How difficult is Ultimate?

There's that one person who keeps talking about Ultimate on the forums... so I got curious and looked it up. Apparently there are three Ultimate fights in the entire game and they seem pretty complicated and look really cool. A lot of what was going on went over my head though so I can't tell how hard it is. I'm wondering how hard Ultimate actually is. Is it something that only the 1% can tackle, or is it accessible to any good player in the game? How long does it take?

they are marathon fights that are simultaniously harder and less stressful than savage. A lot of the challenge comes from recognising and executing perfectly the loooooonnnggg list of complex mechanics while being able to put out sufficient dps since there's lots of checks

its easier as in there's less stress as you don't have weekly lockouts, but harder because you need ot be skilled and execute perfect coordination

they are also a visual and audio spectacle.

The hardest part of ultimate though is, like savage, finding a competent group

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

they are marathon fights that are simultaniously harder and less stressful than savage. A lot of the challenge comes from recognising and executing perfectly the loooooonnnggg list of complex mechanics while being able to put out sufficient dps since there's lots of checks

its easier as in there's less stress as you don't have weekly lockouts, but harder because you need ot be skilled and execute perfect coordination

they are also a visual and audio spectacle.

The hardest part of ultimate though is, like savage, finding a competent group

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Thanks for the information! Only just completed the game and it seems like there's a lot of challenging post game content which sounds awesome.

Havent done any since I am pretty new but I am guessing they are near a similar level to wow mythic raids, someone who has done both can correct me.

So a good player should definitely able to do it, the thing is with raids you arent the only one taking part in them, so you ll need to find a big group of similarly good players to actually beat it which was always the biggest obstacle to high end mmorpg group content like this.

Good players can do it, there is no 1% skill elite, the issue starts when certain players whose ego depends on video game achievements end up obsessing and minmaxing so much they act as if they are somekind of godlike 1% while in reality all they are is just obsessed metaslaves who arent anything special but are often toxic to the community if let to spread.

Thankfully ff14 is far better balanced and the community is much better so this is far less of an issue here thankfully.

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Originally Posted by Ralph2449

Havent done any since I am pretty new but I am guessing they are near a similar level to wow mythic raids, someone who has done both can correct me.

So a good player should definitely able to do it, the thing is with raids you arent the only one taking part in them, so you ll need to find a big group of similarly good players to actually beat it which was always the biggest obstacle to high end mmorpg group content like this.

Good players can do it, there is no 1% skill elite, the issue starts when certain players whose ego depends on video game achievements end up obsessing and minmaxing so much they act as if they are somekind of godlike 1% while in reality all they are is just obsessed metaslaves who arent anything special but are often toxic to the community if let to spread.

Thankfully ff14 is far better balanced and the community is much better so this is far less of an issue here thankfully.

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If my friend's UCoB static is indicative of the normality then I would argue commitment is the biggest factor, in combination with tenacity or lack thereof. So, likemindedness in effect.

If you put anyone in any given encounter or situation then learning and competency is just a matter of time, irrespective of how incompetent or challenged they are before that point. Just another curve.

Harder than a savage fight but if a person like me that generally sucks at videogames (no joke) has cleared all three of them I guess they are not that difficult
The real struggle is finding a group of 8 people that is actually willing to spend a good chunk of hours progging each fight (we are talking about anything that ranges between 40-100 hours depending on skill and off-raid study)
My advice is to just try and find a static and see for yourself whether Ultimates are for you or not, in the end it's just you who can gauge the difficulty.
Keep in mind that these type of fights have also become easier because of the level sync (UCoB and UWU) and i475 dungeon gear/relic weapons (TEA)

A group of thanks has done it, so rated out from that, not hard or difficult, also devaluates the worth of the title.

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Originally Posted by Ralph2449

Havent done any since I am pretty new but I am guessing they are near a similar level to wow mythic raids, someone who has done both can correct me.

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Basically imagine Mythic Ashara but with literally no addons and only 8 people. ok....well in theory no addons but everyone who does ultimate uses ACT for dps and another thing that mimics DBM timings and call outs.

Ultimate is still largely a game of memorization as with savage.

The main problem is the fights are longer and the mechanics happen almost non-stop with little time to breathe until towards the end where they usually relent a bit.

It's really just
"can you do your rotation while doing non-stop mechanics for 20 minutes"
Like if you had to do an entire tier of savage from 1-4 in one go - no breaks, with no to very few deaths (at the right time), on fast forward. and if you wipe, it's back to boss 1.


It just takes time to bash your face against the content while you and 7 others find out what parts give you trouble and how to fix them all at once.
You gotta have patience and humility and the will to keep truckin'.

Not that hard tbh just requires consistency.

I just wish that square stops making it sound like it's a super difficult thing only meant for the 1%. That's just stupid. There's so many legends that I wouldn't be surprised if at least 20% of active players cleared at least one.

uwu right now is like a savage difficulty at most. There's not many hard mechanics aside from titan gaol and the dps check in sb ultimates are a complete joke right now

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Originally Posted by MPK

Not that hard tbh just requires consistency.

I just wish that square stops making it sound like it's a super difficult thing only meant for the 1%.

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A lot of people keep saying that as well (only 1%) while he have no concrete data.

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Originally Posted by SecretIsland

There's that one person who keeps talking about Ultimate on the forums... so I got curious and looked it up. Apparently there are three Ultimate fights in the entire game and they seem pretty complicated and look really cool. A lot of what was going on went over my head though so I can't tell how hard it is. I'm wondering how hard Ultimate actually is. Is it something that only the 1% can tackle, or is it accessible to any good player in the game? How long does it take?

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Ultimates are all about memorizing mechanics and executing them correctly. As far as DPS checks, most are relatively lenient in them. However, screwing up certain mechanics means a wipe, and repeated deaths—especially for core members like healers or tanks—usually means chances of recovery are slim (depending on where said deaths happened).

Honestly, the fights are not difficult in terms of their mechanics. Even with the ones that you cannot afford to screw up. The difficulty comes from trying to find a group good enough and in-sync enough to clear the fights, as well as in finding endurance to handle repeated wipes. From wiping to the final phase to enrage to the first boss in the gauntlet. It’s very common to reach enrage or near-enrage one pull...and then spend the next two hours dying to the first boss. It’s incredibly frustrating to be so close, and then get nowhere for several pulls in a row; or get 15 minutes into an 18 minute fight, and wipe. And this happens even with groups that have players that have cleared the fights. It’s just part of the encounter.

Ultimate is, ultimately, an endurance test for yourself and your static mates.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

A group of thanks has done it, so rated out from that, not hard or difficult, also devaluates the worth of the title.

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Just because a group of extremely good players cleared UCoB with 8 tanks doesn’t devalue the title for those who cleared with a standard comp and earned the title. The people who have done 8 tank Ultimate clears are some of the best players in the game—they have done the fights multiple times; hundreds of times. An Ultimate clear is an Ultimate clear at the end of the day.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

A lot of people keep saying that as well (only 1%) while he have no concrete data.

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It's kind of a problem in raiding scenes in general and why developers are putting more "casual" (read: faceroll) versions of content.
People call raiding, no matter what game, a hardcore scene meant for no-lifers.
Is it considered the most difficult content in the game? if yes, then that obviously means it's impossible to get into if you don't have 5 hours a night to dedicate to raiding, and if you're not the most shining perfect example of your role from the get-go.
Doesn't matter that it's only the most difficult content because it's the only bit of content in the game with a fail-state that requires co-ordination to beat.
And it doesn't help that a lot of insecure raiders who want to think they're hot stuff try to scare off newbies with this hardcore bravado.

I have been a mentor in a lot of raiding groups in various games, and the first thing I have to do with every newbie is beat the idea out of their head, that raiding is exclusively for hardcore no-lifers.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

A lot of people keep saying that as well (only 1%) while he have no concrete data.

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From the Lucky Census a while back, I believe the estimated numbers of active characters who have cleared.

UCoB: 1. 89%
UwU: 5.6%
TEA: 6%ish

The general average seems to be 5%. UCoB being the lowest makes sense due to its sheer length (clocking in at 17-18 minutes).

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

From the Lucky Census a while back, I believe the estimated numbers of active characters who have cleared.

UCoB: 1. 89%
UwU: 5.6%
TEA: 6%ish

The general average seems to be 5%. UCoB being the lowest makes sense due to its sheer length (clocking in at 17-18 minutes).

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One wonders how many of these clears were purchased.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

One wonders how many of these clears were purchased.

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Not nearly as many as you’re wanting to insinuate.

Fairly easy, just open your wallet. Don't tell SE and poof, you get the title. Theres plenty of PF listing for it 24/7 that never get a second thought from the GMs. Who doesn't like microtransactions. Its just like getting a jump potion...

Unfortunately, finding 7 people who are equally competent at mechanics and with the time to spare is actually harder than the fights in this game. People who clear these things were lucky enough to find the right team.

It's not that hard you just have to put in a lot of effort frequently to memorize 20 minutes of fight, as a group, meanwhile making very few mistakes while playing your class above average. . . lol. (Speaking ultimate, savage is a lot less to memorize- honestly just get a PF and you're well on your way for that content, good luck in DF until huge echo buffs though and then good luck again once enough people who learned it stop queuing for it xD).

It's true if you did those steps it isn't but for many people that is just a big no thanks, even if you make them realize 'they could'. It's like saying Dark Souls or Sekiro (Sekiro specifically) isn't that hard, sure if you learn to parry it's actually easy to look like a god. Now get the average person to become a master at parry.

It's not going to happen no matter how kind of a teacher you are. There will be some who learn because you were welcoming but no matter the instance of quality teacher it'll never become a majority content unless you've already made your audience focus that niche in the first place.

What makes Ultimate hard is it requires you put in above average effort. If you're a person willing to do that, then it certainly is achievable. I would strongly wager, no matter if Yoshida literally held everyone's hand individually to help them do the fight, the majority is not going to want to put in that effort. Naturally this is why mods like DBM (WoW) and the thing that must not be named in FFXIV are fairly popular as it quite literally makes it take less effort to win (basically cut your memorization down either entirely or almost entirely, then you just have to actually play your job right and get others to do the same- which still takes enough effort that the minority does this content lol).

Ultimates are fun with a good group, the endgame content lul from here until 6.0 is likely going to bring up the ultimate clear percentages since there is no other challenging content after one clears E12S Oracle of Darkness. If you are regularly clearing savage tiers, it's good idea to try to challenge the ultimates. Sometimes it can help push your game play boundaries a little further.

UwU is the most lenient in terms of being alive and dps checks, as you can pick up a lot towards the finish versus say TEA where not 8/8 not being alive at several key times is going to be wipes. Granted after a period of time the +5 ilvl cap boost gives a little wiggle room to farms and newer groups to make a better BiS to challenge them, like some dungeon gear from Heroes Gauntlet surpasses Eden's Gate Savage gear for TEA.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

From the Lucky Census a while back, I believe the estimated numbers of active characters who have cleared.

UCoB: 1. 89%
UwU: 5.6%
TEA: 6%ish

The general average seems to be 5%. UCoB being the lowest makes sense due to its sheer length (clocking in at 17-18 minutes).

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Yep, I posted this TEA clears graph in that previous ultimate cancelled thread. It's getting a bit old but I think it describes very well why some in NA doesn't think there are many clears. It's just simply living in bubble mentality, or being on Crystal I guess:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EexkoV4X...png&name=large

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Originally Posted by technole

Yep, I posted this TEA clears graph in that previous ultimate cancelled thread. It's getting a bit old but I think it describes very well why some in NA doesn't think there are many clears. It's just simply living in bubble mentality, or being on Crystal I guess:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EexkoV4X...png&name=large

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Those are small numbers though, compared to the overall population. It's not a bubble ;/

I mean maybe you look at that and think "hardest content in the game and look at that, 10,000+ characters!!" but I look at that and go "10,000 still the minority". Which doesn't mean the content shouldn't exist (honestly does seem like a bummer- ideally everyone is getting it all.. cause.. why not right?, if it was content I had really wanted that was cut I would feel a bit miffed about it), but I think its quite accurate to call that as not very many clears.

Averaging it all together (with population considerations) leaves ultimate around like 1 - 2% of the population, last time I saw this done at least. Even if it is now like 5-8%, that's still very small. And being careful with the math as I saw last time someone was trying to directly average the % rather than account for server size differences (Japanese would boost the average, Crystal tanks it lol). That and I also saw some use of data that would clearly be biased since it was for those who specifically wanted to track their achievements (so they could get the achievements they don't have, making it a place for achievement hunters and not the general population- which explains why those sites often have larger numbers than Lucky Bancho who as far as I know crawls the lodestone pages).

Of course only SE really has the best data, since they could work out the accounts as well. Maybe it's even more since account based it's not repeating much or.. maybe it's even worse and it's many players who played one character doing it again on another. Which if we go by their actions suggests that what people say is probably accurate (wouldn't cut / delay so much a content that was massively desired by a large portion of the community unless you were crazy, assuming they're not crazy then makes the content likely to be minority content).

Although I know this comes around to being a bit frustrating since there are some players who do really enjoy the content and then they have people saying "you're the minority so you don't deserve to have that content made" (paraphrasing), which to be clear is not what I'm saying. I really want to have chocobo hot and cold but honestly I'm not sure how many want that with me lol. Ultimately I just want to say that it does seem quite accurate to maintain the idea that 'few players take part in that content' (not a bubble). The vast majority of players are not doing ultimate, but that doesn't mean ultimate doesn't have a home. Just like there are few Roe or Hroth (honestly I think there would be more Hroth than roe if we had females lol), but I think it's good you've got the big burly man and thic--.. strong girl and as well the beast race even though they will never compare to miqote.

The numbers are definitely higher than luckybancho's scrapes simply because not everyone has their achievements public. So any capture outside of SE is simply the low mean at-best. TEA clears is probably more so around 6-7%+ of the population.

We also have compared people who are eligible for ultimate by those who have the savage mount and that's another sample set to get a fuller pictures because there are many who have tried ultimate and don't clear. Maybe they had meaningful prog and their group blew up, many go on to find another group or pause their progress until they get time again. The beauty of ultimate content is it never expires, since you can't unsync or cheese it. There is always groups recruiting for any of these, at any point. So the numbers just will simply go up and up. You can't say well only 5% clear, not worth it. It doesn't work that way. Savage content expires every 6 months, the 3 ultimates never will expire.

Obviously the Japanese data centers take raiding much seriously than NA/EU combined. Gilgamesh and Levi have always been NA sever standouts simply because the hardcore players migrated to these servers before XPF ever existed. Regional perspectives on the game have always differed, it's just a fact and people still have this bubble mentality that raiding is just a small part of the game yet every JP server has near 30% clear rates of savage.

Difficulty is subjective. I might see ultimates as being easy, you might see them as being extremely difficult. The best way to find out is to try it out for yourself and see how you like it.

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Originally Posted by SecretIsland

There's that one person who keeps talking about Ultimate on the forums... so I got curious and looked it up. Apparently there are three Ultimate fights in the entire game and they seem pretty complicated and look really cool. A lot of what was going on went over my head though so I can't tell how hard it is. I'm wondering how hard Ultimate actually is. Is it something that only the 1% can tackle, or is it accessible to any good player in the game? How long does it take?

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Like all hardcore raids it’s just a memory/muscle memory/coordination test. Remember what happens for all 10 minutes and get a shiny weapon and title that means very little because most of the people who have them bought them with RMT.

Probably the hardest thing will be finding a group who want to do it, without the inevitable one/two people who will be super slow to get it and fail every mechanic. Honestly not fun to me, but good luck if you’re going to try.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Not nearly as many as you’re wanting to insinuate.

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Where is your data to back up this claim? There are constant posts in party finder selling ultimate clears.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

Where is your data to back up this claim? There are constant posts in party finder selling ultimate clears.

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No, no. The burden of proof is on you since you're the one making a claim here. People advertising in PF doesn't necessarily equate to sales.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

No, no. The burden of proof is on you since you're the one making a claim here. People advertising in PF doesn't equate to sells.

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People advertising in PF doesn't equate to sales? Do you read what you type?

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Originally Posted by SecretIsland

Thanks for the information! Only just completed the game and it seems like there's a lot of challenging post game content which sounds awesome.

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You really need to train in savage content first before considering tacking on ultimates fights. Once you ve completed like 1 or 2 savage tiers you can start considering progging ultimate fights. The required skill to learn is how to memorize the encounters of FFXIV. As ultimates fights are marathon fights the amount of memorization for each fight is higher than in savage content.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

People advertising in PF doesn't equate to sales? Do you read what you type?

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I meant to put "necessarily". In any event, the point is fairly obvious. You aren't guarantee to sell something because you posted an advertisement. Nevertheless, the burden of proof remains on you.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

Where is your data to back up this claim? There are constant posts in party finder selling ultimate clears.

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Just because there are advertisements doesn’t mean people are answering them. You see them every day. Do you answer them?

I don’t doubt that people have bought clears. I just don’t think it’s nearly the number you’re wanting to insinuate. But if you think it’s so significant, then I can wait for you to provide data backing up your claim. The burden of proof falls on you. :)

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I meant to put "necessarily". In any event, the point is fairly obvious. You aren't guarantee to sell something because you posted an advertisement. Nevertheless, the burden of proof remains on you.

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The PF ads and RMT sites isn’t proof that most people are buying ultimate clears. I understand that.

But it’s evidence that they at least find it worthwhile to advertise that service. Also where is all the ‘legit’ ultimate stuff. Forum threads discussing it, comments on YouTube strategy videos etc? You’d think a popular feature would get talked about more.

The lack of buzz around ultimate in general doesn’t seem to tally with the hundreds of people who show up on patch day with the weapon and title, usually not in a FC who is doing that content.

People buy clears. It’s obvious, but hard to prove numbers. I think you know this as well as i do.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

The PF ads and RMT sites isn’t proof that most people are buying ultimate clears. I understand that.

But it’s evidence that they at least find it worthwhile to advertise that service. Also where is all the ‘legit’ ultimate stuff. Forum threads discussing it, comments on YouTube strategy videos etc? You’d think a popular feature would get talked about more.

The lack of buzz around ultimate in general doesn’t seem to tally with the hundreds of people who show up on patch day with the weapon and title, usually not in a FC who is doing that content.

People buy clears. It’s obvious, but hard to prove numbers. I think you know this as well as i do.

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There was no shortage of “buzz” when each Ultimate released. FFXIV trended on Twitch during each week each Ultimate came out—and Ultimate is the most attention this game has ever seen on that platform. Sure, there isn’t much attention surrounding it now, but that doesn’t mean that it wasn’t discussed heavily when each fight first came out. I remember when UCoB released during 4.1 and people on here were praising it as a wonderful spectacle (even the non-raiders!!!)—and some complained that it was unfair a “story mode” didn’t exist, and even that they had to clear Neo-Exdeath to try out the fight. When UwU came out, people praised it as well. People watch the prog on Twitch—and they did it for all three.

There’s less talk about all of them now because they’re older content—and also given how we’re very quickly approaching pre-expansion lull, a lot of people aren’t necessarily paying attention to this game at all. But the fights are still done to this day. Just because something isn’t discussed doesn’t mean it wasn’t a success. I don’t really hear people discussing older Extremes or Eureka anymore, but they were discussed quite a bit when they were relevant. Especially on here.

Just because people have the title and are in an FC that doesn’t advertise hardcore content doesn’t mean they bought their clears. My FC is very small, but I didn’t buy any of mine. I’ve raided with people in RP-heavy FCs in both UCoB and UwU. The type of FC you’re in doesn’t really matter, since statics can be independent of them. There are plenty of raiders that don’t raid within their Free Company.

No one is denying that some people buy their clears—and it’s very easy to tell who they are as they will always lack a log for the encounter. But the insinuation that it’s any significant portion of the clears is a reach. Not that many groups even sell the content, so how could they possibly sell a significant portion of clears to the playerbase. It’s more common for people to purchase Savage clears.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

The PF ads and RMT sites isn’t proof that most people are buying ultimate clears. I understand that.

But it’s evidence that they at least find it worthwhile to advertise that service. Also where is all the ‘legit’ ultimate stuff. Forum threads discussing it, comments on YouTube strategy videos etc? You’d think a popular feature would get talked about more.

The lack of buzz around ultimate in general doesn’t seem to tally with the hundreds of people who show up on patch day with the weapon and title, usually not in a FC who is doing that content.

People buy clears. It’s obvious, but hard to prove numbers. I think you know this as well as i do.

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That "buzz" is back in 2019-2020 when TEA released. It's almost like there has been a two year wait and many people have long since cleared TEA.

When content isn't in the spotlight, it tends to be talked about less. Imagine if the Firmament had a single update in 5.1 and that was it. You'd never hear more than two words about it because, well... it's considered older content. At release, Ultimate garners more views and attention on Twitch than any other piece of content in this game's entire history, MSO included. For reference sake, FFXIV pulled ahead of WoW when UCoB released, something that never happened prior.

As HyoMin mentioned, we're rapidly approaching a massive content lull. Not to mention, many players interested in Ultimate aren't necessarily playing because they cancelled the expected 5.51 release. Put simply, you aren't hearing much about Ultimate because there hasn't been one in a very long time.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

As HyoMin mentioned, we're rapidly approaching a massive content lull.

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Personally we are already in a content lull now, will have stuff soon in April, then will continue the lull again a bit after that until Endwalker.

When I see people calling Ultimate easy begs the question. Did they clear while it was current with no Higher Ilvl gear avalible or did they cheese it and clear after better gear came out? If you cleared while it was relevant brag away if not then you got no business calling it easy. I am someone who as a gamer has cheesed and cheated at more then my fair share of games and I dont call games I have cheesed or cheated at easy.

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Originally Posted by Infindox

Personally we are already in a content lull now, will have stuff soon in April, then will continue the lull again a bit after that until Endwalker.

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Oh, I agree. Shadowbringers is more or less over, sadly. We have whatever's left of Bozja and an EX Primal as "repeatable" content. It's going to be a very long lull to considering Endwalker likely won't come until September or October. Frankly, there just isn't enough to do but that's a whole separate topic.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

When I see people calling Ultimate easy begs the question. Did they clear while it was current with no Higher Ilvl gear avalible or did they cheese it and clear after better gear came out? If you cleared while it was relevant brag away if not then you got no business calling it easy. I am someone who as a gamer has cheesed and cheated at more then my fair share of games and I dont call games I have cheesed or cheated at easy.

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It's challenging content, that's proven across the board otherwise the clear rates would be up there with savage.

I do agree there is a difference sense of people calling ultimate "easy" when they didn't clear it during the same savage tier it came out. Like if you cleared all three in 2020, that's a bit different. There is the after-effect of clearing later like I mentioned of having better dungeon gear with the +5 ilvl, and better strats that have been tried and proven to cut down on DPS checks, and to allow for more errors. Like UwU nowadays you can practically add up dead bodies over time and still be comfy on enrage. Not to cut down the accomplishment, just people calling it easy is not telling the full story.

Same ordeal with people who cleared Eden's Verse last tier in i500 gear will say the tier is easy versus the first month gang that had to work their way up with early strats and ilvl. Like some healers got a wake up call when Eden's Promise came out and they realized they actually needed to heal at min ilvl.

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Originally Posted by technole

It's challenging content, that's proven across the board otherwise the clear rates would be up there with savage.

I do agree there is a difference sense of people calling ultimate "easy" when they didn't clear it during the same savage tier it came out. Like if you cleared all three in 2020, that's a bit different. There is the after-effect of clearing later like I mentioned of having better dungeon gear with the +5 ilvl, and better strats that have been tried and proven to cut down on DPS checks, and to allow for more errors. Like UwU nowadays you can practically add up dead bodies over time and still be comfy on enrage. Not to cut down the accomplishment, just people calling it easy is not telling the full story.

Same ordeal with people who cleared Eden's Verse last tier in i500 gear will say the tier is easy versus the first month gang that had to work their way up with early strats and ilvl. Like some healers got a wake up call when Eden's Promise came out and they realized they actually needed to heal at min ilvl.

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I have never done Savage or Ultimate, though I want too my life simply does not allow it. lol I know the life does not allow it has been heard a million times, but not everyone can just simply re-adjust their life to get more free time. :P