Deep Dungeons in future Expacs?

A while ago I read an interview with YoshiP the dev team decided to take a break from the DD format for one expansion and would move the power levelling aspect of Dads into the BSF.

I remember in this same interview, YoshiP states that the team planned to release a new version of the Deep Dungeon concept in Early 6.0. Although not mentioned at the announcement showcase, Id expect to see it come with the Digital Fanfests announcements in May.

The discussion I wanted to have however is if/when they reveal the 6.0 Deep Dungeons: What improvements to Deep Dungeons would you all like to see?

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Originally Posted by Kiurai

What improvements to Deep Dungeons would you all like to see?

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Do one with a more aggressive style that you don't have to creep around, so I would remove traps but put in different dangers like if you remain in an area too long, additional enemies spawn in or you are debuffed in some way. Maybe have a mini boss floor half way between each main boss floor to break up the monotony of fighting regular enemies.

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Originally Posted by Kiurai

The discussion I wanted to have however is if/when they reveal the 6.0 Deep Dungeons: What improvements to Deep Dungeons would you all like to see?

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I'd like to see a system like in Bozja where you can augment your class depending on the party composition.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Do one with a more aggressive style that you don't have to creep around, so I would remove traps but put in different dangers like if you remain in an area too long, additional enemies spawn in or you are debuffed in some way. Maybe have a mini boss floor half way between each main boss floor to break up the monotony of fighting regular enemies.

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Not sure I'd want it all to break with the format so heavily, but slipping in some floors that need to be cleared as quick as possible could definitely be fun.

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Originally Posted by Kiurai

The discussion I wanted to have however is if/when they reveal the 6.0 Deep Dungeons: What improvements to Deep Dungeons would you all like to see?

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What an interesting question OP.
I'd like to see the dungeon move away from rogue-like / mystery dungeon style traps.
Either through deemphasizing traps in general, or changing them up so they're not all just invisible floor tiles.
Not sure how likely this is as the deep dungeons are heavily based off rogue-likes / mystery dungeons, though if they took a break from writing Hildebrand stories to refresh themselves and stop them from getting stale, maybe we will also see them shake up or shake off the heavy R-L/MD influences.

i want it to go ham with the rogue like elements
pick up buffs that stacks
skills similar to logograms you can find etc etc

Personally, I'd like to see: PotD Lv 1-(current expansion cap); HoH (unlockable at 60) also Lv 1-(current expansion cap) and New Thing, Unlockable at 80, but also can run Lv 1-(current cap). Call the new floors "Hardmode" or whatever; don't need new storyline.

I've leveled everything to 80 and capped each expansion; so when PotD was new, I ran that; when HoH and so on.

In the current game if a new player joined...it would be much nicer if they could just run anything to get their 3rd-4th-whatever job leveled. Run HoH, get bored? Do Eureka. Not feeling it? Try the new thing. They should all contribute fair amounts of XP so everyone can get capped quicker. I mean it should never outpace daily roulettes...but maybe on par with dungeon spamming.

Baring ALL OF THAT, if I were designing Deep Dungeon 3.0, I'd probably do it like Gauntlet:

• Tons of enemies and "treasure" to grab while frantically searching for the exit.
• Your HP constantly ticks down. Can be refilled with "Food" you run over.
• More treasure = more loot/points at the end.
• Some healing gained after clearing a floor.
• After every X floors, you have the option to end your delve and cash out.
• ..or continue and risk losing it all! (Your HP eventually becomes so low it's just impossible to reach that next cash out point)

What i would like to see, is that we need to do more then just kill a specific amount monsters in order to unlock the next floor. Add some extra variations of it, like:

- Add "switches" to the floor, which you need to activate (in a certain order) before the gate unlocks.
- Find x amount of items spread out on the floor.
- Make a specific monster type the target for the current floor. For instance, use about 10 different types of enemies and only 2 of 1 specific type you need to find and kill.
- Kill a specific enemy (an Alpha / Leader of the pack)
- Add a mini boss which will drop special "loot sacks" you can turn in after completing the current set of 10 floors.
- Make floors a maze, where you need to traverse through portals or pull switches / find a key to open doors in order to reach the gate.
- Add an escort NPC you would have to guide to the exit, maybe even rescue.

These are just examples for stuff they can add to the randomization of each floor. Inspiration for these added floor mechanics, came from other content like the "Nyzul Isle Investigation" from FFXI and the Castrum from the Bozjan Front.

I really liked the concept of HoH over POTD and I was sad to not have a DD this expansion (Bozja just doesn't do it for me, sorry... I find it mind-numbingly boring). With HoH on the higher levels, you had to be on your toes. I'd like to see the DD incorporate some of the features from treasure maps -- not that you're kicked out if you choose the wrong door kind of thing, but with more choices.. will this door lead to better treasure? A mini boss? A shortcut?

I liked the concept of summoning primals in HoH. I think it would be cool to include that in the next version. And perhaps conditions that ONLY work if you PURPOSEFULLY step on a trap... i.e. step on a trap, become a chicken, pass through a smaller hole to get to the exit. Neat quirks like that.

I hope we get another Deep Dungeon, though a version that is updated throughout the entirety of the expansion with new rewards and mechanics to keep it relevant.

Nah, SE rather spend more time on garbage like Bozja

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Originally Posted by MPK

Nah, SE rather spend more time on garbage like Bozja

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Still salty from that other thread, huh?

I would say that optional objectives and maybe a torghast style effect generator for our abilities but this would be a separate mode from the base runs(as that would probably affect things like normal solo runs). More modes is the general sentiment I get from threads like this, essentially providing new ways to experience it after doing basic runs or basic solo runs.(Traditional PotD)

Personally prefer stuff like Bozja and Eureka over deep dungeon, always found DDs a complete snooze fest. But think we will get a DD in next expac and wouldn't be surprised if it did actually take the place of the exploration zones, possibly even having next relic tied to it.

Things I would love for 6.0 deep dungeon
1.) Allow party members to be replaced with another member of the appropriate role as long as they are at the same floors as your fixed party.
2.) Create secret alternate paths with special rewards and special level designs. (Like binding of isaac has hell, heaven, etc.)
3.) Create Notorious Monsters within floor sets.(special bosses)
4.) Create special power ups/abilities when playing solo.
5.) When party members disconnect add a trust or trusts (if multiple party members are gone.) That stick with you until the party members come back or you complete fail the floor set.

I simply want the difficulty raised on the “leveling” portion so anyone that spends 10 levels in there actually knows how to play their job.

Potd/hoh were awful for teaching you anything of note since you could just spam the same 10 floors over and over but didn’t require any job expertise to clear.

They added in different options for leveling, Trusts being the big one. People complained, rightly so, that people using deep dungeons to power level their jobs had no idea how to play when they got to the end of the game.

That's not to say they couldn't add in more deep dungeons, but would expect future versions to be very different when compared to the two that came before. Likely with different or fewer rewards

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I simply want the difficulty raised on the “leveling” portion so anyone that spends 10 levels in there actually knows how to play their job.

Potd/hoh were awful for teaching you anything of note since you could just spam the same 10 floors over and over but didn’t require any job expertise to clear.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

They added in different options for leveling, Trusts being the big one. People complained, rightly so, that people using deep dungeons to power level their jobs had no idea how to play when they got to the end of the game.

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I suspect this is why Bozja puts you at cap and gives you your full kit.

I much prefer bozja and eureka to potd and hoh but I understand this kinda thing is really popular with the more casual playerbase.

If they do another I hope it’s bigger like POTD story wise. The HOH story was interesting to begin with but it’s like 3 floors or something.

I honestly don’t get how people can bash Bozja but love doing HoH over and over and over again. It’s really lazy content.

Also I don’t personally see a need for one of these simply from 80-90 or even really 70-90 while there is dungeons and roulettes. So if they do another perhaps they should put it in an ARR area and open it to lower levels too.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

I much prefer bozja and eureka to potd and hoh but I understand this kinda thing is really popular with the more casual playerbase.

If they do another I hope it’s bigger like POTD story wise. The HOH story was interesting to begin with but it’s like 3 floors or something.

I honestly don’t get how people can bash Bozja but love doing HoH over and over and over again. It’s really lazy content.

Also I don’t personally see a need for one of these simply from 80-90 or even really 70-90 while there is dungeons and roulettes. So if they do another perhaps they should put it in an ARR area and open it to lower levels too.

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Some people genuinely dislike Bozja and love HoH/PotD. To each their own I guess. Others just hate on Bozja because that's the "cool" thing to do.

Hey, for what it's worth, I utterly loathe both Bozja/Eureka AND PotD/HoH!

Deep dungeons are one of my favorite battle contents in the game and I really hope we will get another one with the next expansion.

Improvment: More check points along the way or something to not mess up hours of work thanks to one single DC. Maybe if you run the higher floors, there is an item that drops that allows you to use it between the next bunch of 10 floors and thus giving you bascially one more chance. They could be very rare drops too.

So if for example you have on of those (and maybe you can only have one on you) and you defeated the boss at floor 120 you can then use it and if you fail or lose connection on a floor beyond that you can try it again. Of course they could make a limit by saying that you cant use it on the last 10-20 floors.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

I honestly don’t get how people can bash Bozja but love doing HoH over and over and over again. It’s really lazy content.

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I mean for me HoH or PotD solo runs were quite challenging. Much more challenging than the normal content in Bozja which comes down to fate farming.

So I love it because I can do it solo without having other people running around me. Other than having to start at the lower floors again, there is no penality for dieing. It is challenging especially after the story floors. Its content living on its own by not having a relic completely forced on it.

Its also a great activity with a friend. No matter the level you will all start out the same and not be restricted by either story or level.

On top of that it gives some nice exp and you could get some nice loot too.

So for me its way less boring and mind numbening than Bozja or Eureka like content. I can do it all the time without fearing that low amount of participation will stop the ability to complete it. Its quite possible to even reach the highest floor solo or with another person. You wont be able to complete Bozja if people decide to not run it anymore.

I would prefer they just expand the existing deep dungeons. Having 3 different deep dungeons that are roughly the same but with a different skin is not really unique.

More / emphasized Rogue-lite could be fun, I wonder if they could take some of the best ideas from their Eurekas and go from there. Like if SE checks out Hades or Dead Cells, making something that has both in the moment wildness (challenge or cheese) and yet also a general sense that each time even with failure is success.


I think really, for all content I want to play, like that idea that even my failures are not a waste of my time. Especially if they're failures that were like "oh, that literally was a waste- thanks..". As an example some of the blue mage carnival was nifty and you had a few ways to do it, but there were a few that were like "IF YOU DONT HAVE THIS SPELL YOU WWWWWWWWIILLLLLL DIE". Yet they don't tell you that, so I would try those a few times and be like "super, cool- literally wasted my time, nothing to show for it".


The magic of a good rogue lite was it gave you the fun of variability with the promise it is also trying to respect your time, and also tend to be a bit more bite sized because of it. If my wife decided it's movie night and I was in the middle of a Hades run honestly I'd just run my character off into death and be like "cool, run done".

Which goes in line with Alleo's comment I think in terms of 'steps', just at least that concept you don't get "well, there goes the value of my time "poof" /wave".

I'd like if they could make a bonus or challenge log so you can make some 'main' progress that way, if you wanted (like your daily roulette bonus).

I feel a memento mori (FFIX) theme'd deep dungeon would be awesome, basically non-stop "our art team is full kite high and making dreams as art" experience lol.

New types of rooms could be nice too, like the grid is helpful for easy design obviously but maybe there will be more shapes (not just how they connect, but how the room itself is). Maybe again look at Hades / Dead Cells, might find rooms that are just rooms for rest or whatever. Perhaps every so often rather than a series of rooms you get an entire floor, like a zone basically. In some ways maybe they could bring Eureka like content and DD together (through DF/PF, solo, you progress DD, then at certain floors you unlock Eureka-scapes that utilize much of the content you've already been earning (you can enter them on demand, don't have to redo the whole DD to get into the 'scape'), some of the lite elements from the DD translating into the scape (so like if you unlocked x items or abilities from DD, like Dead Cells maybe, you can bring those in some way), also adding any "dungeons" like CLL can be instanced to prevent future issues like that). Much easier to progress if you're casual (especially if they put relic into the content), yet there are moments of more Eureka inspired design (unlocked scapes at certain floor, to ensure the floors don't get forgotten can include items in the floors that help you in the scapes). Just to be clear when I say bind some features together I don't mean dying in DD causes mettle loss or whatever lol, I mean you might think of Lost Actions as not being something they make for one content but they can share those neat concepts while also perhaps better bridging the gap between the casual people who want relic and not Eureka and the players who want Eureka and relic, etc, etc.

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Originally Posted by Aldora

What i would like to see, is that we need to do more then just kill a specific amount monsters in order to unlock the next floor. Add some extra variations of it, like:

[...]

These are just examples for stuff they can add to the randomization of each floor. Inspiration for these added floor mechanics, came from other content like the "Nyzul Isle Investigation" from FFXI and the Castrum from the Bozjan Front.

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This.

As someone who's a reasonably serious deep dungeon runner (i.e., I've been in groups that take a stab at reaching the end floors, and have attempted solo runs), what I really wish is that we had more in the way of puzzles and such. I know it's not super easy to do that because eventually people (like me) will have seen all the possible puzzles and will already know solutions to them, yes. But things like having to find floor switches and hit them in a specific order, or to find a way to drain a flooded room containing the key, or whatnot... that'd be great.

And it's not like they can't do that even in XIV; the 1.0 version of the Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak was that way. There were three potential bosses you could fight, and you could make it to any one of them easily, but there were a limited number of photocells and a lot of different closed-off doorways. And if you wanted to try to hit up all three bosses for Extra Loot Goodness, you had to get and use those photocells in a very specific order, or you'd find yourself with no way to get to another photocell to get to the doorway you needed to open.

Failing to do the pattern right didn't stop you from getting to defeat a boss, but it would keep you from defeating all of them.

(Of course, if I remember right, Toto-Rak of that era also had a much more severe timer. So you needed to not only do the photocells in the right order to get all three bosses, but you had to burn through the various parts of the dungeon fast.)

I'd love to see more like that. Where failing to do the complicated thing doesn't fail the duty, but succeeding at doing the challenging/complicated thing brings Extra Riches or whatnot. It's why I like the prisoner mechanic in Castrum Lacus Litore; it's a return to that sort of encounter design.

As others have said, I would like to see more Deep Dungeons, but I'd like to see them with a little more variety and action. Take them even further away from the content we get in the rest of the game. Vary up the floor effects and traps. Give us access to more abilities like we can get in Bozja. Randomize bosses even if just amongst a set pool so that it's not always the same every single run. Try to make the content a little more fun to solo on a variety of classes. Etc.