How do you like to experience group content the first time?

My reintroduction to the game has me pondering this question myself. If I hadn't rolled up a tank to tank all the content while my girlfriend gets to be nuke happy BLM, how would I choose to learn the group content?

Blind or read/video up?

Personally I'd prefer to go in blind the first time, maybe it's my old single player rpg mindset of first playthrough blind and then the second with a guide to make sure I don't miss anything, but I like experiencing that first dungeon/raid etc without preconceived notions.

Role?
I'd still tank it first, it is my preferred role in many MMO's especially in dungeon tier content and find it easier to get basics of a boss fight that way, then try it healing, and finally dps.

So how do you like to learn the group content?

Depends. If it's savage/ultimate we better not be going in blind

I prefer to just throw myself in without any knowledge whatsoever. Learn by doing. Plus, trying to memorize 18 things I just read or saw in a video is more likely to trip me up more than anything. It's easier to learn everything as it comes.

And usually I go in as healer or DPS first, but I have on occasion had to tank something first because it was my highest ilevel at the time. I don't really have any other reason beyond preferring to only tank something once I'm familiar with it.

If it is something I can just queue for, I just go in directly with no prior knowledge. If it is something that I need to form a fixed party first, then I'll follow what the group wants. If they want to go directly, that's fine. If they want to read/watch a guide first, that's fine as well.

Blind personally, I pick things up fast anyway and suck with guides usually so it works out until savage

Always blind, I generally prefer exploration and problem solving, be it quick or slow.. But if it's ever in a place it matters then I will generally specify blind!

I have never done group content that requires a pre-formed party because I have never had anyone to actively play with and do large group content with since I started right before HW dropped.

I don't use the PF because I cannot understand the people that make them with the instructions that sound Greek, and I immediately feel at a massive disadvantage and like a hindrance when people use other boss fights or mechanics as references to a fight.

So I like to experience it by not ever doing it since I never feel good enough or confident enough to do it in the first place.

What's a MMO? I play this game solo ._.

DON'T MIND ME, I'M HAVING A DOWN MOMENT.

Ideally, blind as a tank.
If I don't do it the first week or two, then maybe DPS but still would rather go blind.
When I don't get to it months after, as is usually the case with Savage level as I can't stand static drama, then I don't really have a choice but to watch a guide.

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Originally Posted by MPK

Depends. If it's savage/ultimate we better not be going in blind

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How do you do savage/ultimate on release then?

I thought you were a hardcore raider.

Do you just wait for people to make guides before doing the content?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

How do you do savage/ultimate on release then?

I thought you were a hardcore raider.

Do you just wait for people to make guides before doing the content?

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I'm not an alarm clocker / world progger that's for sure. Timelines and stuff are usually public within hours of clears.

I like raiding, but I would never skip work for it.

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Originally Posted by MPK

I'm not an alarm clocker that's for sure. Timelines and stuff are usually public within hours of clears

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Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of doing hard content?

If you wait for guides, what's the point? I thought you wanted difficult content, not "tell me how to clear content so I can look good"


Its much more fun figuring out the mechanics. Especially in savage.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of doing hard content?

If you wait for guides, what's the point? I thought you wanted difficult content, not "tell me how to clear content so I can look good"


Its much more fun figuring out the mechanics. Especially in savage.

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Optimization and "muh parse" :)

Though raiding is different for everyone

Edit: oh and of course the cool title and weapons that screams "I can clear the hardest content in the game"

I prefer to go in blind and that's why I'll go in first thing when a new patch drops. Usually as dps. If friends are on first thing I'll go in with them, but if not I'll dive in by myself. But sometimes not everyone can be on first thing and we'll plan a blind FC run in the evening the same day a patch drops. That's for brand new content. But if it's something that's been out a while but I've not bothered to do it yet, like an extreme fight, I'll review a video just to get some of the basics of the encounter down. I won't remember it much as I learn best by doing, but at least when I see something in the fight it'll jog my memory of "oh yea the video said this was coming and how it should be handled".

I like going in blind. If it's normal content, there's usually nothing too obtuse. And in Savage, it's fun to figure out mechanics together. That said, our MT does look up guides so when we get stuck we'll usually find out what comes next soon enough.

If it's an Extreme trial or an older Savage raid, then I will probably look up a guide beforehand. Otherwise I'll just jump right in. I'm all for being prepared, but I don't see a reason for anyone to need a guide for anything that isn't high end content. Just enjoy the game, people!

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of doing hard content?

If you wait for guides, what's the point? I thought you wanted difficult content, not "tell me how to clear content so I can look good"

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So not surprised. I used to do hardcore raiding in WoW and I found that those who keep informing you of how great they are whenever possible are rarely as amazing as they say. There's always a catch with these people. They overly highlight something to hide something else.

I have nothing against people looking up tactics. But I do have something against a person who frequently acts like they're ultra hardcore and it turns out they're not.

This would be funny if I had not seen this so many times already.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

So not surprised. I used to do hardcore raiding in WoW and I found that those who keep informing you of how great they are whenever possible are rarely as amazing as they say. There's always a catch with these people. They overly highlight something to hide something else.

I have nothing against people looking up tactics. But I do have something against a person who frequently acts like they're ultra hardcore and it turns out they're not.

This would be funny if I had not seen this so many times already.

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I wonder if it's an age thing. I find myself less and less needing to prove myself to other people as I get older, and more just doing things for personal enjoyment.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I wonder if it's an age thing. I find myself less and less needing to prove myself to other people as I get older, and more just doing things for personal enjoyment.

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Casuals have weird taste. I never understood how roflstomping something without any effort can be enjoyable in any way.

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Originally Posted by MPK

Casuals have weird taste. I never understood how roflstomping something without any effort can be enjoyable in any way.

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Classic attempt at deflection. Assumes someone saying they're doing something only for enjoyment must mean it is super easy content anyone can do in their sleep, to distract from the fact that they themselves shattered their own illusion of their own skill.

Hilarious and pathetic.

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Originally Posted by MPK

Casuals have weird taste. I never understood how roflstomping something without any effort can be enjoyable in any way.

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And your choice of waiting for guides instead of just going in and figuring it out yourself is weird to me.


I'm not a casual, and haven't really ever been one. I just don't spend 40 hours a week raiding to get week 1 or 2 clears. I'm much happier going at a slower pace. It let's me do other things.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

And your choice of waiting for guides instead of just going in and figuring it out yourself is weird to me.


I'm not a casual, and haven't really ever been one. I just don't spend 40 hours a week raiding.

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You don't wait for guides, you go in with what ever is available to you because the static you join expect early clears. If you haven't cleared the tier in 40hs then something is severely wrong with the static tbh

Actually going in blind is extremely disrespectful for early clear statics. You're like telling them to open their mouths then spitting it it once they do

Normal raids, alliance raids, and things like that?
Blind runs are tons of fun.

EX and Savages?
We study up and come prepared to kick ass~

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Originally Posted by MPK

You don't wait for guides, you go in with what ever is available to you because the static you join expect early clears. If you haven't cleared the tier in 40hs then something is severely wrong with the static tbh

Actually going in blind is extremely disrespectful for early clear statics

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What a world we live in. Going in blind is disrespectful to early clear/world first statics. Got it.


Let me learn the fight before we go in, when no one's cleared it yet.


And my group is very casual, we have people who don't pick up mechanics as fast as others. We don't care. We have fun.

Apparently you only have fun lording your clears over others, the kind of people I dislike raiding with

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

What a world we live in. Going in blind is disrespectful to early clear/world first statics. Got it.


Let me learn the fight before we go in, when no one's cleared it yet.


And my group is very casual, we have people who don't pick up mechanics as fast as others. We don't care. We have fun.

Apparently you only have fun lording your clears over others, the kind of people I dislike raiding with

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I'm talking about early clear not world prog there's a huge difference.

I am not and won't ever attempt world prog since I don't like raiding that much

I prefer going in blind to new content. For extreme content, if I didn’t get around to it in the first few days, I’ll look up a vid to see what pug strats are, since I don’t have a static.

I’ve been playing long enough that I no longer run into any real issues with normal content. It’s pretty easy to figure out, so it’s fun to experience it fresh without worrying too much.

If I go as DD I'll go in blind, usually as SMN or RDM (where I can raise and help out in other ways if things start going wrong), and I may go in blind as healer depending on the content type, and I wont go in blind at all as tank because I don't want to lead people awfully lol.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of doing hard content?

If you wait for guides, what's the point? I thought you wanted difficult content, not "tell me how to clear content so I can look good"


Its much more fun figuring out the mechanics. Especially in savage.

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I think this is part of what started to make me think 'meh' to the hardercore stuff in MMOs.

There are guide tools (like DBM in WoW), there are all these guides that people EXPECT you to have watched.. You've team leaders telling you what to do, it's all orchestrated and to me it starts to waffle between you're a cog in the machine or "we wouldn't be dying if Timmy could follow simple instructions that everyone else already knows, or should know, because we watched the guide". Of course added onto that I've less time so now if I want to make progress on my character these type of contents in DF are not great progress sources, so I'm not labeling the 'meh' to just one feeling (part of it not the sole source of it).

Especially since tools like DMB, which do exist for FFXIV, will make it so other people play better by the nature of being informed even if they wouldn't normally be to that level which then means the devs should be designing to that tier of informed decision making and thus reinforcing the concept that you should be well read on your guides and such.

To be fair there are some people I'm sure who are in love with the orchestra gameplay, love reading the guides or using those tools and then getting into a group of other people to do that.

For those who 'figure out (and win lol)' ultimate and savage I've a particular respect to their skill. No disrespect if you don't win, just not as neat as winning lol. Play however you want XD.

It’s only considerate to read a guide if one exists. If you’re attempting ex/savage content before a guide exists, you probably don’t need one.

That said, since ex/savage content is done through pf the party rules determine whether you have the option to go in blind. You should expect a kick/blacklist if you join a learning party requesting you watch a guide first if you don’t at least have an idea of what’s coming up.

Dungeon guides, though, are unnecessary and a waste of creation time.

Theres only one way to me and thats blind, after a clear or like, 15% enrage or smt i might look up a guide so i got a common strat but id never watch a guide first, it would kill all fun. Without fun its pointless to me^^

well MPK, you've severely disappointed me. I thought better of you /s

Blind of course, I usually prog on content drop days. Plus you can avoid headaches of just learning one way and being inflexible as we learned from the Shiva tier....it's more enjoyable learning Savage that way in my opinion.

Always blind, it's way more fun to figure out fights as you go.

If I can Trust it, I'll do it that way. If I can't, I usually watch a guide. I'm not too bad at executing once I know what to do, but I'm pretty bad at figuring things out/reacting in the heat of the moment so I know if I'm doing something with a group blind I'll just drag the rest of the group down.

Blind is always far more fun and the way an mmorpg is meant to be played, you have to figure things out and think how to deal with the mechanics because sometimes the solution might be different based on your composition or even player preferences.

Especially if you got your own group of friends so you get to experience the above instead of just "lol copy what X streamer did, thinking is hard"

Now if I am doing something solo on duty finder I ll probably check vids for extreme and above since they are so very different and from my Ramuh extreme groups you definitely need a few ppl that know what is going on to explain to others, that one took me like 5 groups to get xD

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Originally Posted by MPK

Casuals have weird taste. I never understood how roflstomping something without any effort can be enjoyable in any way.

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I don't see how you can necessarily equate personal enjoyment to putting in no effort.

Regardless, from someone who actually doesn't do Extreme/Savage/Ultimate contents, I still put in effort with dungeons and normal trials and raids and alliance raids.

People who don't put in effort, especially on "easy" contents, are what make those contents worse/harder than they need to be. LFR in WoW is a prime example of this, to the point that some people have said that LFR can be harder than Normal difficulty.

If it's a story dungeon or trial, you can do it completely blind. People who do it when it releases have no choice but to do it blind anyway and they are usually fine.

In fact, when you have done them on release day you start to realise that the guides over-analysed it - spending minutes explaining a mechanic that lasts a split second and can even be ignored in practice. I don't blame the guides for that, they are supposed to do this to give you a thorough understanding of that (non-threatening) mechanic, so the answer is it's up to you if you watch it, but it's not necessary.

For high-end versions like (Extreme) and (Savage), I recommend watching a guide when matching with random people. They are usually unprepared enough and struggle to get anywhere as it is, so not having watched a guide will hinder progress even further. If the party all agree it can be done blind in the description, then that's acceptable and you can find blind parties occasionally.

Personally, I do story content blind, and I watch a guide for high-end content if I feel that, based on the normal version, it will be necessary. After playing for long enough I can mostly predict what the high-end version will be like though, so sometimes I just jump in blind and figure it all out immediately from experience. I did this for a lot of Shadowbringers extremes.

Whether I watch a guide really depends on if I feel like not watching one will hold the party back much.

I hate going into content blind and avoid it whenever possible—if I can check out a guide before doing content for the first time, I will.

Not knowing what's going on just isn't particularly fun for me. Of course, there's always going to be a component of actually learning an encounter by doing it, but I at least like to have a sense of what's happening if I can.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

Not knowing what's going on just isn't particularly fun for me. Of course, there's always going to be a component of actually learning an encounter by doing it, but I at least like to have a sense of what's happening if I can.

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Yep. For me, the fun in an encounter/dungeon/etc. comes from mastering it through taking the knowledge I have and honing that over time. It's a great feeling when you get a dungeon or trial you haven't done for ages and that muscle memory kicks in. While I understand that the learning and figuring out phase is fun for some people, it's not for me, especially in group content where my mistakes punish everyone else and/or their mistakes punish me when I've done everything right.

EX and Savage all but require research which is kinda why im down on it most of the time

Raids, Trials, Dungeons and NM stuff is where its most fun blind, sadly dungeons severely lack the girth they once had and the main roles done really matter besides healer. No prioritizing DPS, no Tank navigation due to so many gates and no real threat so going in blind results more often than not in a clear

Trails raids and NM are more fun due to its difficulty and chaos. Rabanastre on day 1 was the most fun ive had in the game ever and couldnt clear it until the following day due to rage quits and time outs which added more to the content, SHB lost this charm as none of the mechs in Neir arent as punishing and i got clears with no wipes with full on blind parties which confused me, even Lab wiped me more. Trials like Nidhogg, Tsuki and SoS are always a joy to get the worst ones being thordan and Cape obviously and a huge chunk of omega in a blind party is fun by chaos factor alone which few eden trials can compare, alex is a joke sadly.

It's no fun if you're just letting someone else hold your hand through it.

I do all the content I do on release day so there's not an option but to go blind. Is it frustrating to beat your head against something and keep failing? You betcha. But it's also fun to see the progress as you figure it out together.

I'm an old school 20 year+ MMO gamer, though. We didn't have guides when I started so I've never seen the point of relying on them now.

After the clear to find out some more details on what was holding you back, yeah. But before you even start it? Just feels like I'm cheated of the experience if I do that.

Depends on how old the content is and who i'm running it with.
Brand new content or will a full group of friends? Blind is preferred.
Established content with randoms? Eh read a guide first. It's hard enough adjusting for the behavior of strangers.