A different RP discussion thread!

Instead of talking about the 'PF drama' in regards to RP in game, a different question:

If you were to bring Eorzea to pen and paper, tabletop, roll20, etc; what system would you use and why?

I wouldn't because I don't RP. Waste of developer time too.

Someone made a homebrew DnD compendium for FF14, so there is that.

D&D 5E is the only system I'm really familiar with so probably that by default.

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Originally Posted by MPK

I wouldn't because I don't RP. Waste of developer time too.

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My point


Your head

Considering how many different IP's have a pen and paper associated with it, I don't think it would be a waste in that sense either. But the main thrust of this was if say a pen and paper DM/GM/etc wanted to bring Eorzea to the tabletop with current systems what would you recommend or use.

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Originally Posted by MPK

I wouldn't because I don't RP. Waste of developer time too.

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https://i.imgflip.com/3bgglt.jpg

Also if SE ever wanted to make a tabletop RPG system or adapt it to an existing one, the people doing that wouldn't be the developers working on the video game, so no it wouldn't be wasting developer time.

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Originally Posted by MPK

I wouldn't because I don't RP. Waste of developer time too.

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Usually the developers for anything associated with tabletops arent the game developers. Its either outsourced with the universe owner giving them the lore resources and their final decisions OR its spun off into an interior group within the company (usually not involved in game design).

I'd probably go for something simple in terms of a ruleset. Maybe something custom and more mechanics driven. It's something I try to do when I write encounters, I set up mechanics players have to figure out in the encounter. And they can advantage for successful mechanics. I also sometimes add 'enrage triggers', so if somebody does something, it puts them at a disadvantage. I feel something mechanics heavy would be a good representation of how encounters in the game work. But of course they have to be the inventiveness of the DM because having any premade obviously means can learn them and just exploit them.

I think DnD is one of those system's that's great but I think maybe, at least thinking about my RP experiences in 14, that it'd be something that'd get too bogged down in the details, though I am aware a homebrew system exists for it.

5e dnd or something along that line or more like baulders gate

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Originally Posted by SwordswornFox

Instead of talking about the 'PF drama' in regards to RP in game, a different question:

If you were to bring Eorzea to pen and paper, tabletop, roll20, etc; what system would you use and why?

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d6 because it can easily be adapted to any setting. GURPS is awesome for that.

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Originally Posted by MPK

I wouldn't because I don't RP. Waste of developer time too.

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You know very little about the gaming industry if you think the devs who create this game would be the same people creating a tabletop game. You need completely different tools and skillsets to create those. SE would have to hire people who specifically specialise in the table top field.

Would fit right into D&D or Pathfinder

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Originally Posted by MPK

I wouldn't because I don't RP. Waste of developer time too.

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That's too bad, we're getting more RP in future patches.

I bought the Everquest rule book when they made a PnP for it. Never got to play it, never could find people to play with. Would love a FFXIV one.

There was a FATE port for FFXIV floating around a few expansions ago, and a Roll20 variant.
I found a copy of the Fate 14 version here (link)

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Originally Posted by Delis

I bought the Everquest rule book when they made a PnP for it. Never got to play it, never could find people to play with. Would love a FFXIV one.

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I think I have at least the Player's Handbook around here somewhere, too.

I'm not entirely sure. I can thing of a few different ideas, but I think at the end of the day I'd like to go with a d100 system similar to Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, or Zweihänder. Both games are known for having a lot of classes/jobs, including things that are traditionally non-combat jobs... So your character exploring Eorzea could literally be anything from a Alchemist to Gunbreaker. It'd have an added benefit of being fairly easy for the player base to use as an "official" system to use in-game with almost zero work on the behalf of the game developers; just change the d1000 of /random to a d100. Or just add a zero to all your games scores. It might be a touch more brutal than a lot of people would like though.

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Originally Posted by MPK

I wouldn't because I don't RP. Waste of developer time too.

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If you don't play tabletop role-playing games, maybe you should try to find a D&D group or something. You might learn how to have fun. :p

Also, a tabletop game would 100% be outsourced... Just like other Final Fantasy XIV related media is. I mean, the developers aren't making figures, after all. They also don't have anything to do with that netflix show.

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Originally Posted by MPK

I wouldn't because I don't RP. Waste of developer time too.

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Someone actually said you were a respectable raider. If that is the case what is an unruly one like? The developer's time would be well spent actually creating ways for roleplayers to thrive because it is a large part of the fan base as well. Just sad that some people associate roleplay to automatically assume it is related to erp. Not sure if you are trying to attempt to invalidate other people's opinions or just causing drama.

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Originally Posted by erroch

There was a FATE port for FFXIV floating around a few expansions ago, and a Roll20 variant.
I found a copy of the Fate 14 version here (link)

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Oh hey it's that thing I wrote, good to see it still around.

Porting stuff to FF14 RP means finding systems that fit how freeform RPers actually behave. D&D is not a very good fit for that. I take into account these things:

-Making a new character can mean a significant time and money investment and is more complicated than rerolling, so character death is either off the table or a matter of player choice. Game needs to have other consequences to ruin PC lives.
-Scenes will take longer because everybody's writing in prose format so rules have to be adjusted away from the basis that a 4-5 hour session will involve people travelling to multiple locations and doing a lot of different things.
-Players are going to be interacting with other system users and freeformers all the time, so if Dan Diceuser gets injured and Fred Freeformer wants to heal him, you need a way to address that.
-RPers make individual concepts of unique character with weird powers and skillsets as a given, so class-based systems are doomed to failure.

Optionally, I prefer to make sure the system can be managed in the in-game dice roller, which was a real challenge when it was only a d1000. Makes it easier for players who are on consoles.

I've played a lot of Powered by the Apocalypse games that I've really enjoyed. I generally prefer systems like that where the rolls are simpler and more open to GM/player interpretation (granted this can be the case in any system if you want, rules are only real if your group wants them to be). There's a fun Kingdom Hearts inspired one called Interstitial that my friends and I had a blast with.

Reading people's thought's had me also considering Cypher System by Monte Cook with its Narrative focus...particularly 'The Strange' because it has ideas/mechanics for changing one's Theme/Focus and using those to help represent the job change mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Hexie

I've played a lot of Powered by the Apocalypse games that I've really enjoyed. I generally prefer systems like that where the rolls are simpler and more open to GM/player interpretation (granted this can be the case in any system if you want, rules are only real if your group wants them to be). There's a fun Kingdom Hearts inspired one called Interstitial that my friends and I had a blast with.

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PbtA is my current FF14 project actually. Crisis Core (because I am unimaginative) with an emphasis on growing levels of character stress as situations escalate to allow the GM to make some more powerful actions. Playtesting is ongoing; I'm taking an approach with move selection closer to Kult instead of the playbook system common to most games.

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Originally Posted by SwordswornFox

Reading people's thought's had me also considering Cypher System by Monte Cook with its Narrative focus...particularly 'The Strange' because it has ideas/mechanics for changing one's Theme/Focus and using those to help represent the job change mechanics.

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Cypher is a possibility. From a read through, a lot of the magic tags in its system are mental in nature, which is not something that comes up a lot in FF14 magic, so it would take some adjusting. I've also heard good things about Cortex Prime if you don't mind using an outside roller, given its focus on interpersonal relationships (another big thing in online RP).

It surprises me that people who are so active in the forum continue to eat the baits of a certain character despite the fact that much of their comments are garbage like the threads that a person created that we all know who he is.

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Originally Posted by Nayout

It surprises me that people who are so active in the forum continue to eat the baits of a certain character despite the fact that much of their comments are garbage like the threads that a person created that we all know who he is.

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Are you referring to me as the OP or MPK's little troll response which was easily waved off by all involved?

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Originally Posted by VeradBV

Oh hey it's that thing I wrote, good to see it still around.

Porting stuff to FF14 RP means finding systems that fit how freeform RPers actually behave. D&D is not a very good fit for that. I take into account these things:

-Making a new character can mean a significant time and money investment and is more complicated than rerolling, so character death is either off the table or a matter of player choice. Game needs to have other consequences to ruin PC lives.

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Character death is something very rare in modern tabletop games, outside of some games (Warhammer Fantasy, Call of Cthulhu, most OSR games) and if you're making a game where character death is easy... Warhammer is really the only one where character creation takes a while.

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-Scenes will take longer because everybody's writing in prose format so rules have to be adjusted away from the basis that a 4-5 hour session will involve people travelling to multiple locations and doing a lot of different things.

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There's a lot of ways to fix this, either by limited each post of a three to fix sentences, requiring people to pre-roll and pre-type in combat, do group initiative, etc.

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-Players are going to be interacting with other system users and freeformers all the time, so if Dan Diceuser gets injured and Fred Freeformer wants to heal him, you need a way to address that.

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Since this would be on downtime, if Fred Freeformer used healing magic, Dan Diceuser could easily roll the recovered hit points... Especially since it would be bad form for Frank Freeformer to be like "your character is fully healed because my magic is that powerful.

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-RPers make individual concepts of unique character with weird powers and skillsets as a given, so class-based systems are doomed to failure.

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In 2e AD&D, there was a NPC in the Ravenloft campaign setting named Rudolph Van Richten. Conceptually, he was a doctor, who's son was stolen by a vampire and killed, which set him on a quest to rid the world of supernatural creatures that prey on innocents. He wasn't a skilled warrior or magician, having to rely on other people for those things, but he was intelligent, learned, and a skilled tactician. Mechanically, he was listed as a Thief. The point is... Classes are broad strokes. Then again, having ran D&D for a long time, I sort of feel that 9/10 times when someone says there isn't a class that fits their concept, the player just wants to be Gary Stu.

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Optionally, I prefer to make sure the system can be managed in the in-game dice roller, which was a real challenge when it was only a d1000. Makes it easier for players who are on consoles.

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Take a d100 system. Add a zero. In something like Zwihander, if you have 65 as your score for melee, you'll hit on a role of 65 or under. If you converted, convert it to a melee score of 650.

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Originally Posted by DreadCrow

Character death is something very rare in modern tabletop games, outside of some games (Warhammer Fantasy, Call of Cthulhu, most OSR games) and if you're making a game where character death is easy... Warhammer is really the only one where character creation takes a while.

There's a lot of ways to fix this, either by limited each post of a three to fix sentences, requiring people to pre-roll and pre-type in combat, do group initiative, etc.

Since this would be on downtime, if Fred Freeformer used healing magic, Dan Diceuser could easily roll the recovered hit points... Especially since it would be bad form for Frank Freeformer to be like "your character is fully healed because my magic is that powerful.

Take a d100 system. Add a zero. In something like Zwihander, if you have 65 as your score for melee, you'll hit on a role of 65 or under. If you converted, convert it to a melee score of 650.

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A lot of these are fine for more granular systems like the ones you mentioned, but my baselines are built for broader narrative strokes and collaborative storytelling with risk instead of granular moment-to-moment resolution of combat.

The issue of characters wanting to do everything, at least in freeform play, is usually filtered out by the inclusion of dice at all, so I've only had one instance, in about seven years of experimenting, with a player who was salty their powers weren't a Solve Everything button. The classless nature of things just makes it easier for me to include non-combat characters who are more adept at social interactions (something these systems always incorporate), and helps me outsource the design of magic systems, which I am always too lazy to write in the exhaustive detail of D&D.

Regarding the d100, I did use a d1000=d20 on a 50/1 ratio for one system, and that works fine. Now you could just do /random 20 and there's no need for it anymore. Presently, I'm working on treating d1000 as 3d10, which opens up bell-curve probabilities and frees me from the tyranny of linearity.

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Originally Posted by VeradBV

Cypher is a possibility. From a read through, a lot of the magic tags in its system are mental in nature, which is not something that comes up a lot in FF14 magic, so it would take some adjusting. I've also heard good things about Cortex Prime if you don't mind using an outside roller, given its focus on interpersonal relationships (another big thing in online RP).

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The Mental vs Physical for magic is fairly easily handled they do have a lot of magic style abilities that can be done off of Might or Speed, and offering certain jobs the 'may use X stat to pay Y costs' traits offsets the rest on that front. Haven't heard of Cortex prime so will need to dig there.

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Originally Posted by VeradBV

Oh hey it's that thing I wrote, good to see it still around.

Porting stuff to FF14 RP means finding systems that fit how freeform RPers actually behave. D&D is not a very good fit for that. I take into account these things:

-Making a new character can mean a significant time and money investment and is more complicated than rerolling, so character death is either off the table or a matter of player choice. Game needs to have other consequences to ruin PC lives.
-Scenes will take longer because everybody's writing in prose format so rules have to be adjusted away from the basis that a 4-5 hour session will involve people travelling to multiple locations and doing a lot of different things.
-Players are going to be interacting with other system users and freeformers all the time, so if Dan Diceuser gets injured and Fred Freeformer wants to heal him, you need a way to address that.
-RPers make individual concepts of unique character with weird powers and skillsets as a given, so class-based systems are doomed to failure.

Optionally, I prefer to make sure the system can be managed in the in-game dice roller, which was a real challenge when it was only a d1000. Makes it easier for players who are on consoles.

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This only applies if you're using a pre-written scenario like a dungeon crawl. My hubby and I have used D&D rules in numerous campaigns over 20 years that happen over IRC, so we type everything in prose format and do our rolling with dice scripts in channel. Our groups often go off the beaten path in RP, too, so it requires a lot of on the fly adjustment. We've done fantasy games, modern games, superhero games, you name it. The general rules for D&D can be used for pretty much anything you want.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

This only applies if you're using a pre-written scenario like a dungeon crawl. My hubby and I have used D&D rules in numerous campaigns over 20 years that happen over IRC, so we type everything in prose format and do our rolling with dice scripts in channel. Our groups often go off the beaten path in RP, too, so it requires a lot of on the fly adjustment. We've done fantasy games, modern games, superhero games, you name it. The general rules for D&D can be used for pretty much anything you want.

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I'm aware it can be a pretty flexible system for people who want to use it, but in dealing with the primarily freeform userbase that we have on Balmung and in MMO RP in general, the number of players who are interested in more rules-intensive games like D&D as a system baseline are in the minority. It helps a lot as an outreach tool to use systems that give players more collaborative control over the storyline and has simpler roll results.

For comparison, a popular system for conflict resolution on Balmung is the Grindstone system, which is a simple /random rolloff on attack/defense with the high roller winning, and the first to take three hits is the loser. This has no connection to character ability or tactics or any kind of modifiers, and it's fairly widespread because it's easy to use and (mostly) handles conflicts quickly without a lot of OOC chatter so people can get back to the freeform. I try to work with systems that strike a middle ground between pure simple RNG like that and more rules-intensive systems like D&D.

If I had a crowd that did prefer more rules-intensive games, I'd lob a copy of Big Eyes Small Mouth (aka GURPS for weebs) into the room and let them sort themselves out from there.

I'd be fine with D&D 5e or even a modified Sprawl system to a lesser extent. Hell, maybe even White Wolf's system as while they're dice heavy they're pretty fun overall. I wouldn't like them using something like the Dragon Age system however as it leans way too heavily on magic being overpowered, which doesn't fit the setting all that much.