Existential crisis here

Need help to know the race of Lucia Junius.....I can't sleep the night :confused:, please warriors of light illuminate my path!

Garlean (10char)

But are Garleans humans?

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Originally Posted by ConcettaRamirez

But are Garleans humans?

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All playable races are 'human', that's why there are cross breeds like Hilda and Arenvald.

well technically Garleans is a race Native Garleans can be distinguished by the presence of a "third eye" on the forehead

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

All playable races are 'human', that's why there are cross breeds like Hilda and Arenvald.

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Hrothgar are Human?
-Big Think-

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Hrothgar are Human?
-Big Think-

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Hrothgar may be a grey area. XD
Until we have some lore that confirms or denies the existence of half-Hrothgar half-other-race offspring.
Though it could be theorised that's exactly what Miqote are.

Remember all the races are the result of the original race of the Amaurotine's world being fractured into reflections and the races being fractured along with it.
I don't know what that would make the Amaurotine's true form look like though, some kind of furry dragonoid alien looking species? XD

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Hrothgar may be a grey area. XD
Until we have some lore that confirms or denies the existence of half-Hrothgar half-other-race offspring.
Though it could be theorised that's exactly what Miqote are.

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Miqote were merely the missing link all along.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Hrothgar may be a grey area. XD
Until we have some lore that confirms or denies the existence of half-Hrothgar half-other-race offspring.

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You mean Miqote? /jk

The Japanese term for all of the sentient races in the game is translated as "human" for convenience's sake.

Technically 'pure-blood Garlean' seems to be more a genetic trait than an actual 'race', as although their usual physical appearence seems to be light skinned, fair haired and takes after midlander hyur in appearence (like Cid, Nero, Lucia etc), there are confirmed situations where there are pure-blooded Garleans with other appearences that resemble different races.

Specifically Nael was long suspected of being elezen (due to using elezen animations) and was confirmed in Second Coil to have an elezen apparence (specifically wildwood with fairer skin) but possessing the pure-blood Garlean third eye. Likewise Gaius was also in SB is revealed to be dark skinned and dark haired, and looks more like a highlander hyur than a midlander like 'regular' Garleans. Both possess the Garlean third-eye.

Nael probably gets a pass though given the Darnus family apparently having a lineage that dates back to the days of Ancient Allag, so their family tree probably got mixed up somewhere along the line, to say nothing of genetic manipulation. But I digress.

Garlean Hyur

Yeeeeeeeeeee

Not only is Lucia Garlean, but she's the sister of Livia, whom we killed at the end of Castrum Meridianum. Lucia doesn't hold it against us.

As for whether Hrothgar are "humans" like the other races, until informed otherwise I'm going to assume that yes, they are, and probably just as capable of interbreeding as any other human racial pairing. All player races are basically just variants on humans as we know them. Hrothgar are just a bit further along the "Fine, too" track than the Miqo'te are. :P

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...19/973/aa2.jpg

Maybe I'm completely off here but I thought the lore says that only the mother's race gets inherited. So a female Hyur and a male Hrothgar would still make a Hyur. It's only little things like pointy ears (Hilda) that can get inherited.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Hrothgar may be a grey area. XD
Until we have some lore that confirms or denies the existence of half-Hrothgar half-other-race offspring.
Though it could be theorised that's exactly what Miqote are.

Remember all the races are the result of the original race of the Amaurotine's world being fractured into reflections and the races being fractured along with it.
I don't know what that would make the Amaurotine's true form look like though, some kind of furry dragonoid alien looking species? XD

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Hrothgar are humanoids, but that's about it. lol And that's only because of the Hrothgar body largely resembling a buffed up human aside from the head/tail. They definitely fall on the furthest end of that spectrum though when compared to other FF XIV races.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Technically 'pure-blood Garlean' seems to be more a genetic trait than an actual 'race', as although their usual physical appearence seems to be light skinned, fair haired and takes after midlander hyur in appearence (like Cid, Nero, Lucia etc), there are confirmed situations where there are pure-blooded Garleans with other appearences that resemble different races.

Specifically Nael was long suspected of being elezen (due to using elezen animations) and was confirmed in Second Coil to have an elezen apparence (specifically wildwood with fairer skin) but possessing the pure-blood Garlean third eye. Likewise Gaius was also in SB is revealed to be dark skinned and dark haired, and looks more like a highlander hyur than a midlander like 'regular' Garleans. Both possess the Garlean third-eye.

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Nero, Nael, Lucia, Gaius, Maxima, and most other Garleans use elezen bodies with custom heads. Cid and Severa use midlander hyur bodies or at least the skeleton underneath. That's why Cid is so much shorter than Nero and Gaius when they're together. I'd still say Garleans are different enough to constitute their own race.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Maybe I'm completely off here but I thought the lore says that only the mother's race gets inherited. So a female Hyur and a male Hrothgar would still make a Hyur. It's only little things like pointy ears (Hilda) that can get inherited.

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This is fanon that is not true and is not in the game at all. I'm pretty sure it was made up by an RP forum and it keeps getting spread around and around to the point people think it's true. The reason for Hilda being a midlander with pointy ears is more to do with the fact that the devs didn't want to make a whole new body for her so they created a custom head with pointy ears and put it on top of a midlander body. Severa's mother is a hyur yet she has a third-eye and Arenvald does not.

According to Koji Fox, the races don't mix much due to cultural taboos and on top of that it seems that they don't seem to be very genetically compatible either. The only mix-races we know for sure exist are hyur+elezen and hyur+garlean. All of the midlander residents of Ishgard have a little elezen in them, then there's Hilda and the baby in Crystarium. And I'm still not convinced that highlander hyur aren't hyur+roegadyn. With all of those at least, the races are very similar-ish to each other and I believe there was an official mention that hyur and elezen have some historical relation to each other. Then there's the legendary yet unconfirmed story of an au ra and a hyur having a child that is missing some scales. Despite miqo'te NPCs being very promiscuous, there is nothing at all for us to go on for proof of hyur+miqo'te babies which tells me those races are incompatible of conceiving, let alone anything else less "human" than a miqo'te.

The only confirmed adult half-breeds we've seen in the game are Hilda (Midlander mother, Elezen father) and Arvenvald (Highlander mother, Garlean father). In both cases, their models are based on their mothers' race. Hilda has Elezen-ish ears, but Arenvald has no obvious Garlean traits. He mentions that his mother kept trying to cut his forehead open looking for a Garlean third eye, but he just has scars there under his facepaint.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

Maybe I'm completely off here but I thought the lore says that only the mother's race gets inherited. So a female Hyur and a male Hrothgar would still make a Hyur. It's only little things like pointy ears (Hilda) that can get inherited.

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Lore doesn't say that. It's just an inference since all the half breeds we've been shown have been like that.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Hrothgar may be a grey area. XD
Until we have some lore that confirms or denies the existence of half-Hrothgar half-other-race offspring.
Though it could be theorised that's exactly what Miqote are.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

You mean Miqote? /jk

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genius! i don't know why seraphor never thought of that

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Specifically Nael was long suspected of being elezen (due to using elezen animations) and was confirmed in Second Coil to have an elezen apparence (specifically wildwood with fairer skin) but possessing the pure-blood Garlean third eye. Likewise Gaius was also in SB is revealed to be dark skinned and dark haired, and looks more like a highlander hyur than a midlander like 'regular' Garleans. Both possess the Garlean third-eye.

Nael probably gets a pass though given the Darnus family apparently having a lineage that dates back to the days of Ancient Allag, so their family tree probably got mixed up somewhere along the line, to say nothing of genetic manipulation. But I digress.

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In the cutscenes when we see Eula/Nael in her original form and without her helmet on, I could swear she's got Hyur ears rather than Elezen. Am I misremembering? (I'm not in game to go check.)

Either way, the original people of Garlemald are largely descended from the refugees from the Ivalician city of Goug, after that so-called Clockwork City was destroyed and they resettled in northern Ilsabard. From what evidence we have, the people of Goug shared the Garlean handicap inasmuch as they were largely unable to manipulate aether (thus use any magic), hence Goug being a clockwork city of purely mechanical wonders.

So far as I know, the origin of the 'third-eye' that gives them echolocation-ish(?) spatial awareness has never been revealed; whether it's something they had when still living in Goug, or something developed over time in Ilsabard, or something done to them by the Ascians who had been manipulating them, or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

Lore doesn't say that. It's just an inference since all the half breeds we've been shown have been like that.

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I think it actually did get answered that way in a Koji Fox interview somewhere, specifically to address the fandom speculation about, uh... 'issues' entailed if a Roegadyn father and a Lalafellan mother had a kid.

If you do the Ruby Princess quests and deliveries it's also revealed that an Au Ra Ruby Princess in the past took a Hyur as a lover and that their offspring was nearly scale-less.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

In the cutscenes when we see Eula/Nael in her original form and without her helmet on, I could swear she's got Hyur ears rather than Elezen. Am I misremembering? (I'm not in game to go check.)

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Like I said earlier, the game files mostly show the Garleans as being elezens with a custom head. Eula/Nael and Maxima don't even have custom faces and instead have legit wildwood heads with a third eye and hyur ears. Gaius, Solus, and Nero are considered to be elezen according to the game files, but they have completely custom heads. Zenos and Varris are the only completely custom Garleans that have their own body.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

I think it actually did get answered that way in a Koji Fox interview somewhere, specifically to address the fandom speculation about, uh... 'issues' entailed if a Roegadyn father and a Lalafellan mother had a kid.

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The only interview I could find where Koji brought up hybrids, the whole "mother" thing wasn't mentioned. Unless someone else can find an interview or a blurb in the game or lore books where it says otherwise, that's fanon. I know it's a fantasy game, but it doesn't make any biological sense for the child of two races to look exactly like the mother's race but with a tiny bit from the dad anyway. SE wasn't going to make a whole separate body model just for Hilda when they can just give her pointy ears and call it a day. It's just as simple as that.

Funny enough, in the same interview, Koji describes Garleans as being a separate race from hyur. I saw a different interview with Banri Oda where he said the same.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Like I said earlier, the game files mostly show the Garleans as being elezens with a custom head. Eula/Nael and Maxima don't even have custom faces and instead have legit wildwood heads with a third eye and hyur ears. Gaius, Solus, and Nero are considered to be elezen according to the game files, but they have completely custom heads. Zenos and Varris are the only completely custom Garleans that have their own body.

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Yeah, it was more the "Nael is an elezen with a third-eye, so Garleans can be all the races just with a third-eye" implication that I was questioning. Garleans in general appear to be very tall, hence using elezen animations; I don't think that implies Nael was an elezen, nor that any others are.

Pureblood Garleans appear to pretty much entirely resemble Hyur, albeit with a much greater average height and with the echolocation-y third eye. (There are exceptions; I believe that Jenomis cen Lexentale and our beloved friend Cid use Hyur bodies and animation rigs, even though both are purebloods and have the third eye.)

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

The only interview I could find where Koji brought up hybrids, the whole "mother" thing wasn't mentioned. Unless someone else can find an interview or a blurb in the game or lore books where it says otherwise, that's fanon.

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I swear I remember when I asked for a source ages ago, someone linked me to a podcast or radio show or something that Koji Fox was on as a guest; I remember it being audio, because I remember my ADHD self being annoyed I had to listen to it rather than read an article.

But as I am presently sleep-deprived, caffeine-deprived, and stuck in Zoom Meeting Hell today (kill me), I am more than willing to admit I may be misremembering or blurring a memory of that lore point having a source that's actually the source of authority for some different lore point.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Funny enough, in the same interview, Koji describes Garleans as being a separate race from hyur. I saw a different interview with Banri Oda where he said the same.

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That I certainly believe.

But what I find myself wondering about is whether they were a separate race from the Sundering onwards, and Goug was just where they had congregated in that Era, since a mechnically-focused city was more friendly to them due to their lack of ability to manipulate aether. But if so, why do they seemingly have absolutely no presence in the history for literally any of the prior Astral and Umbral ages we've learned anything of, nor any hint of an equivalent race on the First? (I mean we even have evidence of the Namazu on the First, though only ancient Ronkan historical record.)

In essence, we have zero evidence of Garleans as a separate race outside of Garlemald, or prior to the founding of Garlemald, or on any other shard... at least, none that I can think of. Which I find curious, considering we have it for pretty much all the other races.

But any theories about that would definitely be wild speculation at best.

It's entirely possible that any Garleans-by-another-name on the First were lost in the Flood, just like the Namazu (and presumably any other races we didn't meet), but we have no evidence either way. Nobody reacts to Emet-Selch's third eye, but the few non-Scions who see him could've just assumed it was decorative.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Garleans were essentially created as a servant/patsy race for Ascians. I think a thing we take for granted is the Garlean inability to use aether, which doesn't make them "normal", because the fact that every other living being, including animals and plants, use aether in this universe(s) makes Garleans inability to do so an aberration and not mundane. The only other race that breaks the laws of nature so much are the Dragons, whose eyes are basically endless aether factories, which was explained by them essentially being aliens from a star with completely different rules.

Also, their lack of aether ability could be tied to (or just in addition to) the fact they can't naturally posses the echo, meaning that they could never hear Hydaelyn's auto-call and would never be wise to what Ascians are plotting. So we have a race that can't use aether (unlike Ascians who are suffused greatly with it), have to rely on magitek (which can be controlled and restricted by Garlean high command, which was for the most part Ascian-lead), and can't naturally gain the Echo (crippling them of a useful tool and keeping them in the dark of Ascian machinations).

I believe there might be lore somewhere that theorizes that Garleans may have been a technician race for the Allagan empire which, since we know how that got started, still lends credence to Ascian creation. There may have been a race similar to Garleans on The First, but since their lands were lost to the flood, it could be the perfect cover to surprise us of their true heritage. Seeing how there were no Allagan creations there (besides the Crystal Tower), it could mean there was also never any "Garlean race" there to begin with.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Like I said earlier, the game files mostly show the Garleans as being elezens with a custom head. Eula/Nael and Maxima don't even have custom faces and instead have legit wildwood heads with a third eye and hyur ears. Gaius, Solus, and Nero are considered to be elezen according to the game files, but they have completely custom heads. Zenos and Varris are the only completely custom Garleans that have their own body.

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Maxima has a custom face, as far as I can tell. Elezen don't look like he does.

It's possible that it's a "borrowed" face model from another race rather than made from scratch, but I can't recognise it.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

Yeah, it was more the "Nael is an elezen with a third-eye, so Garleans can be all the races just with a third-eye" implication that I was questioning. Garleans in general appear to be very tall, hence using elezen animations; I don't think that implies Nael was an elezen, nor that any others are.

Pureblood Garleans appear to pretty much entirely resemble Hyur, albeit with a much greater average height and with the echolocation-y third eye. (There are exceptions; I believe that Jenomis cen Lexentale and our beloved friend Cid use Hyur bodies and animation rigs, even though both are purebloods and have the third eye.)

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There are two elements to this.

At a world-building concept level, Garleans are a distinct Hyur-like race with the third eye.

At a game level, because there is no "Garlean NPC model", they appropriate both Hyur and Elezen models equally when building Garlean characters.

Garleans don't use Elezen animations because they're tall; they're tall because Elezen models were used to build the characters. It's just the head (including the ears) that is custom, and the standard Garlean armour is built to hide the lanky Elezen proportions. Compare Nero or Maxima's apparent build wearing their heavy armour to later in civilian clothes that are more directly Elezen-proportioned, just with some modification around the neck to hide where they merge.

I did a comparison a while back between Nero and my Elezen character wearing the same coat. You can see the coat model has been altered slightly to fit him.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Maxima has a custom face, as far as I can tell. Elezen don't look like he does.

It's possible that it's a "borrowed" face model from another race rather than made from scratch, but I can't recognise it.

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Ah, it does seem like a different face. He uses an elezen-only hairstyle and has the exact same facial hair as one of the faces so I always thought they just gave him an eye and different ears but I guess they did a little more work.

I wonder why some use midlander skeletons/bodies and some use elezen. Severa makes sense because of her history, even if they are retconning the "only pure-blood's get an eye" thing for some reason. But then there's Cid, Midas, Aulus, and Jenomis. It's awkward when seeing Cid share a scene with Nero and he's a few heads shorter than him and the other Garleans.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Ah, it does seem like a different face. He uses an elezen-only hairstyle and has the exact same facial hair as one of the faces so I always thought they just gave him an eye and different ears but I guess they did a little more work.

I wonder why some use midlander skeletons/bodies and some use elezen. Severa makes sense because of her history, even if they are retconning the "only pure-blood's get an eye" thing for some reason. But then there's Cid, Midas, Aulus, and Jenomis. It's awkward when seeing Cid share a scene with Nero and he's a few heads shorter than him and the other Garleans.

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My theory is that Garleans have at least 2 different clans. 1 clan is tall while the other clan is shorter. Kinda like Midlander vs Highlanders.

one of the yellow questlines in post 4.x infers that hyurs and miqo'te can successfully reproduce; the ex-garlean overseer of one of the little villages who was gonna run off and kill himself out of fear of being imprisoned or worse for his part in the garlean occupation. basically the catgirl loves him and one of them say something to the affect of once he's out of jail they're gonna get together and start a family

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Nero, Nael, Lucia, Gaius, Maxima, and most other Garleans use elezen bodies with custom heads. Cid and Severa use midlander hyur bodies or at least the skeleton underneath. That's why Cid is so much shorter than Nero and Gaius when they're together. I'd still say Garleans are different enough to constitute their own race.




This is fanon that is not true and is not in the game at all. I'm pretty sure it was made up by an RP forum and it keeps getting spread around and around to the point people think it's true. The reason for Hilda being a midlander with pointy ears is more to do with the fact that the devs didn't want to make a whole new body for her so they created a custom head with pointy ears and put it on top of a midlander body. Severa's mother is a hyur yet she has a third-eye and Arenvald does not.

According to Koji Fox, the races don't mix much due to cultural taboos and on top of that it seems that they don't seem to be very genetically compatible either. The only mix-races we know for sure exist are hyur+elezen and hyur+garlean. All of the midlander residents of Ishgard have a little elezen in them, then there's Hilda and the baby in Crystarium. And I'm still not convinced that highlander hyur aren't hyur+roegadyn. With all of those at least, the races are very similar-ish to each other and I believe there was an official mention that hyur and elezen have some historical relation to each other. Then there's the legendary yet unconfirmed story of an au ra and a hyur having a child that is missing some scales. Despite miqo'te NPCs being very promiscuous, there is nothing at all for us to go on for proof of hyur+miqo'te babies which tells me those races are incompatible of conceiving, let alone anything else less "human" than a miqo'te.

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Interesting. I has no idea!
One would think such information gets covered in one of the lore books. Just saying it's taboo is kind of a cop-out. It certainly doesn't seem like one whenever I happen to be in Limsa. xD

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

one of the yellow questlines in post 4.x infers that hyurs and miqo'te can successfully reproduce; the ex-garlean overseer of one of the little villages who was gonna run off and kill himself out of fear of being imprisoned or worse for his part in the garlean occupation. basically the catgirl loves him and one of them say something to the affect of once he's out of jail they're gonna get together and start a family

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All of the races can interbreed. The main reason they don't is cultural taboos. (And all of the extra work making half-breed character models.)

Question as it's on topic, but doesn't Fufucha of the Botanist guild have that 3rd eye thing? Or is that a customization option on lala's that I don't recall being a thing.

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Originally Posted by Zer0

Question as it's on topic, but doesn't Fufucha of the Botanist guild have that 3rd eye thing? Or is that a customization option on lala's that I don't recall being a thing.

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If you're talking about these then yes, it's an option available for Dunesfolk lalas.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...a47cd4c814.jpg

I could be misremembering here... but I could have sworn at one point in the Heavensward story she even shows us that she has the third eye. But that also might just be me assuming it was there because of the way she wears her hair and circlet to potentially cover it up.

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Originally Posted by Zer0

Question as it's on topic, but doesn't Fufucha of the Botanist guild have that 3rd eye thing? Or is that a customization option on lala's that I don't recall being a thing.

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Lalafell and Miqo'te both have options which vaguely resemble the third eye, but I believe they are all visibly gemstones or similar decoration affixed to the skin, a'la bindi in the real world.

In contrast, the Garlean third-eye is visibly a natural organ, as it emerges through the skin rather than being affixed to it. (I want to say that it's not bone but is still hard a'la keratin, but I don't have the encyclopedia with me to check if that's explicitly stated or not.)

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Originally Posted by wereotter

I could be misremembering here... but I could have sworn at one point in the Heavensward story she even shows us that she has the third eye. But that also might just be me assuming it was there because of the way she wears her hair and circlet to potentially cover it up.

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I think you're right, though won't swear to it; I am fairly sure I remember Lucia taking off the circlet to reveal her Garlean identity (by showing the third eye) in the cutscene when we were all ready to head off to Azys Lla, but it's been a While since I saw that cutscene so it might be memory fitting the storyline, rather than fitting the actual visuals. Either way, all the adult pureblood Garleans we know of that I can think of either visibly have the third eye or wear something (like Cid's goggles that are perpetually on his forehead, or Lucia's circlet) which would conceal it.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

I could be misremembering here... but I could have sworn at one point in the Heavensward story she even shows us that she has the third eye. But that also might just be me assuming it was there because of the way she wears her hair and circlet to potentially cover it up.

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She does. It's on the airship iin Sea of Clouds when she talked about how she came to server Aymeric. Her circlet is definitely there to hide the eye just as Cid hides his with his goggles.