Discipline hand/land isn't fun - huge time sink

Hand/Land is huge time sinks. Often I have to choose what I'm doing for day of game play. Either dungeon raid, high-end raid, gathering, crafting etc.

I understand the economics of the world argument, but I'm not working a real job in my entertainment. Its a game, not sadistic torture.

Crafting is extremely unbalance even against land gathering. It is nearly impossible to get crafting materia without wasting materials to just focus on materia.
In gathering while slow, I'm get tons of craft material, I also get alot of materia. I'm crafting I lose tons of materials, while getting miniscule amounts of materia.
Yet, materia purchase from npc are the same for both jobs.

This isn't a discussion about materia, but time.
Gathering I have to run each spot and then hit it a few time to gather 5-20 items. Crafting is a bunch of actions to craft singlenitems. I was happy squarenix include 3/craft items, still need more

The firmanet reminds me how much I hate this activity., not to mention the token requirement for those special b item's

Don't like it? Don't do it. simple as that. What is there that you think is "forcing" you to do it?

Like DrWho said, if you don't enjoy crafting and gathering then don't do them. There's plenty of other content in the game to enjoy and outside of doing MSQ to a small degree, none of it is mandatory. You could be getting rich doing treasure map then buying the items obtained through crafting off the MB instead.

You're causing your own problem if you're trying to force yourself to do something you don't enjoy.

The don't do it argument is silly. If out of 100 people play a game mechanics and only 10% of players enjoy then, its pointless.
All aspects should be fun, for everyone. I'm not talking high-end challenges.
As a battle class you can pick up the content and not sacrifice much to play it. Waht with duty finder and whatnot. Gear isn't even that hard to get.
Gathering and crafting is super boring. Gardening them same.
If you think squareenix design the game for fun first, and time sinks next...wel that your opinion. To me squareenix uses psychological addictions, similar to gambling to keep you playing without the evil of EA straight buy luck boxes, but to keep you playing months and paying that monthly fee.

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Originally Posted by Covenant

The don't do it argument is silly. If out of 100 people play a game mechanics and only 10% of players enjoy then, its pointless.

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And yet... less than 10% of 14's players play mahjong, yet SQEX has updated that a number of times in ShB alone.
Ultimate raids are famously made for only about 1-5% of the playerbase.
SQEX is totally ok with providing niche content.

ok i tried, go ahead and enjoy your strawman argument.

I levelled my crafters / gatherers mostly using GC turn ins and levequests where I bought the items instead of crafting it. I went several patches without really crafting and neglected my gear. I bought the gear and Materia the day before the last patch which brought out Exarchic gear. Couldn't be bothered crafting it and no I did not do expensive melds.

When the patch dropped I gathered for a few hours and then started crafting in between gathering. By the end of the following day I had made over 100 million Gil net profit, with an initial investment of less than 5 million Gil. I then put down my tools and haven't really crafted since.

I wouldn't call it pointless when the return on time investment can be huge. It doesn't even have to take that long to get a good return, just good planning ahead of patches. Each to their own I guess. I'm now back to levelling a new DoM and doing *sigh Bozjan relics.

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Originally Posted by Covenant

All aspects should be fun, for everyone. I'm not talking high-end challenges.

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Crafting is fun. Because it's fun for me, it's automatically fun for you.

Can you now understand why what you want is unrealistic? Not everyone finds the same things fun. It's up to us as individuals to seek out what is fun to us instead of expecting everything to be changed to suit what we want.

If you find crafting, gathering and gardening super boring then don't do them. They aren't content designed to be what you want. Go do things that don't bore you instead.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

And yet... less than 10% of 14's players play mahjong, yet SQEX has updated that a number of times in ShB alone.
Ultimate raids are famously made for only about 1-5% of the playerbase.
SQEX is totally ok with providing niche content.

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10% is actually a pretty high adoption figure for a feature. Which might sound counter-intuitive.
I'm surprised mahjong is played that much.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

10% is actually a pretty high adoption figure for a feature. Which might sound counter-intuitive.
I'm surprised mahjong is played that much.

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You underestimate how much people in Japan love playing mahjong.

I enjoy gathering and crafting. You do not have to.

I don't do end game rading. I will never call for it to be abandoned by squenix.

Welcome to JRPGs.

"Dear Square Enix, please give me a single button I push that gives me infinite money, and break your entire game to do it. Thanks."

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Originally Posted by Covenant

All aspects should be fun, for everyone.

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In a single player game, yes. In an MMO.... good luck with that. lol

I don’t find crafting/gathering fun to do either, but I’ve found motivation through house decorating. Because I know I want some item for my apt, I’m more willing to go through the effort of crafting it. At least then I feel like it’s not a complete waste of my time. I even hold off buying furniture form the market board even if I can afford it, just to not lose the will to craft. XD

Try to approach it in the same manner? Find a reason to craft/gather. Otherwise, no need to do it at all if you genuinely hate it in all aspects.

sorry OP it sounds like you have a specific idea of what constitutes end-game content for MMOs, probably born from specific other MMOs, and you're resistant to the idea that crafting or gathering can itself be an end-game activity, but at the end of the day this game is more amenable to the idea that people play for reasons outside 5 minute parsing sessions than world of warcrimes ever was

For the HQ stuff craft, the ratio of crafting time and profit has become so terrible, that it is more profitable to buy them.

Because crafting has become accessible to everyone, thanks SE for the casualisation.

I like to put my mind into autopilot after a long day of work and just gather while listening to a podcast.

I agree it is a huge time (and potential money) sink, but It's actually pretty easy once I started looking at it from another angle. I started leveling my crafter classes almost a year ago. I started CUL, ARM and BSM all at once. I quickly got myself into a rut with buying stuff on the MB and stuff and draining my bank account. I completely gave up on them after about level 30. Fast forward to about a month ago. I got to thinking to myself how stupid it was buying new armor, food, and stuff on the MB and how much money I was wasting so I decided to give crafting another go, since I don't do savage stuff as of yet and am caught up on stuff story wise.

I started off leveling my MNR and BTN to lvl 80 first. That way I could ALMOST be completely self sufficient. Sure I had to buy odds and ends here and there, but mostly if I needed it I could go gather it. Leveled ALL the crafting classes at once to level 20 then hit The Firmament! I did my crafter logs along the way and would go do their story quests when I had 3 or 4 of them "stocked up". Selling the crafting log stuff has funded my odds and ends and The Firmament (even though on Faerie it's over now) gives INSANE EXP! All my crafters are at 70 now (as of this morning) except CUL and FSH. I just started on FSH cause I didn't need it for any other class but CUL so I'm gonna hit those when I'm done with the others.

The Diadem makes it SOOOO simple. I make two circuits each with my MNR and BTN for whatever level script item I'm making, killing the crystals along the way for shards and stuff. Looked up a skybuilders crafting macro and basically put it on auto pilot while I watched You Tube! I also do the script collector items in the cities too of course for the gear and tool upgrades. Hopefully I'll have them knocked out by the end of the week in The Firmament now that I'm properly geared and melded to do the 60 and 70 scripts, cause that Pegasus mount is gonna be mine!!

TL;DR MNR/BTN to 80 first, then level crafters to 20 and hit The Firmament and hold on to your butt! Use your crafting log for sales on the MB to fund yourself.