Demystifying ultimate and savage

Aka stop pulling fake numbers out of nowhere. I'm sick and tired of people saying "less than 1% of the playerbase does ultimate" and that means its somehow "fine" that they moved ultimate into the next expansion. A lot more people than you think do ultimates and even more do savage, so lets look at the numbers so you stop spouting misinformation (which by the way does not matter. if someone is part of that "1%" who gets their entire reason for staying subbed delayed by more than a year, then yes, we have every right to be disappointed. i dont know why this "personally im fine so its fine" mentality is so widespread)

If you check in lalachievements for title and achievment rarities, youll see that the titles The Legend, the Perfect Legend, and the Ultimate Legend are owned by 6.8%, 8.6% and 8.9% of all players in their database. There of course is an overlap, but theres also the case of players who dont have more than 1 ultimate cleared; so the numbers for "players that have cleared ultimate at all" could range from as few as 8.9% to as much as 22.3%.

As for savage, 11.6% of players in lalachievement's database have cleared edens promise savage at least once, and 24.8% cleared edens verse savage at least once. Note that this ONLY counts the last fight of the tier; meaning that people who only do the first three fights are not counted in these numbers. The real number of people who do savage is in fact way higher. How much higher? Well, just to get a rough idea, if we go by the number of parses on FFlogs, Oracle of Darkness is only 11% of their parses* this tier.
* 81471 out of 684085 parses, on all jobs in all floors of savage over the past 2 weeks.

Now, lalachievments might not have the best sample size with only 133534 characters in their database, but it still disproves this myth that barely anyone does ultimate.

Okay, but what does it matter? Someone might argue that 8.9% of the playerbase is somehow still insignificant (its really not). And yet id like to remind you:

- The last-stage eureka relic with the HIGHEST obtention rate is Brunello Eureka, with 6.7%.

- The triple decker VII achievement (Obtain 190 unique Triple Triad cards.) has 7% obtention. The Mahjong achievement with the highest obtention rate (Tile and Error I) has a whopping 3.9% obtention rate.

- The Ocean Fisher achievement has 1.9 % obtention rate.

- Only 1.8 % of the playerbase has the morbol mount. Only 16.4 % of players even did enough masked carnival stages to get angels whisper in the first place.

Im only showing these numbers to demonstrate the following: If they really only pandered to "the majority", then the game would have nothing but dungeons, custom deliveries and treasure maps. FFXIV is a great game because it has a lot of niches for different kinds of tastes, so saying that "only X% of the playerbase does Y" is very disingenuous. So kindly, have more empathy for what in reality is around 10% of the playerbase. Clear rates for ultimate and savage vary between worlds and data center (with some japanese worlds having over 20% clear rates, and some in NA having less than 5%), however the fact remains that it is an order of magnitude above "less than 1%" of the playerbase who are upset about having pretty much nothing left to do till next expansion.

And before you say "the game has so much more to do than raidsss :)" We know. A lot of us already did all that stuff, or we simply dont enjoy it. I personally dont like doing fates or syrcus tower endlessly to get a relic weapon, and doing maps bores me, so i absolutely would not keep my sub running for 8 months until next expansion doing that.

A hugely significant chunk of ultimate clears are from run buyers. The actual number of legit, honest people clearing ultimate raids is far lower than the numbers suggest. Quite frankly, I think the people who are bitching and moaning the most about this are probably the run sellers who are losing an actual source of real income because of this, nobody else should care so much.

Also, all those low % things you mentioned are just single extreme achievements among the actual content they're attached to. For example, you can't judge how popular ocean fishing is just by how many people have the somewhat difficult to obtain Ocean Fisher title. You're making a false comparison there.

The fact is, they're not cancelling Ultimate, they're delaying it, and if something that makes up such an incredibly minor part of the game's overall content being delayed is enough to make you quit the game and riot, then you really need to look at why you're even playing. I love fishing with all my heart and soul, but if they announced they were delaying the Ultimate-equivalent of fishing - the 6 legendary fish of 5.5 - until 6.1, I'd be a little sad but I'd get over it, cuz there is TONS more fishing content out there, just like there is tons more raiding content out there besides just Ultimate. If the legendary fish which only come around once an expansion were literally the only reason I played the game, I'd really have to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask myself if this game is something I should be caring about so much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Espritduo

Also, all those low % things you mentioned are just single extreme achievements among the actual content they're attached to. For example, you can't judge how popular ocean fishing is just by how many people have the somewhat difficult to obtain Ocean Fisher title. You're making a false comparison there.

---

Works both ways.
Not everyone who does ultimate has the clear achievment. Ultimate takes a shitton of time to prog and even longer if you either have to take a break for a bit of can't do it regulary because it throws you back. Same for savage. It's not big news that many more casual statics get stuck at the 3rd/ 4th boss or that people quit for whatever reason, they need to refill their ranks and are thrown back etc.; they wouldn't count towards this statistic, but they're invested in savage all the same. And the number of people clearing the tier is signifcantly smaller than the number of people participating but not clearing every boss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Espritduo

A hugely significant chunk of ultimate clears are from run buyers. The actual number of legit, honest people clearing ultimate raids is far lower than the numbers suggest. Quite frankly, I think the people who are bitching and moaning the most about this are probably the run sellers who are losing an actual source of real income because of this, nobody else should care so much.

---

You got a source for this? Or are you just pulling the numbers out of thin air a la “less than 1% of people do Ultimate so it s fine they delayed it” posters? The vast majority of players lamenting the loss of the 5.51 Ultimate are not run sellers, and just people that enjoy the content. There aren’t that many groups that actually sell runs compared to how many groups actually venture into the content. The latter is definitely the vast majority of Ultimate clearers.


Personally, I’m sick of posters here telling raiders to “just get over it” when a lot of these same posters are the ones that were whipping out their pitchforks when the developers announced they were only doing one dungeon per patch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Espritduo

The fact is, they're not cancelling Ultimate, they're delaying it, and if something that makes up such an incredibly minor part of the game's overall content being delayed is enough to make you quit the game and riot, then you really need to look at why you're even playing. I love fishing with all my heart and soul, but if they announced they were delaying the Ultimate-equivalent of fishing - the 6 legendary fish of 5.5 - until 6.1, I'd be a little sad but I'd get over it, cuz there is TONS more fishing content out there, just like there is tons more raiding content out there besides just Ultimate. If the legendary fish which only come around once an expansion were literally the only reason I played the game, I'd really have to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask myself if this game is something I should be caring about so much.

---

Unless they announce three Ultimates next expansion, they're cancelling one.

As for the tons of raid content. There really isn't. Hence the complaints. We have Savage and Ultimate as our primary pieces of content. EX Primals exist, but are tailored towards casual players looking to get their feet wet in the raid scene. They aren't typically that appealing to long time raiders since, well... they're extremely forgiving. In the upcoming patch, we have Diamond Weapon now as the only "raid" content unless they release a second Delubrum Savage equivalent. So where exactly is this "tons of raid content" because I wouldn't exactly call a single boss fight that will be dead within an hour long term content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Unless they announce three Ultimates next expansion, they're cancelling one.

---

Technically no.
If the next expac has two raids, it's because one of 6.x's 3 ultimates got pushed back to 7.x, which in turn is probably pushing one back to 8.x.
And this is all assuming that they don't plan on dropping Ults to 1 per expac like how we've been getting less dungeons, etc. too.
But just because something is getting pushed back doesn't mean something else is getting axed to make room for it.

While I agree there isn’t enough ‘harder’ battle content in the game and it’s annoying for Ultimate raiders that it’s been canned this time around, but ultimately (

The post failed for some reason and I can’t remember what I said, so disregard lol

While it certain sucks that there is no ultimate this expansion. I honestly rather get a fleshed out fight that I can look forward to progging instead of just watching people meme on it like what people did to TEA. As far as I know. Most ultimate raiders I know are a little disappointed by the news but are also glad that they can play other games as well as have a estimated time in which the ultimate gets released. As opposed to it just being dropped on people out of the blue.
This will allow those that record the races to plan their life around it as well as the raiders to get ready.

hmmmz ok then I will revise my prior statement that triggered you

I don't care what 6.8%, 8.6% and 8.9% want if it means delaying content for the rest of the player base. I can apply your logic EASILY to pvp and tell them to prioritize that over Ultimate's since that player base is far larger also. This same logic applies to people who do deep dungeons that got screwed in Shadowbringers also and told to wait until the next expansion.

I do not like it is getting delayed but there is clearly a major reason and I assume it is based around literally re balancing every number in the MMO for the stat squish.

I am not happy they ignored almost constant request for a Mythic+ scaling difficulty that is far more repeatable then Ultimate content and has been requested far more. It is literally the only thing I enjoyed in WoW.

It's fair to be disappointed at its delay. And maybe they should have announced its delay sooner to give people more of a heads up.

But honestly, it makes sense to be fairly early on the chopping block.

There's no real story tied to ultimates. Where as if you cancelled the end of Bozja or the last Nier raid etc that would affect things on the story level.

They're separate 'bonus' content on top of savage and not as clearly established a part of the release schedule.

Sure maybe more people do it than the '1%' exaggeration, but it's still comparatively few compared to more accessible content.

It's not really a shock to me at all that if something had to give, Ultimate would be high on the list. That doesn't mean it doesn't suck for people looking forward to it, but it's understandable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by QooEr

Aka stop pulling fake numbers out of nowhere. I'm sick and tired of people saying "less than 1% of the playerbase does ultimate" and that means its somehow "fine" that they moved ultimate into the next expansion. A lot more people than you think do ultimates and even more do savage, so lets look at the numbers so you stop spouting misinformation (which by the way does not matter. if someone is part of that "1%" who gets their entire reason for staying subbed delayed by more than a year, then yes, we have every right to be disappointed. i dont know why this "personally im fine so its fine" mentality is so widespread)

If you check in lalachievements for title and achievment rarities, youll see that the titles The Legend, the Perfect Legend, and the Ultimate Legend are owned by 6.8%, 8.6% and 8.9% of all players in their database. There of course is an overlap, but theres also the case of players who dont have more than 1 ultimate cleared; so the numbers for "players that have cleared ultimate at all" could range from as few as 8.9% to as much as 22.3%.

As for savage, 11.6% of players in lalachievement's database have cleared edens promise savage at least once, and 24.8% cleared edens verse savage at least once. Note that this ONLY counts the last fight of the tier; meaning that people who only do the first three fights are not counted in these numbers. The real number of people who do savage is in fact way higher. How much higher? Well, just to get a rough idea, if we go by the number of parses on FFlogs, Oracle of Darkness is only 11% of their parses* this tier.

And before you say "the game has so much more to do than raidsss :)" We know. A lot of us already did all that stuff, or we simply dont enjoy it. I personally dont like doing fates or syrcus tower endlessly to get a relic weapon, and doing maps bores me, so i absolutely would not keep my sub running for 8 months until next expansion doing that.

---

Sounds tough. I'm sorry I guess.