Please equalize rewards between Castrum and Prae

Simple request. Getting tired of 3/4 of the raid quitting when they see Castrum. Either fix it or get rid of Castrum. Another way to fix it all is to let us skip cutscenes.

I'm leveling up and alt and I won't lie. I Prae fish on it. If I get castrum, I leave and go work on crafting until the penalty falls off. If Castrum's reward was doubled (still less than Prae), I wouldn't think fishing for Prae would be worth it. The deficit between these two dungeons currently is just too big. Praetorium is just too juicy of a chunk of exp not to aim for (It's nearly a full level when you're in the 70s).

Nah. Just make both solo duties and remove MSQ Roulette.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Nah. Just make both solo duties and remove MSQ Roulette.

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This one, thanks. Delete msq roulette entirely.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

This one, thanks. Delete msq roulette entirely.

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I mean, you don't HAVE to do it....


I'm all for advocating for change to make the final dungeons solo instances (they probably work better for new people that way), but acting like they are something you are forced to do and wanting them removed for that reason is just silly.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I mean, you don't HAVE to do it....


I'm all for advocating for change to make the final dungeons solo instances (they probably work better for new people that way), but acting like they are something you are forced to do and wanting them removed for that reason is just silly.

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Then we take another option. Make solo versions of both Prae and CM you go through for MSQ, and then make 4-man dungeon versions of both places that is quicker, only has the usual opening, boss intro, and victory cutscenes, and can be put into the regular 50/60/70 roulette.

CM would be to the first boss, then Cid would just take the armor and blast through the main door (skipping the garbage chute and all that) before the mech breaks down, then you just run dealing with adds to the 2nd boss, kill it, and Cid appears behind you to break the tower as you run back and reach the cannon/boss area, except you don't deal with cannon part of boss or the large amount of enemies and spotlights. With this, CM is trimmed.

Prae, keep the usual path, first boss is the same, remove the magitek side path with the normal run down the corridor to the Nero fight. After the Nero fight, have the elevator be you just fighting normal mobs until you reach the bottom (with it stopping each time mobs appear), and then fight Gaius in the Ultima Weapon room (he'd have new mechanics). There, we've fixed Prae for normal runs too.

Yes, I know this is a lot of work, but those two dungeons are a stain upon this game and must either be removed outside of solo instances, or redone so they can be normal dungeons that are easier to play through.

At this point as an all level 80 character player, I could live with either Castrum or Praetorium in Main Scenario Roulette because I'm already used to those unskippable cutscenes and I am content with the tome/gil reward I receive from completing them.

In addition, getting EX Primals too often with randoms in Mentor Roulette ultimately made me appreciate getting these two dungeons more that I should have. Keep in mind I have most Extreme Trials on farm when they were relevant/synced.

Equalize the rewards and everyone will just bail and be pissed off when they get the one that takes longer. The way they're doing it now is probably the most fair way they could handle it.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Equalize the rewards and everyone will just bail and be pissed off when they get the one that takes longer. The way they're doing it now is probably the most fair way they could handle it.

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Yeah pretty much this.
People would just fish for Castrum instead of Prae because of the length of cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Equalize the rewards and everyone will just bail and be pissed off when they get the one that takes longer. The way they're doing it now is probably the most fair way they could handle it.

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This was actually why they have differing rewards now. This used to be a thing lol...

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Then we take another option. Make solo versions of both Prae and CM you go through for MSQ, and then make 4-man dungeon versions of both places that is quicker, only has the usual opening, boss intro, and victory cutscenes, and can be put into the regular 50/60/70 roulette.

CM would be to the first boss, then Cid would just take the armor and blast through the main door (skipping the garbage chute and all that) before the mech breaks down, then you just run dealing with adds to the 2nd boss, kill it, and Cid appears behind you to break the tower as you run back and reach the cannon/boss area, except you don't deal with cannon part of boss or the large amount of enemies and spotlights. With this, CM is trimmed.

Prae, keep the usual path, first boss is the same, remove the magitek side path with the normal run down the corridor to the Nero fight. After the Nero fight, have the elevator be you just fighting normal mobs until you reach the bottom (with it stopping each time mobs appear), and then fight Gaius in the Ultima Weapon room (he'd have new mechanics). There, we've fixed Prae for normal runs too.

Yes, I know this is a lot of work, but those two dungeons are a stain upon this game and must either be removed outside of solo instances, or redone so they can be normal dungeons that are easier to play through.

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50/60/70 provides pathetic XP reward, which is a big reason why MSQ roulettes are run so much. As it is right now even lvling roulette provides better xp than CM (or so it feels). The only time CM feels "worth it" is for Tomestones.

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Originally Posted by Mahoukenshi

50/60/70 provides pathetic XP reward, which is a big reason why MSQ roulettes are run so much. As it is right now even lvling roulette provides better xp than CM (or so it feels). The only time CM feels "worth it" is for Tomestones.

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I usually run through Trials, Normal raid, Alliance and Leveling every day. Normal raid and Trials roulette don't give much, but they are usually quick. I could run MSQ roulette but...eh. I'm doing just fine without it. Only have 3 jobs left to level anyway, and I'm pretty far into two of them.

Unfortunately you'd get the opposite issue where people would hate running Prae over Castrum if they gave equal EXp since Prae is longer. Not saying that they perhaps couldn't be tightened up in terms of balance with exp to time spent, but they won't ever be the same amount of exp.

Also I dunno why people are actively calling for it to be turned into a solo instance. That might be the best thing for new players, but as far as veterans go you could simply not run it if you don't wanna spend the time. Dunno why you'd call for a source of exp to be removed.

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Originally Posted by Stepjam

Unfortunately you'd get the opposite issue where people would hate running Prae over Castrum if they gave equal EXp since Prae is longer. Not saying that they perhaps couldn't be tightened up in terms of balance with exp to time spent, but they won't ever be the same amount of exp.

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Right, but people are fishing for one instance anyway at the moment, so.....

If anything I'd still like Prae more since it gives me more time to watch one of my shows or play something on my Switch. lol

They’ve already deleted both dungeons via balance changes and absurd ilvl in the roulette. They’re cutscene galleries.

If they want to award players xp merely for watching cutscenes while Netflix has their attention, then add an xp bonus in the daily challenge log for watching something in the neverending journey.

There’s no need to wait for 7 other people at all to watch a cutscene.

Sir, a few things...

Equalizing rewards just swaps north and south poles mate.

Maxed players queue for that roulette despite having faster means to the same amount of tomes. Their reasons for doing so are their own, but those players will still prefer Castrum instead of Prae. Those players bailing for not getting Castrum is equally as frustrating, and the ones that remain are basically there for very little reward.

In addition, players who choke down Prae despite wanting Castrum for the tomes are in for it much longer than the reverse scenario. Might want to take that into consideration next time you get Castrum instead of Prae.

Some players need Castrum for progression. Forget about the devs making it a solo instance, or deleting the roulette.

It's a total coinflip. I believe only players directly queuing for the instance are given priority.

IOW. Working as intended.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Sir, a few things...

Equalizing rewards just swaps north and south poles mate.

Maxed players queue for that roulette despite having faster means to the same amount of tomes. Their reasons for doing so are their own, but those players will still prefer Castrum instead of Prae. Those players bailing for not getting Castrum is equally as frustrating, and the ones that remain are basically there for very little reward.

In addition, players who choke down Prae despite wanting Castrum for the tomes are in for it much longer than the reverse scenario. Might want to take that into consideration next time you get Castrum instead of Prae.

Some players need Castrum for progression. Forget about the devs making it a solo instance, or deleting the roulette.

It's a total coinflip. I believe only players directly queuing for the instance are given priority.

IOW. Working as intended.

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Keep in mind there are other players (such as myself) that will queue boost an fc mate into the roulette as a tank or healer and ditch at the door.

Instapop for the fc mate, I dodge the penalty for staying there (30 minute timeout from df is nothing in comparison), and I can run off and do my beastmen dailies, gold saucer stuff, hunts, or blue carnival while they suffer through unskippable cutscenes.

Even if the party collapses, my fc mate still gets fill priority in the (now open) instance, and due to the pathetic balance of said instance they can clear without waiting for the party to fill to capacity.

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Originally Posted by Hausti

Yeah pretty much this.
People would just fish for Castrum instead of Prae because of the length of cutscenes.

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I honestly don't think so. Or at least, it would be far more muted than people fishing for Prae are atm.

Think about it. Castrum takes around 20-25 minutes to complete, prae about 45-50. Fishing for castrum would basically be pointless since they'd waste more time leaving the Praetorium run, waiting 30 minutes, re-queue (which if you're not tank/healer, could be long), zone in, and then gamble on a 50/50 chance that they get castrum (which if they lost, means they would have to leave and waste another 30 mins for penalty). The 30min penalty + the time it takes to complete castrum if they got lucky on their first re-attempt is already is as long as a Prae run...for the same reward.

Sure, it would suck if you got Prae, but it would actually be faster to just do the Prae run then leave and try to gamble at 50/50's on top of queue time.

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Originally Posted by MariaArvana

I honestly don't think so. Or at least, it would be far more muted than people fishing for Prae are atm.

Think about it. Castrum takes around 20-25 minutes to complete, prae about 45-50. Fishing for castrum would basically be pointless since they'd waste more time leaving the Praetorium run, waiting 30 minutes, re-queue (which if you're not tank/healer, could be long), zone in, and then gamble on a 50/50 chance that they get castrum (which if they lost, means they would have to leave and waste another 30 mins for penalty). The 30min penalty + the time it takes to complete castrum if they got lucky on their first re-attempt is already is as long as a Prae run...for the same reward.

Sure, it would suck if you got Prae, but it would actually be faster to just do the Prae run then leave and try to gamble at 50/50's on top of queue time.

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This only really holds true if people sat around doing nothing during the 30 minute penalty, which I'm guessing no one does.

During the 30 minute penalty you can get something else done, in game or outside of the game; so the penalty is null. You're not actually losing time you're just reorganizing it. If you stick with Prae, however, you're physically stuck in MSQ for an extra 30 minutes for the exact same reward as Castrum; so you lose that 30 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

This only really holds true if people sat around doing nothing during the 30 minute penalty, which I'm guessing no one does.

During the 30 minute penalty you can get something else done, in game or outside of the game; so the penalty is null. You're not actually losing time you're just reorganizing it. If you stick with Prae, however, you're physically stuck in MSQ for an extra 30 minutes for the exact same reward as Castrum; so you lose that 30 minutes.

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You also however get more free time in Prae due to the cutscenes. I've cooked an entire meal from scratch while doing Prae, just because the cutscenes are that long.

Take out Ultima Weapon as a standalone trial, then Prae and Castrum should be a similar length.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

They’ve already deleted both dungeons via balance changes and absurd ilvl in the roulette. They’re cutscene galleries.

If they want to award players xp merely for watching cutscenes while Netflix has their attention, then add an xp bonus in the daily challenge log for watching something in the neverending journey.

There’s no need to wait for 7 other people at all to watch a cutscene.

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It doesn't exist to award exp for watching cutscenes.
It exists to fill queues so that newbies aren't waiting 3 days for the queue to fill.
The exp is the incentive.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

It doesn't exist to award exp for watching cutscenes.
It exists to fill queues so that newbies aren't waiting 3 days for the queue to fill.
The exp is the incentive.

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naturally, deleting msq roulette means they need to correct their mistakes with these instances. They’ve already removed the fights, so let the cutscenes play back to back in a trust dungeon for new players.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I mean, you don't HAVE to do it....


I'm all for advocating for change to make the final dungeons solo instances (they probably work better for new people that way), but acting like they are something you are forced to do and wanting them removed for that reason is just silly.

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This. I stopped doing it and I feel great about it.

I didn’t ever ‘hate’ doing it but after seeing them both hundreds of times and knowing the lines off the top of my head I just decided to take a break from it and never went back.

It might be good, or in the case of Prae great XP, but there’s other ways to level and to get tomestones. Now I play to have fun.

You're never going to get them to let you skip cutscenes again.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

Simple request. Getting tired of 3/4 of the raid quitting when they see Castrum. Either fix it or get rid of Castrum.

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It's done the way it is because of the time consumed to finish both of them. Praetorium is longer so it gives more exp, Castrum takes less so it gives less. I won't be against the rewards being even, but there's technically nothing to "fix" so I'm not sure they will do it. Shouldn't hurt if it happens, though, and also shouldn't be hard to do either , so at this point it's just the matter of the demand.

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Another way to fix it all is to let us skip cutscenes.

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Looking as you joined forum in 2019 I'm assuming you started playing not much earlier (can be wrong as somebody who joined forum more than a year after starting playing). Cutscenes were skippable in the past. This game's playerbase's toxic attitude towards new players became exactly the reason why it was changed and now they are unskippable. Thank the gang that was kicking players from dungeon if they wanted to watch cutscenes and kept saying "watch it in the inn" even though new players deserved to watch it right in the dungeon just as we did when the game came out.

The only thing that can change it is DevTeam expanding the Trust system to old expansions so new players could run said dungeons in Story Mode with NPCs at the pace they want. It can happen as, if I recall it correct, Yoshida did say they want to include old dungeons in Trust system as well, but I won't hold my hopes high on that happening in any foreseeable future.


Also, to clarify, the MSQ Roulette exists solely for seasoned players to help new players clear these instances so they could proceed with the story, because without it it took too much time for newbies to wait their queue. The reward for it (which was seriously upgraded with cutscenes becoming unskippable) is a compensation for the time you spend there. Same goes for Leveling and Allaince roulette as well, for example (sweet 5 hours queues to the Labyrinth on Tank flashbacks mmmm), and, to an extend, for all the other Roulettes. It's there to keep old content alive. You aren't forced to do them if you don't want to. If you need to farm your weekly tokens, running last patch dungeon two-three times will be faster.

They shouldn't equalize or delete them. They just need to buff the exp rewards from castrum to not feel like eating the 40min video experience is just objectively better.

If you don't need to level alts or alt jobs, then it doesn't matter for you anyway. The tome argument is kind of silly when you're capped by thursday.

Never saw this happen on my server, even if 1 or 2 ppl leave the refill pretty fast and you dont need all 8 members anyway. Also Castrum only takes half of the time, so its only reasonable that the rewards are lower. If you don't like it, don't do it.

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Originally Posted by Missbone

Never saw this happen on my server, even if 1 or 2 ppl leave the refill pretty fast and you dont need all 8 members anyway. Also Castrum only takes half of the time, so its only reasonable that the rewards are lower. If you don't like it, don't do it.

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I really wish this was the case. We had one of the worst cases of this yesterday. One of the tanks insta-dipped, then the 2nd bailed and we spend the next 10 minutes gaining and losing tanks and dps until one of the original dps requeued as a tank. All told we lost 6-8 players because CM's payoff is that bad.

I should start reporting people that insta-bail on CM.

There needs to be a better source of XP for levelling alt-jobs that isn't grinding PotD/HoH/Bozja or the one or two dungeons worth running at your level.

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Originally Posted by GeminiReed

I really wish this was the case. We had one of the worst cases of this yesterday. One of the tanks insta-dipped, then the 2nd bailed and we spend the next 10 minutes gaining and losing tanks and dps until one of the original dps requeued as a tank. All told we lost 6-8 players because CM's payoff is that bad.

I should start reporting people that insta-bail on CM.

There needs to be a better source of XP for levelling alt-jobs that isn't grinding PotD/HoH/Bozja or the one or two dungeons worth running at your level.

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You can run though without a tank though. Ilvl bloat makes it easy.

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Originally Posted by Missbone

Never saw this happen on my server, even if 1 or 2 ppl leave the refill pretty fast and you dont need all 8 members anyway. Also Castrum only takes half of the time, so its only reasonable that the rewards are lower. If you don't like it, don't do it.

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But THIS much lower? As it is, Castrum doesn't even grant 50% of the total xp and isn't that much better than lvling roulette, which can theoretically be completed even faster. Praetorium gives 75, 80% of total xp? Dunno, but buffing CMs XP gain to at least 50% or 60% wouldn't make Praetorium instantly less attractive.

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Originally Posted by Mahoukenshi

But THIS much lower? As it is, Castrum doesn't even grant 50% of the total xp and isn't that much better than lvling roulette, which can theoretically be completed even faster. Praetorium gives 75, 80% of total xp? Dunno, but buffing CMs XP gain to at least 50% or 60% wouldn't make Praetorium instantly less attractive.

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I agree.
The rewards being uneven is fine, but they should really be higher. Maybe then I'd be tempted to do them. Maybe then it'd feel less like I'm wasting an hour.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

Simple request. Getting tired of 3/4 of the raid quitting when they see Castrum. Either fix it or get rid of Castrum. Another way to fix it all is to let us skip cutscenes.

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Then everyone will leave The Praetorium because they want Castrum Meridianum due to it being shorter.

In my opinion, the best thing to do would be to convert them to either solo duties or trust dungeons, then remove the Main Story roulette from the game. Perhaps take out the final 2 battles in Praetorium and convert them to a Trial encounter.

I had hoped that with the advent of Trust NPCs, that CM and Prae would be high on the list for getting a solo adaptation. With seven NPCs at your back, newbies would be free to watch cutscenes at their leisure. They could then remove the cutscene lock on the multiplayer version - or simply remove the Roulette entirely.

I feel like that would satisfy both camps. Mostly. You'd probably still have a few newbies who want to do the eight-player dungeon with other humans, but ALSO want those other humans to cater to their pace (including cutscene watching), but you can't please everyone.

Sadly, Trusts have so far only been for new content. I do hope they adapt it for the older stuff, eventually, however.

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Originally Posted by Mahoukenshi

But THIS much lower? As it is, Castrum doesn't even grant 50% of the total xp and isn't that much better than lvling roulette, which can theoretically be completed even faster. Praetorium gives 75, 80% of total xp? Dunno, but buffing CMs XP gain to at least 50% or 60% wouldn't make Praetorium instantly less attractive.

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The rewards are already too high for the content in question.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

This only really holds true if people sat around doing nothing during the 30 minute penalty, which I'm guessing no one does.

During the 30 minute penalty you can get something else done, in game or outside of the game; so the penalty is null. You're not actually losing time you're just reorganizing it. If you stick with Prae, however, you're physically stuck in MSQ for an extra 30 minutes for the exact same reward as Castrum; so you lose that 30 minutes.

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Time To clear is longer for Prae but you actually get way more 'free time' during Prae than Castrum.
I know many people who prefer Prae even for tome farming due to being able to work from home, study, play another game ect.

Ultiimately time to clear matters so I feel Prae should award a superior bonus to Castrum, but the gap is simply too large for exp at the moment.
Even if Castrum's bonus exp was increased somwhat I guarantee you wouldn't see an influx of people fishing for Castrum.

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Originally Posted by Krojack

Then everyone will leave The Praetorium because they want Castrum Meridianum due to it being shorter.

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Not if you factor in the 30 minute penalty. OTOH it might foster certain behaviors to fish for a kick. But that'll only work if you're kicked within the first 15-20 minutes and get an instapop on requeue.

I agree with the others who said to turn it into a trust dungeon or solo instance and delete the roulette. The mobs are soloable and the bosses aren't even that difficult. It takes you what two minutes to beat the first version of ultima because you have to wait for the Hydaelyn buff, a minute to beat the second version of ultima, and thirty seconds to deal with lahabread with another thiry seconds while he goes through all his dumb dialogue before you leave. Not very amazing for the new players and pretty much a waste of time for the people queing for those sweet sweet tomes and exp.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Equalize the rewards and everyone will just bail and be pissed off when they get the one that takes longer. The way they're doing it now is probably the most fair way they could handle it.

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When I posted this we ended up doing 50% of the raid with NO tank. It took 5 min to reform the group when 3/4 of the raid ended up quiting the moment they saw Castrum. I ended up tanking with heal aggro on my white mage alt until a tank finally decided to stay.

So something that SHOULD be shorter then Prae was far far longer and this is not the first time.

Just turn Castrum into a solo instance and then have Prae as the only option. This current system has been and continues to be frustrating when there is an obvious solution.