Which Ascians are left? (Spoilers up to 5.4 obviously)

If 6.0 is going to be the end of the current storyline, then besides Fandaniel we're going to need to wrap up the other remaining Ascians too, whether through defeat, reconciliation, or some other option. Because as long as Ascians are around they're going to be trying to revive Zodiark, so that storyline won't end until they're all either gone or become good guys like Loghrif did.

Halmarut
Deudalaphon
Altima
Pashtarot

Are all four of these still around? Even if they're all part of Fandaniel's group and will be dealt with in 6.0, that's kind of a lot to fight over the course of one patch. Personally I hope that we'll actually be working with them to stop Fandaniel and the Final Days since the Ancients didn't want that either, but that would still end with four Ascians still being around after 6.0 is over.

Not to mention if Lahabrea is coming back then Igeyorhm might too. Though we'll need to see the context for Lahabrea's appearance to be sure.

Considering how Altima turned against her creators in FF12, I do suspect Altima will either be one of Fandango's group, or basically have just decided to live their own life with the knowledge and powers that came from being risen to the post (a form of betrayal).

I believe Altima and Pashtarot have cameod in ARR, so we know they are Active Ascians. Halmarut and Deudalaphon have not been mentioned as far as I know.

Getting all 5 in EW seems rushed but at the same time I wouldn't like the Hydaelin/Zodiark story to finish with those loose threads...

Anonymoose did a thread a while ago stating each Ascian overlord and their present known status, and whereabouts, most recently updated for patch 5.4, so it's up to date, which can be found here.

Basically though, to answer your question, their current whereabouts are unknown - it's possible they're each on the four remaining Shards not yet rejoined, but nothing is known for certain.

And consider we dont know how they handle it, they might have more then one awoken, just in other shards - or already made some of the killed ones anew and just sent them away...

Don't forget about Schrodinger's Emmerololth.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Anonymoose did a thread a while ago stating each Ascian overlord and their present known status, and whereabouts, most recently updated for patch 5.4, so it's up to date, so it can be here.

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I also keep this short-hand thing going for when I need a quick reference, lol.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...00/unknown.png

Might need to add a WTF for Lahahahahahahahaha in 6.0. Also is Elidibus dead-dead or is his soul just locked in the tower?

From what I believe, the only completely destroyed Ascians are Lahabrea, Elidibus, and Emet-Selch. They were the ones who weren't fragmented.

If I understood well, the other Ascians are the fragmented ones, so lets say: When Igeyorhm was destroyed in 3.0, we actually destroyed one of her fragments, so the Ascians maybe selected another of Igeyorhm's versions to put her in the seat. The same with the rest (so there would still be a Nabriales, Emmerololth, etc... around there). But then, if 2.5's Nabriales was the last living one of his 13 shards, then yup, Nabriales is no more. No one is in his seat anymore.

At least, I understand that.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

Might need to add a WTF for Lahahahahahahahaha in 6.0.

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Ahaha, I'm waiting until we see what's actually up when we get there.
Otherwise I'd have put WTF on him being on the 5.4 artwork. >_>

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Originally Posted by Veloran

Also is Elidibus dead-dead or is his soul just locked in the tower?

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I can look into that if you can tell me why anyone thinks anything other than "G'raha discharged all of the energy prsently in the Crystal Tower directly into Elidibus's face and destroyed him" happened. I can't see any other interpretation but I have been wrong before, lol.

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Journal
Harnessing the Crystal Tower's vast reservoir of energy, he strips the primal of his power and entraps his scattered essence. Before the Ascian fades into oblivion, however, you choose to restore his lost memories to him, granting him a semblance of peace at the last.

Die schier unendliche Energie des Kristallturms entfesselnd, beraubt er den Ascian seiner Unsterblichkeit und bannt dessen Essenz.

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EDIT
It looks like Japanese uses the characters 塔に封じ (to seal within the tower) which might explain some of the ambiguous verbs and confusion among fans. I can't imagine that the writers want to leave Elidibus on the table so if he's still intact in the tower, one wonders how they intend to go back to the First, let him out, and finish him off. That was the whole issue with leaving the Eyes of Nidhogg in the wind - Lahabrea was still in them, unconfirmed to be truly defeated.

Going by the cutscene, what I see is the Crystal Exarch using the energy-absorbtion powers of the Crystal Tower to bind Elidibus in place and absorb a great deal of the power he'd accumulated (white auracite), then discharge everything the tower had directly into his face (blade of Light) to shear his essence asunder. Visually, we see the luminous aether flowing outwards, and then his "pyreflies" scatter and float away. And then right in that moment of clarity, the tower eats them, which is probably what's confusing everyone. Was what the tower ate still him or just his un-re-assemblable aetherial LEGOs?

I guess it's on Square Enix to help clear that up, huh? lol

If I'm wrong and "he" is still in there, I would speculate that it's for the conclusion of Zodiark somehow, but how?
So I'm leaning towards, "It's an ambiguous scene due to the art choices but he dead."

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Don't forget about Schrodinger's Emmerololth.

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*Chef's Kiss*

Lmao, man, this has me in stitches.

I might be out of the loop here but did we ever learn whoch of these Ascians "Travanchet" was ? Or did I miss a whole plot line entirely ? My memory is that he was the one giving the magic trumpet to Mide in the Alexander storyline (magic trumpet tha the stole from Yshtola I think ?)


For the Pandaemonium raids I don't really see Laha coming back, but rather something like us entering and Ascian facility / tech / evil place on the moon that used to be under Lahabrea's control. And of course it won't go well and we will have to do something

I think Travanchet was just a lower-ranked black mask Ascian, i.e a random person with the Echo who they uplifted as a minion, and not one of the Convocation.

All indications are that from the 2.0 worldview, in 1.0 "The Reaper" was Lahabrea and everyone else was a black-mask risen by Lahabrea. (So far.) So the others as we see them (Travanchet, Corguevais, and whoever was working in Gridania, which I believe to be Dunstan but they won't say that because he's a hero of the Calamity now, but you could still say that if you just claim the kagura cured him, or maybe I'm just wrong) were black-masks wearing disguise corpses.

Travanchet specifically, though, was confirmed by Koji to be a black-mask. Travanchet isn't even the Ascian's name, it was the dead Elezen's real name. Koji wouldn't confirm the reaper was Lahabrea that day, probably because they were still planning to use it in the end of 3.0, which was upcoming at the time.

Lahabrea as the great scientist he is, he could have create clones (and those from Emet-Selch) or illusions of himself in his secret base, I don't know.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Travanchet specifically, though, was confirmed by Koji to be a black-mask. Travanchet isn't even the Ascian's name, it was the dead Elezen's real name.

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That's disappointing.
I thought he'd be more important than that (i.e. being a red-mask), considering he was present back in 1.0 and featured in a cameo flashback for the Alexander raid series.

Oh well...

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

Lahabrea as the great scientist he is, he could have create clones (and those from Emet-Selch) or illusions of himself in his secret base, I don't know.

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Hmm, ya know... what if he did clone himself, just not his body but his soul? Wouldn't that be kinda like the Resonance?

Are the other ascians beside Fandaniel worth worrying about tho ?
Many may bein the same situation as Gaia - they "respawned" but since all of the unsundered are gone, who knows if they have their memories or are living their lives normally, only caring for coffee biscuits ?

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Originally Posted by Damascar

Are the other ascians beside Fandaniel worth worrying about tho ?
Many may bein the same situation as Gaia - they "respawned" but since all of the unsundered are gone, who knows if they have their memories or are living their lives normally, only caring for coffee biscuits ?

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Yes the are worth worrying about.

The Ascians associated with Gaia were the ones defeated by Ardbert. But there was a cutscene in ARR that shows the whole group, so minus the ones we've defeated and the ones defeated by Ardbert and Fandaniel, the rest are MIA. All of which can have different motives and potential avenues to complicate the story.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

Yes the are worth worrying about.

The Ascians associated with Gaia were the ones defeated by Ardbert. But there was a cutscene in ARR that shows the whole group, so minus the ones we've defeated and the ones defeated by Ardbert and Fandaniel, the rest are MIA. All of which can have different motives and potential avenues to complicate the story.

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I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of them (Altima maybe?) just didn't bother with the whole thing and decided to live out a comfortable life elsewhere. With their powers, they could easily make by as court magicians, seers, shamans, etc. They'd be set for life if they found the right people willing to accept them.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of them (Altima maybe?) just didn't bother with the whole thing and decided to live out a comfortable life elsewhere. With their powers, they could easily make by as court magicians, seers, shamans, etc. They'd be set for life if they found the right people willing to accept them.

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Well, I'm not sure I'd guess that level of detail, but I'd assume the Ascians will continue to be a wild cards of the story, even when a new threat presents itself in the post 6.0 story.

I think almost any of them could still be at large in some form. Even completely dead Emet-Selch still exists in enough of a coherent form in the lifestream for us to summon to rescue us during the Seat of Sacrifice. Any of the sundered could be raised up and replaced even as they were killed during the game. The only ones truly unlikely to have been are Mitron and Lohgrif, but there could be a new Nabriales, Igeyorhm, or Emmerloloth. Some form of Elidibus could still exist within Zodiark or sealed in the Crystal Tower, and something something Lahabrea Pandaemonium. And who knows, maybe we can figure out how to raise up new versions ourselves?

Looking back at the masks on Gaius' belt, it's generally acknowledged that one looks like a lion is possibly Fandaniel. Presumably Gaius could only kill the mortal body they were inhabiting and didn't possess some equivalent to white auracite. Was the other mask ever identified? I was looking at it the other day and noticed that the shape of the eyes look like libra scales, so could that be Halmarut's?

They may be one other shards, because the question we should ask is: Will the End of Days be considered a Calamity. If it does that answers where the remaining Ascians are currently, on a Shard, besides the first.

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Originally Posted by Nightsword

They may be one other shards, because the question we should ask is: Will the End of Days be considered a Calamity. If it does that answers where the remaining Ascians are currently, on a Shard, besides the first.

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It could be, but I doubt it. Setting up a proper Calamity requires preparation both on the Source and on whatever Shard is about to be Rejoined - and Fandaniel has more or less implied that he's working on his own agenda, now, rather than the Ascians'. If Fandaniel wants to just destroy everything and everyone, he probably doesn't care much about whether a Rejoining happens or not. I suppose another Ascian could independently see what he's doing and decide to take advantage of it - but that's an awfully short amount of time to prep a Shard.

I've been wondering about Emmerelolth and the 2 extras and who the red masks on gaius' belt could be

First Gaius- there's two overlord masks and two unknown extras. Assuming he destroyed them properly, they could very well be our extras and the writers eliminated them offscreen. If they weren't the extras, then they will have been some of the ones we've yet to confront whether they were slain or merely incapacitated pending revival

Emmerololth- Given how Ascians restore their sundered to office, is it not possible for more than one of the sundered to be around? An example, we know the fragment of Mitron got stuck as Eden. So the unsundered uplift another shard of Mitron. If Mitron then fled to the chrysalis instead of sticking around for the last leg of eden, there'd be then two of him in play.

Extras- This may be a long shot, but Venat and possibly the Diplomatic ancient one could be one of them. Looking back at the Anyder cutscenes, there's three points that stuck out to me
1. Venat explicitly states that her form as hydaelyn will be her choosing and she was the only choice were she to be strong enough to bind Zodiark. Thus it stands to reason she could be out there like Elidibus
2. Hydaelyn had two purposes. We have only seen the first which is to bind Zodiark The second was to do something to actually stop the final days for good, as the laws Zodiark weaved according to the Diplomatic Ancient One "Serve only to forestall our doom" IE it delayed the end rather than prevented it.
3. The entire meetings make a point of how the factions disagreed on how to save their world, but the DAO at least misses Venat a lot and understands what they are trying to do. It is very possible that Hydaelyn was only supposed to bind Zodiark, not split him into pieces. Thus one or two members of Hydaelyn's faction could be working with the Zodiark faction in order to stop the end of days. Given the final days is explicitly restarting and Zodiark is still in pieces and Hydaelyn was considerably weakened atm, then the two factions working together so there's at least one Elder primal able to keep a lid on the final days is better than none.

Regarding the possibility of Fandaniel bringing about a calamity, I can't help but wonder. What if the reason the Ascians went to such pains to set up the various reflections for the Rejoining was so they could control which world in particular was rejoined? If that was the case, then it's not unlikely that Fancy Dan's plan would cause a Rejoining, but without controlling for which reflection is rejoined. Or perhaps the devastation wrought by Final Days 2: Chaotic Boogaloo could result in multiple—or even all—remaining reflections being rejoined at the same time.

Heck, maybe he wants to rejoin the Thirteenth. Xande 2.0 wanted to open a permanent gateway between the World of Darkness and the Source so the voidsent could destroy everything. Maybe that was Fandaniel's doing, and it's the reason Elidibus had to keep him on a tight leash, and subsequently why he's happy the Unsundered are gone.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

It could be, but I doubt it. Setting up a proper Calamity requires preparation both on the Source and on whatever Shard is about to be Rejoined - and Fandaniel has more or less implied that he's working on his own agenda, now, rather than the Ascians'. If Fandaniel wants to just destroy everything and everyone, he probably doesn't care much about whether a Rejoining happens or not. I suppose another Ascian could independently see what he's doing and decide to take advantage of it - but that's an awfully short amount of time to prep a Shard.

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Fandaniel's agenda is still a secret, this was confirmed at the announcement showcase. It's pretty obvious destroying everyone is either a front or a small part of his plan. He's been giving off betrayal vibes (he walking around in Asahi sas Brutus's body). Furthermore, as this thread has pointed out numerous times, the other unsundered Ascians are MIA and could be on the remaining shards setting up calamities. Lastly, the first moment Fandaniel walked into the story he promised Zenos access to Zodiark.

There is no reason to think that rejoinings/calamities are off the table.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

There is no reason to think that rejoinings/calamities are off the table.

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At no point did I say they were.

The only evidence we have now (Fandaniel's speech), however, points to Fandaniel being an omnicidal maniac with no other goals. It's possible there's something deeper - in fact, I will be very disappointed with the writers if there is not - but anything else is pure speculation, with nothing in-game to support anything over anything else.

The question was asked whether Fandaniel is setting up for a Rejoining. My answer was that it's possible, but the evidence we have currently is against it. That's all.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

The only evidence we have now (Fandaniel's speech), however, points to Fandaniel being an omnicidal maniac with no other goals. It's possible there's something deeper - in fact, I will be very disappointed with the writers if there is not - but anything else is pure speculation, with nothing in-game to support anything over anything else.

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To be honest, I would probably be at least a little disappointed if Fandaniel's "true goals" (as hinted in the Endwalker reveal showcase) was something deep and meaningful and had absolutely nothing to do with his current declaration of wanting to kill everything and everyone.

Mainly because it would be kind of eye-rollingly exasperating if the reason he did all that was entirely because he had an overblown sense of drama and wanted to troll a reaction.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

but that's an awfully short amount of time to prep a Shard.

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Considering the time distortion between shards, an Ascian on one learning about what's going on in the Source could in theory have an infinite amount of time to prepare it to be rejoined.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

To be honest, I would probably be at least a little disappointed if Fandaniel's "true goals" (as hinted in the Endwalker reveal showcase) was something deep and meaningful and had absolutely nothing to do with his current declaration of wanting to kill everything and everyone.

Mainly because it would be kind of eye-rollingly exasperating if the reason he did all that was entirely because he had an overblown sense of drama and wanted to troll a reaction.

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If played right it could be an interesting twist if it was theatrics but with a point, sleight of hand to distract us from whatever his actual motivation is.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

Regarding the possibility of Fandaniel bringing about a calamity, I can't help but wonder. What if the reason the Ascians went to such pains to set up the various reflections for the Rejoining was so they could control which world in particular was rejoined? If that was the case, then it's not unlikely that Fancy Dan's plan would cause a Rejoining, but without controlling for which reflection is rejoined. Or perhaps the devastation wrought by Final Days 2: Chaotic Boogaloo could result in multiple—or even all—remaining reflections being rejoined at the same time.

Heck, maybe he wants to rejoin the Thirteenth. Xande 2.0 wanted to open a permanent gateway between the World of Darkness and the Source so the voidsent could destroy everything. Maybe that was Fandaniel's doing, and it's the reason Elidibus had to keep him on a tight leash, and subsequently why he's happy the Unsundered are gone.

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I pondered the similarities between Fandaniel and Xande earlier today, even wondering if he was inhabiting Xande the whole time and was kept sealed away so he wouldn't ruin the unsundered's plans. Until we freed him by "killing" him.

had a thought: fandaniel's motivation of killing everyone could be his true goal including whatever is on the moon and zodiark/hydaelyn

so it will appear to be a sbuversion at first with zenos and zodiark, we win ofc, then it turns out nope- he just wanted everything to burn after all and his death was the beginning of plan b and fandaniel wanted zodiark gone too so that his death was permanent

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

If played right it could be an interesting twist if it was theatrics but with a point, sleight of hand to distract us from whatever his actual motivation is.

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I think no matter how well it is written / brought up, it would still feel underwhelming.
They did it quite well with Emet-Selch, and in comparison I felt Elidibus' closure was so bland (lathough we have known him for longer than Emet). They did a similar "redemption arc" for both Fordola and Yotsuyu in Stormblood's patches, and it worked well enough.
We are starting to see this for Gaius too with Werlyt.
There is a bit of that in the end of the Eden storyline...
You see my point.

Re-introducing a new villain with some "sad" background is starting to get a bit to repetitive in my opinion.
I'm not convinced by Fandaniel at all as of today, but I'd rather see him going deeper and deeper in cruel non-sense drama rather than seeing him get emotional about being bullied in his past once we defeat him thanks to the power of friendship.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

I think no matter how well it is written / brought up, it would still feel underwhelming.
They did it quite well with Emet-Selch, and in comparison I felt Elidibus' closure was so bland (lathough we have known him for longer than Emet). They did a similar "redemption arc" for both Fordola and Yotsuyu in Stormblood's patches, and it worked well enough.
We are starting to see this for Gaius too with Werlyt.
There is a bit of that in the end of the Eden storyline...
You see my point.

Re-introducing a new villain with some "sad" background is starting to get a bit to repetitive in my opinion.
I'm not convinced by Fandaniel at all as of today, but I'd rather see him going deeper and deeper in cruel non-sense drama rather than seeing him get emotional about being bullied in his past once we defeat him thanks to the power of friendship.

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I have a feeling his nihilism may be similar to Kuja's from FF9. Perhaps he has a disease that will kill him, and he'd rather everybody go with him than die alone. But in case he is defeated, he has a second plan in place that leads to the climax of 6.0 before the final battle, something that forces us to have to rush to save the world. Considering we're dealing with the moon...perhaps a Lunar Cry incident?

As far as I know, Elidibus, Emmerololth (possibly), Emet-Selch, Nabriales, Mitron and Igeyorhm are confirmed dead. Loghrif technically reincarnated, so she's off the table, but not 'dead', in a sense. Deudalaphon, Pashtarot, Venat, Altima, and Halmarut are the Ascians we don't know about, and assuming the Shadowhunter eliminated two of those (possibly Halmarut and Deudalaphon), that'd leave 3.

As for Lahabrea, I suspect the 6.0 raid series will be us taking care of the remaining Ascians, and I'm going to assume Lahabrea's dead and gone, given what Fandaniel's already said,

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Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

As far as I know, Elidibus, Emmerololth (possibly), Emet-Selch, Nabriales, Mitron and Igeyorhm are confirmed dead. Loghrif technically reincarnated, so she's off the table, but not 'dead', in a sense. Deudalaphon, Pashtarot, Venat, Altima, and Halmarut are the Ascians we don't know about, and assuming the Shadowhunter eliminated two of those (possibly Halmarut and Deudalaphon), that'd leave 3.

As for Lahabrea, I suspect the 6.0 raid series will be us taking care of the remaining Ascians, and I'm going to assume Lahabrea's dead and gone, given what Fandaniel's already said,

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Isn't the common theory that one of the Ascians Shadowhunter Gaius 'killed' was (a) Fandaniel because of one of the red masks having a lion motif?

It occurs to me that, assuming we include the seemingly alive Emmerololth and exclude Fandaniel who's tied up in the MSQ, we'll have five remaining Ascians in Endwalker - And there will also be five role quests this expansion.

Coincidence? I think probably!

What if Travanchet turns out to be one of the 14?

There is so little known about Travanchet that he's almost definetely considered now just a black masked Ascian (in other words, one of the low-ranked 'grunt' Ascians) and not a former member of the Convocation of Fourteen - his sole appearence back in 1.0 he didn't even wear a robe or mask and was getting around fully in the identity of an elezen pirate that was clearly his physical host, so really 'Travanchet' wasn't even his real (Ascian) name (the name definetely sounds elezen).

Given what we now know about the black masked Ascians, the real elezen Travanchet was almost definetely long dead, and that his Ascian parasite merely took the pirate's corpse as his latest body, adopting the corpse's former name as a cover (we only knew that he even was an Ascian in the first place was because he lacked a shadow in 1.0, and his appearence on screen was accompanied by the Ascian theme Without Shadow.).

Who Travanchet the Ascian really was back in Amaurot I don't think we'll ever know, given that as I recall Yoshi basically at one time stated he was no longer even canon at a Fanfest - until Travanchet was named-dropped during the Alexander quests, so your malmage may vary on that one...