Been gone a long time and know I missed a lot

I wound up getting through about a 3rd of the HW story before my long absence from the game and as the title says, I know a lot has changed.

Can people give me a quick run down on the current state of tanks and where to go for more information on where each class stands and play suggestions?

I'd recommend joining the Balance discord, as for a really shallow rundown GNB and DRK are both weave heavy tanks while WAR and PLD are both more friendly and forgiving in their jobs.

Overall the tanks are balanced and fulfill their function, unless you plan to play high skilled and want to strive for speed kills, PLD, GNB and DRK are the most used tanks for those tasks, while WAR sadly with how Inner release works can't push his numbers higher, so you won't be able to fullfill a speed kill with a WAR

Compared to HW:
- tank stances are no longer unique and you keep it activated all the time, no more damage penalty, building hate is brainless easy now.
- we finally wear fending accessories, no strength melds since main stats can't be melded anymore.
- parry removed, we have tenacity but like parry we don't want it on our melds since it's not necessary.
- all tanks dps are balanced and no longer have passive buffs like strength down or magic down, slashing rebuff removed from the game.
- DRK gameplay doesn't exist anymore, is basically a marauder branch now.
- PLD just literally evolved and gets way better, WAR get simplified and suffer with DRK the stigma of being the same job with different skin.
- GNB added.

Overall tanking has become extremely simple to play now for good and bad, all jobs are balanced and none of them are really complex to maximize, PLD and GNB are slightly complex and engaging while DRK and WAR are pretty much brainless now so enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Takamorisan

I'd recommend joining the Balance discord, as for a really shallow rundown GNB and DRK are both weave heavy tanks while WAR and PLD are both more friendly and forgiving in their jobs.

Overall the tanks are balanced and fulfill their function, unless you plan to play high skilled and want to strive for speed kills, PLD, GNB and DRK are the most used tanks for those tasks, while WAR sadly with how Inner release works can't push his numbers higher, so you won't be able to fullfill a speed kill with a WAR

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Dark knight is not weave heavy. Its essentially WAR.

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Originally Posted by SiriusSaltstice

Dark knight is not weave heavy. Its essentially WAR.

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I never realized having the most actions of all tanks in their opener, 6min reopener and only 1-2 CPM less on average than GNB and both having ~10 more than PLD/WAR meant that DRK was not weave heavy!

Must be because DRK having 1 similar action in effect to WAR automatically means they are just exactly the same. It's not like DRK operates on 60, 90, and 120 burst windows 2 of which have 4 elective consecutive double weaves versus Warriors 1 mandatory weave every 30 seconds! I guess by this logic PLD is also just a WAR clone because they press a buff and press their big button 4 times with a little sprinkle at the end. I guess if you think about it, GNB also just presses Fell Cleave but broken into 3 buttons with no branching choices... WAR clone!

Oh but damn, because Delirium doesn't auto crit like Inner Release it's automatically inferior. :( I would've loved to have stifled my melding options and having the lowest damage potential because all the other tanks potencies are balanced around my auto crit damage... except they can crit. :(((

Gone are the days when DRK was all about Souleater spam with an aggro combo that pretended to exist and Blood Weapon was true speed allowing us to press 1-2-3 just a little bit faster. :'( We feel and look so slow now with our multiple greatsword swings in between our other sword swings and edgey magic flinging. I miss having to spam a magical seizure button more and feeling 20% faster with my souleater combo!

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Originally Posted by SiriusSaltstice

Dark knight is not weave heavy. Its essentially WAR.

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Well, it is weave-heavy for like, 10 seconds once every minute... and then you go back to sleep.

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Originally Posted by SwordswornFox

Can people give me a quick run down on the current state of tanks and where to go for more information on where each class stands and play suggestions?

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As for where each job "stands" - all 4 are perfectly adequate for any tanking and all tank comps are viable in content as both MT and OT with very, very slight advantages between them. DRK/WAR are a bit better at MT/personal mitigation, while PLD/GNB do slightly more damage, with PLD being a tad weaker than GNB but having some extra utility(but again - these differences are very small).

The playstyles are also super simple in both mitigation and dps aspects and close enough to each other that you should have zero issue switching after you learn to play just one of them, as many of their elements work analogously or even straight up the same. You might as well just pick whatever speaks to you the most aesthetically and if you want to change later for whatever reason, it's easy enough to just level another job, especially with how fast the dungeon queues are for tanks.

Overall tanking has become extremely easy this expansion so it should be no problem getting back into it. If you just want to play something "comfy" then you can't go wrong with tanks, although you might find them a bit lacking in the challenge department after playing for a while.

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Originally Posted by Satarn

Overall tanking has become extremely easy this expansion so it should be no problem getting back into it. If you just want to play something "comfy" then you can't go wrong with tanks, although you might find them a bit lacking in the challenge department after playing for a while.

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That's what I was gathering from reading the forums and the class skills.

I came back with my gf in tow(well more she wanted to try 14 and I rebooted my account to join her) and figured I'd run tank or heals for her at least at the start. Back in HW I wasn't really interesting the DPS classes till MCH and now SAM and DNC look fun for DPS dabbling later on.

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Originally Posted by Takamorisan

I'd recommend joining the Balance discord, as for a really shallow rundown GNB and DRK are both weave heavy tanks while WAR and PLD are both more friendly and forgiving in their jobs.

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This is solid advice take it, Balance is a school for players willing to learn job rotations.

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Originally Posted by Takamorisan

Overall the tanks are balanced and fulfill their function, unless you plan to play high skilled and want to strive for speed kills, PLD, GNB and DRK are the most used tanks for those tasks, while WAR sadly with how Inner release works can't push his numbers higher, so you won't be able to fullfill a speed kill with a WAR

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It's mainly GNB/PLD, DRK is very fight situational this raid tier.

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Originally Posted by shao32

PLD and GNB are slightly complex and engaging while DRK and WAR are pretty much brainless now so enjoy.

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He is correct, GNB/PLD have adjustable rotations based on fights, while DRK/WAR essentially spams 1 button with weaving during their main Burst.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

Gone are the days when DRK was all about Souleater spam with an aggro combo that pretended to exist and Blood Weapon was true speed allowing us to press 1-2-3 just a little bit faster. :'( We feel and look so slow now with our multiple greatsword swings in between our other sword swings and edgey magic flinging. I miss having to spam a magical seizure button more and feeling 20% faster with my souleater combo!

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You make it sound as if DRK is now suddenly anything else but spamming 1-2-3, except instead of Dark Arts in-between you do Edge.
I also find it hilarious how people complained about having to press DA all the time between GCDs, but rename it to "Edge of something" and it's suddenly new and engaging gameplay?


If you think about it the only thing that changed between Stormblood and now is that you lost some unique oGCDs and that you press "Dark Arts" less often because both your MP regen and your speed got nerfed into the ground.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

You make it sound as if DRK is now suddenly anything else but spamming 1-2-3, except instead of Dark Arts in-between you do Edge.
I also find it hilarious how people complained about having to press DA all the time between GCDs, but rename it to "Edge of something" and it's suddenly new and engaging gameplay?


If you think about it the only thing that changed between Stormblood and now is that you lost some unique oGCDs and that you press "Dark Arts" less often because both your MP regen and your speed got nerfed into the ground.

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Pretty much. It's pointing out the false delusion that DRK was any more different prior in the GCD department with imo the inferior Dark Arts. Edge has changed from a weak "140 potency oGCD with extra steps" that had double the usage thanks to how marginal the button press itself is to a more slower paced build up with a bigger release for said MP. Frankly? I'm all for it. Having played all three versions of DRK extensively and despite having a fondness for it's original iteration in heavensward, the very base concept and direction of DRK in ShB is my personal favourite of them all. DRK has become a bursty oGCD class with the highest impact on buff windows(which were heavily nerfed this expansion unfortunately) lending to it the most flexible rotation for prog and optimal playstyles.

Instead of spazzing out between each combination of sword swing, DRK now does a rapid full body swings with the greatsword which compliments a sense of speed and looks more visually pleasing to me. I never found DRK feeling any meaningfully faster with old bloodweapon GCD reduction and viewed DRK as always being about their oGCD and resources. I don't really see the appeal in a self insulated constant personal DPS and think that the new optimal, and more importantly optional, playstyle of building up all resources to explode into windows more conducive of team play, even though buffs are less important these days.

Whether people found the old faster resource generation with a tiny pool to work with more fun or not is subjective. There are people who enjoyed that(I did as well, the constant pressure of eyeing your MP bar was unique) and then there are people who don't, which was the perceived flaw of old Dark Arts and why a rework was put through this expansion.

ShB DRK has flaws and feels like it has less than its previous iteration which can be attributed to DRK being butchered for most of its skills and animations for cross role actions alongside the revamp. Delirium sucks and activity outside the battery window(which is bound to happen to a burst class) is barren of any oGCDs besides the, arguably rather fun, TBN proccing to prepare for the burst window and lack of GCD choice other than natural spillers(This was never any different than before btw). Certain beloved actions were completely changed(the once unique and rather overpowered Abyssal Drain and the more potent and frequent Salted Earth) and is understandable why some people feel the way they do. Not to mention the huge jebait that is Living Shadow. :mad:

The biggest crime for me is the lack of kit cohesion and resource interplay. DRK's primary identity above it all has always been about its resources. The pacing being my preference is great and seemingly for alot of other people as well but the lack of any interactivity between the three besides MP>Dark Arts leaves alot to be desired. The GCD manipulation of old TBN and the alchemic AD+TBN resource shifting in aoe was some great gameplay.

DRK fills a particular niche now in that it is the faster, oGCD burst orientated tank, and there are people like myself who greatly enjoy the new direction. My heart goes out to older DRK vets who enjoyed the baseline of HW/ShB being just a stream of actions as I can understand how losing a playstyle can feel pretty bad. But if said players didn't have any cling to old resource pacing or general DRK aesthetic, then a new class now exists that fulfills that busy and varied GCD playstyle with intermittent oGCDs exist and has been implemented this expansion.

You can critique new DRK but you can do it without being deluded about old DRK being objectively better (it wasn't). It is both unfair to the pros of new DRK and the players who enjoy it to break it down to just "WAR Clone" based on *one* *single* skill. (spoiler: it's delirium)

Lying about DRK which my first post responded to is just straight up infuriating and shows how shallow minded and hivemind some people can be.

Oh and as an additional bonus, CPM doesn't directly translate to difficulty or skill. MCH and MNK are spammy yet regarded as one of the easiest DPS classes. GNB and GNB players love to pretend their class is "DPS like(when DPS themselves are barely any more difficult than tanks)" and high skill when there is virtually no choice in their rigid, auto aligning, and 2 point resource rotation.

It's more than just Delirium, in SB specifically yeah DRK still was efectively a 1 combo job with a ocasional bloodspiller here and there, thats the base but Delirium alone doesn't make DRK a WAR clone, the nerfs on APM, MP and total disconection has settled that DRK have 10s of oGCD gameplay and after that you just have 50s of boring simplified WAR gameplay at contrary that SB despite having the same GCD base was like a total diferent job.

I always call DRK a WAR clone not bcs Delirium despite of playing a big role on in my opinion terrible direction of the job (other opinions are respetable) but how just 1/6 of total gameplay is seems to be something that remember DRK and 5/6 are just that, a long, boring and uninteresting copy pasta of WAR rythm and simplified execution gameplay and to be honest we have to much jobs already following that mold already and for disgrace the entire tank roster is the same in that way, DRK was unique in the role and i would love if we have it back, he have 3 other jobs doing the conentrate all your fire on the targert moments already.