectation (especially in the NA data center) can make them not casual, and a clear division can be seen between content that people will normally do without the use of party finder and contents that people will normally do with the use of party finder. I would consider the former to be casual content, in general, while the latter to be non-casual content, in general.

Extreme trial may be unique in that it can be difficult enough to warrant people using the party finder, but at the same time, farming mounts from it is also better with a fixed group, so a party finder is recommended either way. So maybe extreme trial content can be seen as a midway content between casual and non-casual.

Also, I use non-casual instead of hardcore because hardcore does not seem to fit well when used in comparison unless in a very specific application.

Some definitions of hardcore:

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- Intensely loyal; die-hard
- Stubbornly resistant to improvement or change
- Extremely graphic or explicit

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So, the only way the term "hardcore vs casual" (or vice versa) makes sense is if you define hardcore as being committed (loyal) while casual just means you're not committed (matches with doing things irregularly or temporarily). If you're raiding in a static, you're a hardcore member of the team. If you are pugging or you move around between statics, you're casual. If you're dedicated to raiding even if it means pugging, then you're a hardcore raider. If you try to raid, then take breaks often when pf fails you, then you're a casual raider.

So this applies to any content. If you're dedicated to doing roulettes every day, then you're hardcore at doing casual group PVE content.

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Originally Posted by Raelsar

... a bit too simplistic for my tastes, we'll have to dive deeper into the details.

I prefer this one here:
https://i1.wp.com/quanticfoundry.com...tion-map-1.png

And the source:
https://quanticfoundry.com/2015/12/2...g-motivations/

For a short version, there are three "primary motivation" groups:

• Action-Social (red group)
• Mastery-Achievement (blue group)
• Immersion-Creativity (yellow group)

An interesting observation is that "Mastery-Achievement" sits in the middle of the other two... and most closely corresponds to the the activities outlined by the game itself. Tasks to do, goals to achieve, how to do them, and how hard they are; all things which are pretty "tangible" in the sense they are readily identified as specific things within the game itself. As such, I like to think of it as the "game-space" where everyone from all sides of the spectrum interact.

I think the casual-hardcore divide as we know it today is actually better represented by the division between the "Immersion-Creativity" and "Action-Social" groups respectively, both of which have pretty minimal overlap... though by definition, it's actually closer to to how much they're leaning into "Mastery-Achievement" group (and how much they're into the nuts & bolts of a game as a result).

The "Action-Social" group tends to correspond more with the "hardcore" crowd, largely because of the competition and power functions. They'll quite readily get into aspects like challenge and strategy, mostly in service of the other two functions and to that end; it seems quite rare that someone is into those purely for the sake of the actual challenge and joy of figuring stuff out, it's because they want something out of it and to assert dominance using those things.

The "Immersion-Creativity" group corresponds more with the "casual" crowd... and I think they have stronger preference for solitude (don't mind interacting with people, but don't actively need to be doing so constantly). I also tend to think this is the group which prefers many of the "traditional RPG" aspects, and get a lot out of FFXIV in particular. Customization and expression are big draws, and they actually like messing around in a sandbox instead of constantly chasing something. However, I think they have a love of puzzles (strategy) and have a strong completionist instinct; this may come from the "discovery" function, which is a desire to see and understand everything they can.

... but when you really get down to it, "casual" and "hardcore" are probably more in-tune with the "Mastery-Achievement" group and getting into the nitty-gritty of the game itself. The divide we see is a misnomer, as it comes from how closely each side comes from the other two groups.

And I hope that rambling response makes sense.

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Wow, what a neat graphic and analysis! Thanks for sharing.

for someone saying they arent a troll and not liking drama, you certainly post enough threads designed to encourage that directly.

Weird pie chart, but I would wager the vast majority of the playerbase is either casual or "mid-core". There's never really a good reason to cater a game explicitly to hard core players, as they don't compromise the majority of the playerbase. Anecdotal: A lot of hard core players I know will take large breaks from the game as well periodically, and play for essentially brief, but intense bursts. This is totally fine, but not the ideal player most MMOs want to cater to. They want the casual player who is content paying a sub even if they're only playing a few times a week, versus a player who plays extensively but pauses their sub for a month or three many times in a year.

Kinda feel sorry for hardcore they only have like 4 trials while everything else is for casual or hyper casual

Hi there! There is a pretty wide spectrum of players out there, and I guess the important part is that goals absolutely change at the drop of a hat.

If I had to say for myself, I am a textbook example of dedicated casual. I play the game almost every day without fail, even if it’s only 30 min doing daily stuff. I have all jobs at cap, but my highest iLVL always hovers around the most current raid series. For me, as long as I can clear everything with a story, I don’t care about having better gear.

I am more along the very casual, meaning I play 15 days, then the other 15 tend to go to waste while playing another mmo lol.

I would wager most people who play XIV are FF fans to some extent, so "Focused" is not shocking.

I doubt people who never played a FF game will pick up XIV and play it

(Inb4 'XIV was my 1st XIV game,' hehehe.......I feel everyone played at least 1 FF game before XIV, Unless you are like 14 or something.....no pun intended btw)