can we tone down the difficulty on foods and pots a little?

So, last patch I think things sort of hit this happy medium where it was not really that bad to craft end-game food and tinctures for doing raids. There was no need to be penta-melded or depend on some magical proc happening to make it happen.

Now we get to 5.4, the difficulty increase happens on all the crafts including expendable items. Like, really? On items that we burn through every week, those should be as painful to make as a piece of high grade housing furniture or the top end of the ishgard restoration crafting stuff for points?

I mean this isn't about nerfing crafting difficulty across the board, I just think that if something is making expendable items, and you need to make a LOT of them, it is probably worth it to not make them a pain to produce.

The reason it was easier at the start was because crafters were still just getting to 80 and getting their gear. Some people make crafting their endgame, and there's already contention on how nerfed crafting has become overall.

I think it's fine that making pots can just be too much to bother with for some people. It gives dedicated crafters their niche and doesn't cheapen the already dulled crafting jobs.

I feel like the reason things were at a place that didn't require pentamelding to make raid consumables last patch is that we got Aesthete gear (crafter/gatherer stuff targeted/balanced for this tier) but we were still crafting the consumables for last tier.

Which, to use a combat analogy, is like saying that "I think Eden's Verse savage finally hit a happy medium this patch, because it isn't really so bad anymore once you're wearing i510 or better". I mean... yes, you are correct; if you are doing Eden's Verse with Eden's Promise gear, Verse is going to be easier than when it was current.

I feel like raid consumables from last tier were definitely less of a breeze when they landed in 5.2 and people were still using Facet crafter gear.

I'd def like it if they were easier.
I picked up ALC to craft pots for my raid group, but they're so difficult to make I'd rather just spend that time progging more and getting better at the fight.
In some ways it makes sense. It's a way for DoH and combat classes to work together better. If any raider could make their own pots it wouldn't be as much of the two groups helping each other out.
But you go through so many pots... so many pots that buying them all is a very hard ask, even with gil being so available in this game.
I'm in an FC with a pretty serious crafter. They got one of the big Firmament titles last ranking season (#2 on the board) and they agree with me that they're just... too much of a pain for the volume you consume.

I'm more bugged by how long it takes to craft potions in bulk.

Being able to expend more materials to produce them in lots of 10 instead of 3 would be a welcome change.

While I do agree somewhat, you also have to factor in the ease of acquisition of the mats for food and pots in comparison to crafting gear for your character, or for sale. Meals and pots tend to not require intermediary mats that also need to be crafted, while gear tends to take mostly intermediary mats. The yield on intermediary mats are almost always x1, while food and pots are x3, and ready for immediate consumption.

Be that is it may, it is still a lot of steps to craft food and pots of the highest ilv and also HQ them. What I would like to see done with consumables is the ability to increase yields by dumping more mats into the recipe. If it requires x2 of blah, and x5 of rawr for a yield of x3 BOOM!, I would like to toss in x10 of blah and x25 of rawr to increase that yield to x15 BOOM! from a single synthesis.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

lBe that is it may, it is still a lot of steps to craft food and pots of the highest ilv and also HQ them. What I would like to see done with consumables is the ability to increase yields by dumping more mats into the recipe. If it requires x2 of blah, and x5 of rawr for a yield of x3 BOOM!, I would like to toss in x10 of blah and x25 of rawr to increase that yield to x15 BOOM! from a single synthesis.

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That would make a lot of sense.

At a guess, the crafting system probably isn't directly set up to let you do that, but they could probably add a separate recipe called "BOOM bulk recipe" and have that recipe call for more ingredients and produce more output. They could even tweak it to be a bit harder or require a bit more than 5x the ingredients for 5x the product to compensate for the time saved.

Unless there's some issue with the same class having two different recipes that produce the same finished item, maybe.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Being able to expend more materials to produce them in lots of 10 instead of 3 would be a welcome change.

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Now this is a welcome big brain idea here.

I do see your point but slightly disagree. I always look at it as they are one of our ways to make a profit from our expensive gear and if everyone could make them easily then the market would die. We can only make gear once so pots and things sustain us going forward. The market is already low as it is due to people making them for statics and too many pentamelded crafters, so to make it even easier they’d just become not worth making.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

I do see your point but slightly disagree. I always look at it as they are one of our ways to make a profit from our expensive gear and if everyone could make them easily then the market would die. We can only make gear once so pots and things sustain us going forward. The market is already low as it is due to people making them for statics and too many pentamelded crafters, so to make it even easier they’d just become not worth making.

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That should read only sell gear to you once :)

My only request of them would be I’m pentamelded, max aesthete with capped cp and near cap control. To do 50 crafts for potions/foods it takes me nearly an hour and the only reason I don’t have to use a cp potion for rotations is because I have them as specialist classes. Even with all of that, I still can’t go 0-100 hq. I NEED at least one HQ base mat and even then it’s rng if any of my touch actions fall on a poor. I melded all of my gear this high to avoid needing HQ base as much as possible and there’s no way to bridge that gap with stats now.

when it comes to consumables like food/pots, and their usage, id like to recommend not using the best food/pots in early practice. use lower tier stuff, until your group can reliably get to enrage. once there, THEN start using the better food/pots.

We've had time to pentameld since August so the difficulty should not be the issue. Food and pot recipes are the same difficulty as the new gear recipes. It's more annoying how much time it takes to craft consumables.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

when it comes to consumables like food/pots, and their usage, id like to recommend not using the best food/pots in early practice. use lower tier stuff, until your group can reliably get to enrage. once there, THEN start using the better food/pots.

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It does take an eternity to craft 4-star food and pots. The problem with 3-star is the recipes are similar like you still are using lilies to make mind 3-star or 4-star pots. So you might as well make the 4-star.

There are also nuances like we need some minimum HQ to guarantee 100% for most people, or a job not being a specialist means I have to eat food and a syrup. The hoops are annoying compared to the past.

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Originally Posted by technole

It does take an eternity to craft 4-star food and pots. The problem with 3-star is the recipes are similar like you still are using lilies to make mind 3-star or 4-star pots. So you might as well make the 4-star.

There are also nuances like we need some minimum HQ to guarantee 100% for most people, or a job not being a specialist means I have to eat food and a syrup. The hoops are annoying compared to the past.

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i've got pentamelded aesthete's + skysung, and i can craft potions using Chili Crab HQ without specialist or syrup with both the aethersand and plant HQ (and aethersand is almost always going to be HQ after the reduction changes), and food with Matcha HQ with only 3-4 HQ mats. it's currently impossible to 0-100 with a macro, though, and i get the feeling that's intentional.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I'm more bugged by how long it takes to craft potions in bulk.

Being able to expend more materials to produce them in lots of 10 instead of 3 would be a welcome change.

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I think an all or nothing approach would be one way to fix it. Decreasing difficulty on the expendables in specific would be the other option that doesn't really kill the time requirement. It's mostly just feels like a tweak is needed. I suppose this might be to balance the whole thing out and force people who do savage to depend on crafters, but it feels like a lot of dedicated savage raiders are omni-crafters already due to needing the gear on day 1, so now that I think on it tweaking the difficulty down a peg on consumables would do nothing to really make them less valuable.