Open world changes?

Overworld is pretty dead imo, here are some garbage ideas.

* More densely packed mobs
- As it stands, mobs are very sparse w/ numbers on the open world. Could certainly benefit from larger packs.

* Adjust EXP
- Make it so grinding overworld mobs could be a viable method of leveling. Doesn't have to go overboard to invalidate everything else, but would be nice.

* Allow overworld to spawn NM type enemies, similar to Eureka-esque stuff, for killing mobs.
- incorporate the Duel FATE mechanic for angering certain mob factions. Allow the rewards to be chunks of gil, tomes, misc mats, or Maps with higher success rates.

* Make FATES have chain bonuses, such as temporary Duty Action like abilities, ability to call in G-Warrior for a FATE or 2, etc.
- Allow FATE variants for if your chain is high. ex; Normal Fate could be X group killing Y group, but now this time Y group has a big bad for backup and new mechs introduced to the FATE w/ increased rewards.
- Make FATES actually scale reasonably for players present. Some FATE boss enemies have ridiculously high health for unknown reasons. Could do w/ a readjust!

I don't know. I really would just like the open world to matter outside of what very little there is. Sorry if these are just the basest of the base suggestion wise, but it's a starting point of a conversation I think is somewhat important. I really don't appreciate how some aspects of this game feel half baked and undercooked, so lets throw ideas out, talk about it, and maybe devs will do something eventually.

The FATE system was a decent idea to implement but they never really committed to it enough to have it do more than be a source of easy exp.
They should be interacting with the maps way more than they do. Give us branching FATE chains depending on the FATE outcome. FATE chain success should be tied to levels of hostility in entire areas. Maybe opening up merchants with rare goods and collectibles. Maybe provide access to repeatable quests (maybe that reward bicolor gems) if an area is held long enough? Hell, make it so gathering nodes have bonuses while the area afinity is high. Something to inspire people to do them when they don't need the EXP anymore.

New types of FATEs would be appreciated too, preferably ones that aren't so combat focused. Events while traveling don't have to always be life and death.
Help a farmer literally whack some moles with a special hammer.
Help a noble outside a party arrive in the appropriate fashion by listening in on the party-goers.
(go -hide- and select certain points near clusters of npcs talking, dialoge box pops up with the conversation with keywords, go back to the npc and select the appropriate keywords. collect enough intel as a group and the noble enters the party with confidence and style)
Leap-of-faith/cliffhanger style jump-a-thons/collect-a-thons (instead of kill mob or pick up thing to get item) & deliver to npc.
Traveling carnival patrols the zone and sets up minigames on hotspots. Minigames drop tickets and you can trade them in while the troupe is parked. Once they complete a circuit the prize pool changes.

(And FATE NPCs should not disappear unless their character literally walks into an area in which the PC cannot go or see into. I can't believe I hate to say this about an RPG, because NPCs literally disappearing the instant they're no longer relevant takes me RIGHT out of the experience. Raktika did a good job with this on the huntresses chain, I want to see that continuity with every single FATE)

They also need to stop with the client-side NPCs. I get that it reduces server lode, but the Viis running across the road e-v-e-r-y t-i-m-e I enter the crystarium, or the dude who walks up to the nutsboard every time i walk into the area... they're getting old. If you're gonna do clientside events, make them small, and have a pool of what can happen and randomize it, because oh my god I feel like I'm trapped on one of those amusement park rides with the singing anamatronics. Zero immersion.

I'd also like to see more storytelling (environmental and mechanical) off the main path of a zone. I want rewards for exploring. Like the zones are somehow so linear in this game (il mheg is really bad about this in its design). Secret nooks with hidden quests. Multiple routes to get to areas. (shortcuts!) Areas that require puzzle solving or basic jumping to navigate. Just, things that inspire whims and reward you for following them. I play MMOs to recapture that sense of wonder and aventure I had as a kid exploring the woods. SE. Lemme chase an unassuming frog that no one would notice and get rewarded with a friend when I manage to catch it :3

They need to do some more reconnaissance on other mmos on the market on how they do their open worlds because i'm just so bored of XIV's lifeless backdrops for quests. (GW2 and WoW (again) specifically)

They need to break their fear of putting anything remotely challenging in the open world. As things stand, you explore a capped zone and have mindless farms or party-required fates. There's very little to no in between.

This gets even worse as ilvl is boosted during an expansion. I'd rather see some areas that are dangerous to travel alone at launch of an expansion that gradually become challenging -- but not easy -- over time to solo.

This is on top of wanting more reasons to travel in the open world. Blue Mage could have been this, but powerleveling ruined that angle.

Enemies in general should do more status effects. There are plenty in the game to choose from and they're so rarely used. It would also make the corresponding potions that cure them a little more relevent.

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Originally Posted by Roda

The FATE system was a decent idea to implement but they never really committed to it enough to have it do more than be a source of easy exp.
They should be interacting with the maps way more than they do. Give us branching FATE chains depending on the FATE outcome. FATE chain success should be tied to levels of hostility in entire areas. Maybe opening up merchants with rare goods and collectibles. Maybe provide access to repeatable quests (maybe that reward bicolor gems) if an area is held long enough? Hell, make it so gathering nodes have bonuses while the area afinity is high. Something to inspire people to do them when they don't need the EXP anymore.

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They actually did this. In Eastern Thanalan, there's a series of FATEs dealing with that big bridge. Failing the FATE started one chain, and winning started another chain. If you failed, the 2nd part has you rescuing NPCs I believe. There's also the one in the Shroud where you have to take over the bandit camp then defend it. If you fail, you have to take to over again. Both times had merchants that sold different items depending on if you won or lost. The bandit camp for example had a merchant that was only available if you held the camp. They sold a minion and some other goodies, for as long as players had the camp.

There's also the pirate encampment (Poor Maid's Mill) in Upper La Noscea which comes under attack by kobolds (and eventually, a giant couerl), and winning the FATE chain unlocks a qiqirn merchant temporarily that also sells a minion, which is like the aformentioned bandit camp in the Black Shroud and the attack on the bridge in Thanalan. All are FATE chains that are a continuing series of FATEs with branching results based on whether a FATE is failed or completed.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

* Adjust EXP
- Make it so grinding overworld mobs could be a viable method of leveling. Doesn't have to go overboard to invalidate everything else, but would be nice.

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This is not going to happen I'm sorry to say as Yoshi specifically designed the game deliberately to avoid this. He doesn't want players farming trash mobs out on the overworld over and over again in FFXI-style EXP parties. Instead, he wanted to move players over to what he termed "content based EXP", that is, EXP gained through completing content or events such as quests, FATEs and dungeons (he stated this way back during the Beta test when players actually requested that very idea of EXP parties).

Basically, the days of 'Dooms parties' like FFXI are gone and are never coming back here (the closest you can get to that is forming EXP parties to run Palace of the Dead or Eureka, but again that's special content and not available for the regular overworld).

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Originally Posted by Lucke

They actually did this. In Eastern Thanalan, there's a series of FATEs dealing with that big bridge. Failing the FATE started one chain, and winning started another chain. If you failed, the 2nd part has you rescuing NPCs I believe. There's also the one in the Shroud where you have to take over the bandit camp then defend it. If you fail, you have to take to over again. Both times had merchants that sold different items depending on if you won or lost. The bandit camp for example had a merchant that was only available if you held the camp. They sold a minion and some other goodies, for as long as players had the camp.

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Yes I loved those fates at the time. Sad they never expanded the concepts though.

Wrote a lot here and there but in a bit vague-r.. slightly.. (lol) shorter form:

• Archeology and chocobo hot and cold - I think using chocobo for both, but one would be more find it once and done, nice checklist with some nice lore implications and rewards (like recreate some famous armor or statue), and then one that is more repeatable (like chocobo hot and cold of FFIX).
• FATEs and monsters to sometimes award chests which can have bonus exp, tomes, unique buffs / items. Unique buffs could be like infinite sprint for the next 5 minutes (not really infinite.. then but lol you get the point). Growth buff that makes you 20% bigger and deal 20% more damage, etc.
• Revamp of the leve system, I'm thinking madlib sort of system that has a sort of 'big multi-zone' like quest vibe but is very worth the time investment (and therefore maybe limited like previous leve system was, leave crafting leve alone or separate them).
• Hunts, add / upgrade the hunting log to encourage using it like a log for.. hunts ;). Introduce soul fading to NMs such that they leave a mark on the land temporarily when they've died. You can find these marks and based on how faded they are fight them for their rewards (more faded the weaker they are, less rewards, can optionally choose a weaker fade). Increase reward for finding live NMs (like an extra roll from the item table), but also make them not scale as much (except the S ranks, leave them to be the sort of world boss like vibe). When fighting the faded variant may be a bit like Bozja but with phasing (so it feels like a BCNM sort of, like in FFXI). Add unique items with unique effects that are for non-end game fun (may do something powerful, for the period it exists in, but are designed not to eat up the balance concerns of end game- perhaps using special scaling like our collectors earrings to facilitate that with like "open world only affix" or "non-savage / ultimate" affix), special appearances and helpful leveling effects. B ranks to scale to the player (content for those leveling and level caps). Ingredients to be used in crafts, think a bit monster hunter inspired. Now players are encouraged to race each other but you're not ruined if you failed the race (and if you were solo player you could 'probably' solo most of them if you dropped the fade level).
• Consider both mixing and enhancing the FATE system from ShB into other expansions (and itself). To allow players a sense of growth for the whole zone. Completing FATEs, certain side quests, beast tribe quests, etc - all have implications for your zone (while most may be visual, some could be features like shortcuts, npc merchants, new nodes, etc). Besides the normal progression of beast tribes and this new concept of the zone's level affecting the zone, also consider purchasing with your beast tribe tokens zone changes- like you might buy an upgrade that adds a fast travel point and some paved road / tank patrol for the dwarves, etc, etc). I had a thought in that thread dedicated to the idea that you might also seen high rank zones with beast tribe powers to help you level old relics if one wanted, like the slyph may create a fountain that you could bathe your weapon in once a day for some light and then they'd sell sunlit flowers that would give you bonus light per dungeon run (bought with beast tribe currency of course).

• Generally consider adding challenge log (such that they rewards can be substantial without turning into a mega massive holy "ffxi" / everquest era farm), rewards, perhaps like the leve (I call mega leve sometimes), that allow some players to make some substantial progression in the open world if they chose to (some of this in some ways is already true but the systems for them are sometimes a bit circumstantial and or potentially annoying, like why I suggested hunts has an encouraged 'live' mode and yet not a ruined soul faded mode, as sometimes say Balmung comes in as a giant death ball and kills another server's hunts and then that server is mad). Like perhaps a sort of 'relic' open world armor made from NMs and other content of the open world, that you can upgrade over time adding onto it, feeling a bit wild and with the vibe of that expansion / zones. Maybe not the fastest thing to rank up but 'an option' if you wanted to, and comes with benefits like what relic has been in the past, pretty casual friendly.. just time intensive and not always 'the best' (but certainly not the worst, consistently a solid choice of gear and unique looking).

This one is kind of a very wide group that's not just open world but:

Think role play and immersive thoughts. What? Lots of things FFXIV does well but this one I feel, in comparison to other MMOs especially, FFXIV does not. Too busy following formula and consistent rules. So like.. monsters that don't aggro you because they're not there just to be road blocks for gamepaly, they exist to fill the world as well. Not all monsters needing to even be enemies (critters for example). To the open world this means adding secrets and hidden little gems. Maybe on the full moon a cave opens up and there is a special item in there. On the month of your star sign your shrine may give you a blessing. Items may do special effects that describe how they exist / obtained (not just +5 strength). Items may do things for fun, because they're fun - like you might come across 'lighter than a feather chocobo tail feather' item that's not a consumable (man FFXIV is addicted to consumables lol, give me some trinkets dangit) which will grant you slow fall shortly. You're a rogue (ninja), locked chest or doors. You're a dragoon, locked door = jump over the wall. Etc. On the concept of the open world, having camps, and the ability to set up camps, would be awesome - giving some FFXV road trip vibes if possible (but consider classic FF games with the "tent" item as well). In these camps you could use local resources to make buffs for that zone, can pair these meals with an actual cooking item to increase the buff duration while in that zone (to make it so cooking job isn't taken over, these buffs wouldn't replace that- but do extra things), some zones may come with special recipes too like if you craft a certain potion during levin weather (Ixion's) you might make a Bolt Draft which grants you 5 charges of enhanced sprint (faster, while the sprint duration is active sprint is replaced with a unique dash that does lightning damage).

A bit of a larger aside to the whole role play thing is role play merit board (sphere grid). Where each job has exp they earn from a variety of tasks (many large benefits from open world, perhaps challenge log of open world has big exp rewards). These things could be stuff like dragoon gaining fall damage resistance and then upgrading it to no damage (they're lord of jump.. come on.. why does Ninja have this but not dragoon? Well part of it is because FFXIV is a bit too rigid sometimes, imo, where I do think they could take a few tips from other MMOs without going so far as to loose their own sense). These things would be done to avoid any issues with savage / ultimate whether they have to not work in that content or just don't really matter (say maybe fall damage doesn't matter). Besides examples like jump, or maybe mages with special teleports, you'd also get special effect changers like Dark Knight could gain their HW shadow smoke effect for darkside rather than the red goku kaioken looking effect. May also consider special upgrades/side choices for nodes like dragoon 50% damage reduction might be a talent you could spend A LOT of points on for all your jobs, but the 100% damage null would only ever be for Dragoon. Special jump mode for Dragoon that allows them to leap, perhaps even in combat (of the open world), giving them a bit of that hulk jump super dragoon feeling (may use flying unlock as part of it for better pathing scripting, such that if you land on something unpathable you might 'land on your spear' and continue on from there and optionally mount your flying mount). Maybe if you wanted the special teleport on all jobs, you could because you feel too lazy that day to switch jobs but you'd have to unlock that side grade.

As said above, Guildwars 2 is pretty great as far as general over world feeling...but I firmly think it’s already too late for FF, unless they spent an entire expansions worth of effort to do a massive TLC update.

Ways to make the over world more relevant (but I feel is too late):

• Revamp physics engine to allow better world interaction (legit jumping puzzles)
• Revamp flying, or make mounts more interesting (again see GW2 where you can climb up walls etc and flying is more akin to gliding)
• Better server latency, to allow for actual racing or interaction with environment. As is if I am running slightly in front of my wife, on her PC it’s the exact opposite. Impossible to have a “photo finish”. Better latency = moving platform interaction, etc.
• Give multiple ways to interact with open world content. Eg. From GW2: Bandits set a farm on fire. You can a) extinguish flames, b) fight the bandits directly and/or c) try to rescue people/animals.
• Make the world dangerous, with open world places to explore with a “your probably gonna die in there” expectation. This is in direct conflict to what YoshiP wants for the game.

+1. I've seen a lot of BLUs doing FATEs lately, and it's made the world feel very alive. I hope that when/if more Limited jobs get released, the world stays populated like it has been.

I love seeing people doing things out in the world, and I love helping them.

If we had really powerful world bosses that needed policing because they were interfering with something else, that would be cool.

I tanked Cancer today as BLU, and I realized something: It doesn't need obtuse mechanics to be challenging because it has that timer. It's a DPS race. It's still very fun to work with a ragtag group of randoms to bring this huge sack of HP down within the allotted time.

It's an easy fight, even with low DPS, but I remember a time when it wasn't. The building blocks are there for challenging and fun world content. They just need to do more with it.

Scale everything up to your level instead of you down. Nearly every major MMO already does this
Have world bosses and world evens that are worth doing.

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Originally Posted by LogicMouse

Scale everything up to your level instead of you down. Nearly every major MMO already does this
Have world bosses and world evens that are worth doing.

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And give me an auto sync option while you're at it.

And I agree, FATEs or the overworld in general should me way more utilised. We saw hints of that in SB but it's still very bare-bones. In a game where you can teleport and fly everywhere and thus avoid everything if you so choose we should be allowed to have a more challenging areas.

For that to happen, FATEs need a HUGE xp boost. As it is right now they give much less than the Pixie tribe quests (dunno the exact numbers, but something like ~2-3% of total xp vs. ~10% for Pixie tribe quests), and they rank at the same level of patheticness as the one-and-done sidequests with their xp yield. While the sleep-casting dungeon grind (sleep even if I haven't "mastered" the dungeon), still remains, be it with roulettes or spamming the highest level, the king of the grind. Together or better(?) with PotD and that other thingy (never used those two).

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

Overworld is pretty dead imo, here are some garbage ideas.

* More densely packed mobs
- As it stands, mobs are very sparse w/ numbers on the open world. Could certainly benefit from larger packs.

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I disagree completely.
Heavensward onwards because almost every mob is aggressive, it doesn't matter how pretty the areas look, it's not fun to explore on foot because monsters are haphazardly spread and being an inconvenience if you're not past that expansion's range. One thing I'll give 1.X credit for (well, in general open world content was, IMO, better in 1.X) is that despite having mostly crap looking copy-paste terrain it was easier to explore even the dangerous areas by foot/chocobo than it is to explore post ARR zones in their level range.
If we're supposed to wait until unlocking flying to finally be able to explore in relative peace I'll just continue to shrug at whatever effort they put into making maps look great when seen from afar, because to me that doesn't matter much when they're annoying to explore if I keep feet on the ground.

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* Adjust EXP
- Make it so grinding overworld mobs could be a viable method of leveling. Doesn't have to go overboard to invalidate everything else, but would be nice.

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That was the point of levequests, hunting log and fates. But they just abandoned battlecraft leves and hunting logs very early instead of tweaking them to keep them as slower but still alternative to duty grind. I think at the very least they should have made battle leves past lv58. Fates exist, but personally I like having leves to take on my own pace and without blu- I mean, other players threatening my rank when I want as much exp as possible. Besides, levequests can be taken in parties too. Making it so only one player spent the allowance would make these more handy I think.


Personally I just wish they'd bring back caravan escorts and hamlet defense. They were little things that made the overworld feel more alive IMO. The escort fates are super simplified in comparison and they don't feel as immersive.
Open world dungeons would be great too, although they'd have to serve a different purpose to instanced duties. I remember Yoshi-P saying one of the designers wanted to bring open world dungeons back but nothing seems to have came out of that.

I'll also add that, in my humble opinion I'm sure majority will disagree with, relics should never have been tied to their own "large scale instances" and instead should have continued to be associated with activities in the existing maps and duties. That was another thing I'll, without shame, give 1.X credit for.

Here's another suggestion. You know that FATE currency for ShB areas that you can use to exchange for items, including rare crafting mats? Do it for the ARR, HW, and SB areas too. Add area Orchestrion Rolls, rare items and mats from the various treasure hunt portals (at a huge currency price), new minions, a new mount, and maybe a few unique glamour sets. Give us reason to go back to these areas, give us reason to want to FATE grind again.

Improving the overworld has been one of my big, long-term gripes ever since they nerfed FATE EXP back in the day to force people into dungeon spamming, which never really solved the problem of long DPS queues (the classes that most benefited from the EXP alternative) in the process.

As some others have implied, retrofitting new FATE mechanics like bonus mods, maiden pops, and currencies like bi-colored stones would help slightly, but it doesn't invalidate the times where FATEs aren't spawning or can't be reached quickly enough. The systems having greater influence and variety is also a valid concern, but I can tolerate a lack of zone-wide influence if the overall experience is still enjoyable and profitable.

I'd also say it merits revising the idea of ability syncing so we don't lose skills when leveling down, but it also calls into question that a level 70 doing FATEs in the newbie zones probably should be getting more than a few hundred EXP or so. It also warrants revising FATE scaling in real-time so when the trains do choo choo their way through zones, encounters aren't ended in seconds.

Can also tie achievements for the big boss FATEs to rewards like unique mounts, so if you've cleared them all per expansion, you'd get something unique to show for it. Things like Ixion, Odin, Behemoth, and the Coeurl could also probably stand to be more common and readily noticeable in their coming.


But really, I can't stress enough how much running dungeons doesn't appeal to me. I very rarely find them challenging, but at the same time, am also at the mercy of strangers not being derps. Chancing into people in the wild can be fun, but being virtually alone in a zone also shouldn't be a progression death sentence.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

But they just abandoned battlecraft leves and hunting logs very early instead of tweaking them to keep them as slower but still alternative to duty grind.

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I hear you about the leves but I find the non-elite Clan hunts a viable alternative to the hunting logs especially since they're daily instead of one and done.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

-SNIP-
This one is kind of a very wide group that's not just open world but:

Think role play and immersive thoughts. What? Lots of things FFXIV does well but this one I feel, in comparison to other MMOs especially, FFXIV does not. Too busy following formula and consistent rules. So like.. monsters that don't aggro you because they're not there just to be road blocks for gamepaly, they exist to fill the world as well. Not all monsters needing to even be enemies (critters for example).
-SNIP-

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I pretty much agree with everything in this post but I need to highligh tthis because well it's one of the constant things that stick out to me about XIV's take on the open worldl where ONLY RELEVANT THINGS TO YOUR EXP BAR IS DISPLAYED.
Where the hell are the normal bits of wildlife??! Why is everything that moves giant and out to kill me? Why do they roam in designated splotches on the map like someone took a DIREWOLF paintbrush and dabbed it down on one specific section? Is literally EVERY BUG on hydaelyn a 200+ pound goliath? Every non-crotch-censoring squirrel the size of a small mastiff? Even in far more developed areas in the real world, where animals try to stay as far away from humanity as possible, there's more harmless movement in the trees and bushes. The only time I can think that I saw a non-hostile animal in the game is when I can gather a frog jpg out of a bush.

The oceans do an alright job with non-hostile wildlife clutter, but I find being able to target, and kill/interact with these critters to be a very important part of their implementation. If you can't interact with something in a game, it really might as well not even be there. (what with interaction being the main way we experience videogames and all that). SE, seriously. Put a dog npc in the game that isn't a part of a quest. Have it targettable and friendly and let it roam around an area. Let us /pet the dog. This LITTLE thing will bring so much joy. (Hell, have a hidden achievement to /pet the dog X amount of times with a title/minion/glamor item it'll be great. Make X like some stupid high number too. Island sanctuary seems cool, and I really appreciate it. But if you could take this kind of approach to the entirety of the already existing game world, I would appreciate THAT kind of casual content a lot more.)

And another thing to complement the whole of the quoted post. I really wish that the XIV dev team would take the courage of implementing systems like they did with Eureka and Bozja (not talking about the leveling or the actions, but the mechanics encouraging exploration, navigation, narrative, and discovery) and put them to the whole of the open world zones. I'm really tired of the majority of gameplay being locked behind a menu and a queue and the fact that they've taken two expansions to lock map-based content behind a queue and an instance timer really has put a sour taste in my mouth. :(

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Originally Posted by GrumbleBeard

Enemies in general should do more status effects. There are plenty in the game to choose from and they're so rarely used. It would also make the corresponding potions that cure them a little more relevent.

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No, we don't need any of that. I can't stand what this latest WoW expansion has become in regards to this kind of thing. The number of enemies that can CC you in the overworld there just sucks. It's not uncommon for an enemy that takes 30 sec to kill, has an ability that can stun you for 3 sec on a 10 sec CD, and you have to kill 15 of them to complete a quest. Obvious playtime metric padding and I hate it so much.

Do you really want to devote 5+ bag spaces to eye drops, antidotes, pincushions, etc? I don't because storage is already kind of cramped.

Those kind of gameplay mechanics don't add anything positive to the experience -- a monster isn't going to be able to kill you because of any of these status effects so it's inconsequential and purely adds annoyance.

Since I've already made the comparison, I'll continue and say that FF14 overworld is dream compared to WoW, especially since FF14 enemies have actual AI that you can exploit to avoid aggroing them. They either have vision or hearing, and you can move past without aggro if you're careful. Overworld monsters in WoW just aggro to you as soon as you get within X feet of them whether they are looking at you or not.

I think FF14 is way more sophisticated in that regard.

I don't want FF14 overworld to change, because grinding stuff in the overworld isn't even where we get exp anyway. We quest or do FATES.

I would like to see battlecraft leves make a return though.. I enjoy doing them on lower-level characters for a nice change of pace and to provide some context to what my character is doing.

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Originally Posted by gilmorej

No, we don't need any of that. I can't stand what this latest WoW expansion has become in regards to this kind of thing. The number of enemies that can CC you in the overworld there just sucks. It's not uncommon for an enemy that takes 30 sec to kill, has an ability that can stun you for 3 sec on a 10 sec CD, and you have to kill 15 of them to complete a quest. Obvious playtime metric padding and I hate it so much.

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Compared to enemies that do nothing but 1 or 2 AoEs that they share across all levels?

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Originally Posted by gilmorej

Do you really want to devote 5+ bag spaces to eye drops, antidotes, pincushions, etc? I don't because storage is already kind of cramped.

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Yes? I would choose that over endless crafting supplies.

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Originally Posted by gilmorej

Those kind of gameplay mechanics don't add anything positive to the experience -- a monster isn't going to be able to kill you because of any of these status effects so it's inconsequential and purely adds annoyance.

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So increase the damage caused? Have them combo it with other things, stuns/silence? You only ignore them now because they're so weak it's pointless to pay attention to them. If they were deadlier, you would.

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Originally Posted by gilmorej

I think FF14 is way more sophisticated in that regard.

I don't want FF14 overworld to change, because grinding stuff in the overworld isn't even where we get exp anyway. We quest or do FATES.

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I wouldn't call the overworld being a complete waste of time to be in for 99% of the time sophisticated.

Regardless, it's just my opinion. At the end of the day, I'm not going to lose sleep over the state of the overworld. As it stands though, it's not enjoyable in any way to traverse or explore, or kill enemies, or do anything really and I would like it improved.

There's a reason why MMOs developed instanced content and tend to emphasize it - servers struggle as more players enter into open world zones. The overworld is going to end up limited by what the supported game clients are capable of handling.

The more you add to the overworld, the more the servers need to communicate with the player clients. That increases latency for everyone. The more reason players have for being in the overworld, the more players will show up and that increases latency even farther.

Right now, most PS4 players struggle during moderately sized hunt trains and large hunt trains are nearly unplayable for them. Even PC users with good systems but slower internet connectio speeds can struggle. Increasing the content in the overworld and thus the number of players appearing to do that content is going to make the situation worse for their supported game client.

How much more might be possible if SE dropped PS4 support and upped system requirements for PCs? It's hard to say but I definitely do not see PS4 support getting dropped until at least the 7.0 expansion.

More open world content might be nice but it may not be practical from a technical standpoint.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

As said above, Guildwars 2 is pretty great as far as general over world feeling...but I firmly think it’s already too late for FF, unless they spent an entire expansions worth of effort to do a massive TLC update.

Ways to make the over world more relevant (but I feel is too late):

• Revamp physics engine to allow better world interaction (legit jumping puzzles)
• Revamp flying, or make mounts more interesting (again see GW2 where you can climb up walls etc and flying is more akin to gliding)
• Better server latency, to allow for actual racing or interaction with environment. As is if I am running slightly in front of my wife, on her PC it’s the exact opposite. Impossible to have a “photo finish”. Better latency = moving platform interaction, etc.
• Give multiple ways to interact with open world content. Eg. From GW2: Bandits set a farm on fire. You can a) extinguish flames, b) fight the bandits directly and/or c) try to rescue people/animals.
• Make the world dangerous, with open world places to explore with a “your probably gonna die in there” expectation. This is in direct conflict to what YoshiP wants for the game.

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You raise a lot of interesting points, the one that I really look at is the overal environmental responsiveness, that is kind of slow. I got used by now, but I suppose it would improve vastly the feel of a dynamic world if we could do more...I suppose that is something caused by the infamous sphagetti code?

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Originally Posted by Raikai

You raise a lot of interesting points, the one that I really look at is the overal environmental responsiveness, that is kind of slow. I got used by now, but I suppose it would improve vastly the feel of a dynamic world if we could do more...I suppose that is something caused by the infamous sphagetti code?

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I didn't play loads of GW2 but the movement, especially imo the mounts, was pretty nice. FFXIV feels a bit 'old' in that regard. Especially if you think of the collision. I also feel the different types of movement and the pretty accurate movement helps in terms of just plainly engaging with the game (gives it a more responsive and dynamic feel, more.. tactile). I don't want hyper old school era travel but I do think it's neat to be like "oh I could use X mount or ability to parkour up that mountain in 20 seconds" vs something more FFXIV like where it's like "hold w and spacebar for 15 seconds to get to the top, yeeeeet". Each person will have their own concept of what's too much or not enough but personally I think some more engagement with the environment would be a good thing (while still trying to keep maximum travel times to very reasonable durations, shouldn't take forever to get somewhere but "getting there" could be part of the fun rather than "hold w").


I'm not sure how FFXIV does it but it makes me wonder why it's not more like some other games that have it far more closely based on the models of stuff (like if you used the editor for a bethesda game, if you made a house it would have collision exactly like you'd expect- but if SE makes a house.. the house roof may not have it because.. reasons.. or the collision may be loose and so you can hang off the edge by a lot.. it's all sort of fuzzy).



Maybe super hard to fix in FFXIV without some major reworks but I really hope they can fine tune the experience next time around if not this time.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

Overworld is pretty dead imo, here are some garbage ideas.

* Adjust EXP
- Make it so grinding overworld mobs could be a viable method of leveling. Doesn't have to go overboard to invalidate everything else, but would be nice.

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You know theres this thing - don't know if you heard of it, it's called: MSQ. Research it.

Was waiting for a thread like this to come up. I'm an open world person. I love to do open world stuffs, not just the usual gathering or mining or fishing or fates. TBH I personally feel the open world in FFXIV too bland. Look at all the maps, empty. But at this point to implement something that large of a scale isn't going to happen. To revamp from AAR up to the current xpac like what someone mentioned gonna take an xpac worth of time. But it is my greatest wish that they would do something about this in the future xpacs to make world maps more interesting rather than just fating here and there.

Peace

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Originally Posted by SavishSalacious

You know theres this thing - don't know if you heard of it, it's called: MSQ. Research it.

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You can only level 1 job with MSQ

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I'd rather see some areas that are dangerous to travel alone at launch of an expansion that gradually become challenging -- but not easy -- over time to solo.

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Hard disagree. I'd rather see more encouragement of exploration. Especially because they don't give tools that aid traversal in this game like previous games had, such as invisibility and levitation skills. I don't want my ability to get aether currents to depend on my ability to get random people together, but on my own ability to explore and puzzle out how to get to them. Or have my ability to go and see things limited to only what others find the easiest to go and see.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

You raise a lot of interesting points, the one that I really look at is the overal environmental responsiveness, that is kind of slow. I got used by now, but I suppose it would improve vastly the feel of a dynamic world if we could do more...I suppose that is something caused by the infamous sphagetti code?

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Don't know in detail, but Guildwars 2's code is built in a way they have legit semi-pvp-but-actually-minigames, such as mario-kart style races, or dashing to collect coins like Sonic, or even things like platform/jumping/launching based dodgeball. It's not amazing, but it's at the very least interesting and something to do outside of the main game.

In addition, the jumping puzzles are just generally fun to do and feel more akin to playing a 3D mario game than an MMO.

FFXIV's biggest problem is they tacked on a jump system late into the game, so when you jump you have no control over movement while in the air. Rather than actually jumping, the player is more "teleporting" to their landing site. This means we can't have things like "jump over the laser beam", and can't really have fine control in a jumping puzzle environment. Moreover, the game has wonky hit boxes that make no sense.

Try the Kugane clock tower to see what I mean; what is an exercise in cheesing the system involves standing/landing on invisible platforms for hours of frustration on your first try would be like.. 10 min in guild wars 2.

More of a personal thing, but as a player who is (probably overly) confident in their jumping-game skills, FFXIV is incredibly frustrating. And this is coming from someone who has 100% the siteseeing log.

Anyway, long story short, better physics is just fun. It's just genuinely fun to blaze across the map on my roller beetle and rocket off walls or up ramps (it's like a sonic the hedgehog motorcycle?).

I'd like to see more unclickable NPCs wandering, gathering, interacting with each other, etc. before disappearing.

I remember I once found a wandering NPC at a far edge of the map in Coerthas Western Highlands. I think he was wearing retainer outfit and had a Chocobo walking alongside him before shortly disappearing. It was pretty surreal as that was the only time I've seen it happen. They weren't clickable and I would've easily missed them as I was flying by in a hurry. I'd like more of that as it adds a bit more of life to the open world even if it is artificial.

if they made the open world too interesting, zones would be congested a lot because there would be too many people idling in there waiting for the stuff to happen. remember they can really only hold 300 people. and they don't really want to have instanced zones too much because then it becomes too easy for hunting.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Try the Kugane clock tower to see what I mean; what is an exercise in cheesing the system involves standing/landing on invisible platforms for hours of frustration on your first try would be like.. 10 min in guild wars 2.

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Shout out to wildstar which had literal Giant Laser Double Dutch as a raid encounter.

They're not going to make the overworld more interesting or lucrative because they want players routed through duties.

If you buffed the exp and made huge packs of mobs, there'd be less people going through dungeons. They don't want that.

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* More densely packed mobs
- As it stands, mobs are very sparse w/ numbers on the open world. Could certainly benefit from larger packs.

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They made them sparse so you don't get situations like in ARR where they all gang up on you and kill you.

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* Adjust EXP
- Make it so grinding overworld mobs could be a viable method of leveling. Doesn't have to go overboard to invalidate everything else, but would be nice.

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This would make it viable for botters and for people to farm mob packs that people need for quests.

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* Allow overworld to spawn NM type enemies, similar to Eureka-esque stuff, for killing mobs.
- incorporate the Duel FATE mechanic for angering certain mob factions. Allow the rewards to be chunks of gil, tomes, misc mats, or Maps with higher success rates.

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We have FATEs already but I think it is definitely an idea to incorporate bozja-like features into the open world generally.

There is a good amount of open world content though: Blue Mage, FATEs, Treasure Maps, fighting A ranks with a party, spawning S ranks. Hunting in the open world has kept me busy for months at a time and is really fun.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

This would make it viable for botters and for people to farm mob packs that people need for quests.

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This really isn't a good argument since bots have no trouble going into instances and farming them endlessly and teleporting from MSQ to MSQ. Like, I'm not a fan of grinding mobs for no narrative purpose (aka, not farming for drops, an achievement, or for a quest, all are types of naratives), but you might as well remove the whole game if "bots can do it" is a reason to not do something. :T

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Originally Posted by Roda

This really isn't a good argument since bots have no trouble going into instances and farming them endlessly

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Yes but this doesn't disrupt other players because it's in an instance.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Yes but this doesn't disrupt other players because it's in an instance.

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I guess you don't remember when the bots literally took up every single instance of Wanderer's Palace? Where if you queued for it, it would get stuck on "reserving instance" so no one could complete the unlock quest.
XIV needs better game moderation and cheat protection. Game design doesn't really factor in to the mess we've got now.

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Originally Posted by Roda

I guess you don't remember when the bots literally took up every single instance of Wanderer's Palace? Where if you queued for it, it would get stuck on "reserving instance" so no one could complete the unlock quest.
XIV needs better game moderation and cheat protection. Game design doesn't really factor in to the mess we've got now.

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And to be fair, this problem hasn’t happened since, so... problem fixed?