Does the Sage have a 1.5s GCD like the Astrologian?

After watching the reveal trailer for the Sage i got the feeling that die GCD of the Sage was short. The first ability (the normal heal i think) feels more like an Astrologian than an White Mage from the casting time.

If that is true could we say that the Sage is the shield version of the Astrologian and get an oGCD heavy mechanik like the Astrologian?

That would be nice.

It would be nice, but it's too early to tell.
As far we we know they simply cast that spell using something like lightspeed.
We probably won't know until the Fanfest.

AST doesn't have a 1.5s GCD. They still have a 2.5s GCD, but their cast time is 1.5s on many spells giving them time to weave.

They said Sage has the ability to improve their skills, its possible one of these abilities reduces their casting speed but we wont know before closer to launch, unless they invite people to play the classes[which is doubtful this year]

All healers’ basic heal (Cure/Physick/Benefic) has a cast time of 1.5s. It stands to reason that Sage’s basic heal was what’s being shown in the video, hence why it seems to go off faster than spells usually do.

It does seem like the Sage uses an instant-cast or off-GCD barrier spell though.

It’s not what I’d prefer but when the devs said ‘temporarily strengthens its own magics’ I immediately assumed they meant DPS (because what else would a healer have to strengthen lol). I can’t imagine them giving Sage its own Lightspeed for healing spells, since fast-casting has gradually become Astrologian’s thing (to facilitate card weaving).

Considering the demand for a dps healer I bet Sage will be their attempt to appease that demand. It’ll be extremely light on healing and only have a few shields but everything else will be pure dps rotations and self-buffs for damage. They’ll probably make Scholar have a billion DoTs and it’s own Fester so it can compete

Lastly I’m predicting that as soon as raids drop in 6.0 there’s gonna be huge balance issues because everyone will be running Sage/Scholar for the extra dps boost. Either that, or Sage/Scholar will be less overall dps than White Mage / Astrologian and nobody will touch them with a barge pole because shields are functionally redundant in all content, so a healer can really only be judged on their dps output (including party dps boosts like cards or Stratagem of course)

I was curious about this too so timed it.
The first healing spell we see does have a 1.5s cast time, like cure1, benefic1, and physic
However, the first dps spell we see them using has a full 2.5s cast time so they’re unlike AST.

Call me cynical, but I am worried it'll be Nocturnal AST in new robes.


But with that said....

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Originally Posted by Sathona

They said Sage has the ability to improve their skills, its possible one of these abilities reduces their casting speed but we wont know before closer to launch, unless they invite people to play the classes[which is doubtful this year]

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I missed this. So, colour me (skeptically) interested. I used to play FFXI's SCH, which had a system like this and I loved it. It's also a feature of DRK I miss.

Honestly, I don't care anymore, if there's one thing that should be homogenized across the board across the 3 healers, it should be the filler nuke being a 1.5 cast time, too be honest way
too many of the issues that plague WHM and SCH are the lack of, or how punishing, their weaving space is. I get the argument of "but it gives us something to optimize" but at the same time actively punishing 2 out of 3 of the healers for healing when 1 is nigh devoid of the same punishment is just bad.

For all of the flaws with FFXIV's pvp system, the fact all 3 healers have the 1.5 gcd nukes feels super good in my opinion.

Brandedblade I completely agree and it's one of the big reasons why I play AST and no other healer.
And now after doing that for long enough I've low key become unable to play the others.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Honestly, I don't care anymore, if there's one thing that should be homogenized across the board across the 3 healers, it should be the filler nuke being a 1.5 cast time, too be honest way
too many of the issues that plague WHM and SCH are the lack of, or how punishing, their weaving space is. I get the argument of "but it gives us something to optimize" but at the same time actively punishing 2 out of 3 of the healers for healing when 1 is nigh devoid of the same punishment is just bad.

For all of the flaws with FFXIV's pvp system, the fact all 3 healers have the 1.5 gcd nukes feels super good in my opinion.

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Hard disagree, optimizing around limited weave spaces is fun and AST's punishment for this is overall lower potencies. I also feel like it's a core aspect of AST's identity and flow.
Healing shouldn't feel punishing if you're not trying to parse.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

Hard disagree, optimizing around limited weave spaces is fun and AST's punishment for this is overall lower potencies. I also feel like it's a core aspect of AST's identity and flow.
Healing shouldn't feel punishing if you're not trying to parse.

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Healing being inherently punishing to optimize around is why we have the issues of SE not knowing what to do with SCH's Aetherflow, and why we have issue's with the WHM's Lilly system. It's why people complain that AST is capable of so much free healing. I get it. I truly do, because you gave the exact same statement I said, "It gives us something to opimitze around." but it's also part of the issue everyone seems to be having with SCH and WHM to begin with.

Just think, for SCH for example, they can get rid of Ruin II and potentially give us back Miasma, that way we have our multiple dots to manage, while still keeping the same general amount of buttons to manage. People are always complaining that Ruin II will always feel bad to use, so giving sch the 1.5 treatment means we don't have to utilize Ruin II and we can replace it's optimization with something else like having actual dot maintenance.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

Hard disagree, optimizing around limited weave spaces is fun and AST's punishment for this is overall lower potencies. I also feel like it's a core aspect of AST's identity and flow.
Healing shouldn't feel punishing if you're not trying to parse.

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WHM is currently the only class in the game where clipping is a part of gameplay and SCH pays high taxes to weave. I personally don't find trying to mitigate and optimize clunky, broken class design fun. I'd rather have smooth, well designed gameplay instead. If they don't add the 1.5 sec cast, both WHM and SCH badly need more free weave and their gameplay improved.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

WHM is currently the only class in the game where clipping is a part of gameplay and SCH pays high taxes to weave. I personally don't find trying to mitigate and optimize clunky, broken class design fun. I'd rather have smooth, well designed gameplay instead. If they don't add the 1.5 sec cast, both WHM and SCH badly need more free weave and their gameplay improved.

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they really need to bring back miasma 2 for better weaving and to heighten the skill ceiling of sch... giving sch something like ruin iv would also make weaving less punishing and give more room for optimization

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

WHM is currently the only class in the game where clipping is a part of gameplay and SCH pays high taxes to weave. I personally don't find trying to mitigate and optimize clunky, broken class design fun. I'd rather have smooth, well designed gameplay instead. If they don't add the 1.5 sec cast, both WHM and SCH badly need more free weave and their gameplay improved.

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False, SMN clips as well and so does BLM at least in the opener.

WHM's gameplay is very fine, only SCH is kinda poor because of pet jank and aetherflow, neither of them have anything to do with 1.5 casts.

AST has the lowest aDPS and giving the other healers more weaving space will crush it.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

False, SMN clips as well and so does BLM at least in the opener.

WHM's gameplay is very fine, only SCH is kinda poor because of pet jank and aetherflow, neither of them have anything to do with 1.5 casts.

AST has the lowest aDPS and giving the other healers more weaving space will crush it.

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Clipping your GCD frequently is jank as hell. "Don't make the other healers play smoothly, my overpowered main job that currently dominates both healing power and raid DPS couldn't handle good design in its competition" isn't a reason to block said good design.

Now, I'm all for finding a different way to smooth out clipping if the design time allows, but "WHM's gameplay is very fine"? Puh-lease. GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Clipping your GCD frequently is jank as hell. "Don't make the other healers play smoothly, my overpowered main job that currently dominates both healing power and raid DPS couldn't handle good design in its competition" isn't a reason to block said good design.

Now, I'm all for finding a different way to smooth out clipping if the design time allows, but "WHM's gameplay is very fine"? Puh-lease. GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE GLARE.

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Yeah WHM is boring as hell but it's fine in what it's trying to do. Be immobile and do big DPS or big heals + having to optimize lily usage for mobility. Giving it constant weave spaces will 1) make WHM much more mobile and 2) yes lower the skill ceiling.
WHM does not NEED weave spaces anywhere near as much as AST does. They don't have to deal with a ton of oGCD heals and most importantly, cards. Though an argument could be made for SCH for a 3rd nuke that deals more damage than Ruin but less than Broil with one weaving space.

If you want WHM to get one or two more weave spaces now and then, alright, but one every GCD is insane and would also only further homogenize healers.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

If you want WHM to get one or two more weave spaces now and then, alright,

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That's all we're asking for~

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

False, SMN clips as well and so does BLM at least in the opener.

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I don't play SMN and can't speak for it but BLM is a very well designed class and years ahead of WHM. Between triplecast, swiftcast, procs and Xeno you get plenty of weave and you have BTL and AM for on-demand movement. One in the opener is hardly WHM levels of clip. WHM gets none of that, just a 30 sec window every Dia refresh then it has to literally dip into its healing lilies just to move or weave.

Outside of well practiced re-clears, healers have to react to unexpected situations more often, such as dropping a temp, excog or bene on a dps who got hit by an avoidable mech, needing plenary or temp to boost an emergency aoe heal, swift raise in general and so on. For WHM this very often results in a hard clip and for SCH either a clip or a tax that's almost as bad. There is nothing in WHM/SCH gameplay to smooth out this potential reactive aspect of gameplay and integrate oGCD's with casts, while AST flows nicely, weaving the needed oGCD's in with their GCD's. There's no reason for this clunkiness, it's not enhancing the experience.

We're just too used to how the devs have created healers that we're almost convinced it's meant to be that way. We're "meant" to pay dps tax. We're "meant" to be less mobile. The idea of mobile but more complex and engaging instead just doesn't even register to us, despite the fact it'd probably be more fun to play. Because it's meant to be clunky.
I mean really, you could give WHM/SCH the 1.5 sec cast and make AST's dps GCD instant. That keeps the identity intact. Then you have room for a much more engaging and challenging toolkit.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I don't play SMN and can't speak for it but BLM is a very well designed class and years ahead of WHM. Between triplecast, swiftcast, procs and Xeno you get plenty of weave and you have BTL and AM for on-demand movement. One in the opener is hardly WHM levels of clip. WHM gets none of that, just a 30 sec window every Dia refresh then it has to literally dip into its healing lilies just to move or weave.

Outside of well practiced re-clears, healers have to react to unexpected situations more often, such as dropping a temp, excog or bene on a dps who got hit by an avoidable mech, needing plenary or temp to boost an emergency aoe heal, swift raise in general and so on. For WHM this very often results in a hard clip and for SCH either a clip or a tax that's almost as bad. There is nothing in WHM/SCH gameplay to smooth out this potential reactive aspect of gameplay and integrate oGCD's with casts, while AST flows nicely, weaving the needed oGCD's in with their GCD's. There's no reason for this clunkiness, it's not enhancing the experience.

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A party member taking free damage seldom needs to be healed raight away in a way that causes clipping. 99% of the time you have time for at least a GCD or two and create a weave window with lilies or ruin for example. If it is urgent enough to warrant clipping, it'd warrant cast interruption too, AST included.

even when not reacting to anything white mage clips just trying to do its rotation because assize doesn't line up with dia. also if you use dia's weave for assize as you should, you can only use 1 out of the 8 other ogcds whm has (3 of which should be used on cooldown). white mage desperately needs at least 1 or 2 more dps-neutral weave spots per minute.

even something as basic as making dia last 15 seconds (with adjusted potency) would be a significant improvement over white mages current state

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

A party member taking free damage seldom needs to be healed raight away in a way that causes clipping. 99% of the time you have time for at least a GCD or two and create a weave window with lilies or ruin for example. If it is urgent enough to warrant clipping, it'd warrant cast interruption too, AST included.

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Oh snap this is your 69th post.
Nice~

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

A party member taking free damage seldom needs to be healed raight away in a way that causes clipping. 99% of the time you have time for at least a GCD or two and create a weave window with lilies or ruin for example. If it is urgent enough to warrant clipping, it'd warrant cast interruption too, AST included.

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There's a massive difference between a weave after 1.5 sec and maybe not having a window for 8-10 seconds. Clutch heals happen all the time in prog. You're also stating what I just mentioned in that you have to take a Ruin tax or burn a heal lily (they aren't unlimited) just to create that weave window.

There's also the fact that sometimes WHM just can't drop a Benison, Plenary, Asylum or Temp at a reasonable spot for some mechanics without a clip, so even at high end gameplay you see WHM's with plenty of casts on these missing. Also clipping is often unavoidable even at the highest level. AST however has almost full access to its oGCD kit at all times.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

AST has the lowest aDPS and giving the other healers more weaving space will crush it.

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AST beats or is on par with WHM/SCH's with 100% uptime. Surely you understand how cards and raid buffs work?

Weaving potential should have no relation to job output as numbers can be adjusted whenever the devs deem it neccessary. Unfortunately, the devs either don't understand or deliberately cripple whm for weaving windows. Ast has 1-1 weaving space.

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Originally Posted by QooEr

even when not reacting to anything white mage clips just trying to do its rotation because assize doesn't line up with dia. also if you use dia's weave for assize as you should, you can only use 1 out of the 8 other ogcds whm has (3 of which should be used on cooldown). white mage desperately needs at least 1 or 2 more dps-neutral weave spots per minute.

even something as basic as making dia last 15 seconds (with adjusted potency) would be a significant improvement over white mages current state

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The massive loss of useful, dps-neutral weaving spaces after they streamlined dots was my biggest gripe with WHM.
Shortening the duration with adjusted potencies on WHM would do wonders for the gameplay and wouldn't dip into another healer's class fantasy. WHM having the heavy-hitting short-time dot would fit well and solve the problem of lack of weaving windows.
For SCH I'd love a 2nd dot that is equal to Broil in terms of potency with shorter duration. That way it's not something you need to keep up for dps but rather something you use for weaving/ movement; clipping 1-2 ticks would still be a dps gain over Ruin II, but it's a dps loss over Ruin II before a certain point. Having to weigh your options imo fits SCH really well too.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

False, SMN clips as well and so does BLM at least in the opener.

WHM's gameplay is very fine, only SCH is kinda poor because of pet jank and aetherflow, neither of them have anything to do with 1.5 casts.

AST has the lowest aDPS and giving the other healers more weaving space will crush it.

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There is absolutely no reason to have constant clips on WHM just to play properly. I'm all for having to optimise but even the most experienced and optimised WHMs deal with clips after avoiding every oGCD aside from Assize as much as possible possible. Now imagine that on a WHM that actually uses the toolkit. It's incredibly bad design to discourage the WHM from using as much of their toolkit as possible to avoid even more clips than they already have. And to top it off you need to apply PI before using Rapture if you want/ need extra healing... before those precious few instants you already have.
"Glare as much as possible, ignore your toolkit as much as possible, use lilies when you need to move/ weave not when you need to heal and hope the whole raids adjusts their mapping around your disadvantage" is okay for the good/ optimal way to play?
The first question for a healing skill should be "Do we need the healing now or later?" and not "Do I need to move/ weave?", making the healing an afterthought.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Honestly, I don't care anymore, if there's one thing that should be homogenized across the board across the 3 healers, it should be the filler nuke being a 1.5 cast time, too be honest way
too many of the issues that plague WHM and SCH are the lack of, or how punishing, their weaving space is. I get the argument of "but it gives us something to optimize" but at the same time actively punishing 2 out of 3 of the healers for healing when 1 is nigh devoid of the same punishment is just bad.

For all of the flaws with FFXIV's pvp system, the fact all 3 healers have the 1.5 gcd nukes feels super good in my opinion.

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I wish I could like this post twice, this so much this.